Re: [ros-dev] New ideas added to GSoC Ideas list

[Rafał Harabień]

Do we really need custom layouts for languages? Wine is handling it
somehow by making labels/buttons big enough. Cant we do it the same way
if we don't need pixel perfect positioning?

W dniu 15.03.2017 o 21:21, Mark Jansen pisze:
>   Well,
>
>  I was thinking a sort of 'hybrid' approach:
>  We have a generic resource 'template' file (english?), that is used
>  for strings / dialogs.
>  Then each translation will have it's .po file.
>  Translations that need a different dialog layout create a new 'template' file.
>
>  To build this, we will need an extra pre-process step (like we do for
>  utf16 .inf files), to combine the resource template and .po file into
>  a real resource file.
>
>  This saves developers from having to edit 30 resource files when
>  altering one dialog.
>
>
>
>
>  On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 1:52 AM, Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO
>  <hermes.belusca(a)sfr.fr> wrote:
> >   I’m sorry but I should remind you that we
> > *already* have *MANY* apps & dlls
> >  (not from Wine) where dialog layouts are already different for different
> >  locales, examples being for French and German languages (amongst others)
> >  where having adapted sizes for buttons, static text controls, … are
> >  mandatory, because these languages use frequently long words, etc… . So it’s
> >  clear we will never go back to a single layout that is shared between
> >  different locales.
> >
> >
> >
> >  I should reassure you however, that we don’t care at all about
> >  “pixel-perfect layout compatibility with windows”.
> >
> >
> >
> >  A suggestion then, would be to have a resource editor, that can display
> >  nicely, for a given dialog ID, all the (possibly only the selected ones)
> >  different dialogs of the different languages, in e.g. mosaic positioning,
> >  which should help the translator to easily see whether he needs to adapt a
> >  layout for a given language, or whether he can just copy/paste an existing
> >  layout.
> >
> >
> >
> >  Hermès.
> >
> >
> >
> >  De : Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]] De la part de Rafal
> >  Harabien
> >  Envoyé : mardi 14 mars 2017 23:44
> >  À : ReactOS Development List
> >  Objet : Re: [ros-dev] New ideas added to GSoC Ideas list
> >
> >
> >
> >  PO files supports "context" markers to make it possible to differentiate
> >  usage of the same string in different contexts.
> >  About different layout - yes, we would have only one layout but IMO for
> >  project like this with human resource problems its more important to make
> >  development less boring and easier to maintain than to customize dialogs for
> >  every locale without significant profit. If project treats pixel-perfect
> >  layout compatibility with windows as requirement it would be a problem but I
> >  don't think ROS needs it.  We already import multiple dialogs from Wine...
> >
> >
> >  W dniu 14.03.2017 o 23:29, David Quintana (gigaherz) pisze:
> >
> >  Gettext-style translations are really really bad, because they use the
> >  original text (usually in english) as a translation key, which means they
> >  simply can not handle situations where the same english text needs different
> >  translations depending on where the text is used. And yes, I have come
> >  across that issue once upon a time.
> >
> >  You are right that editing a dialog is annoying, but due to the way win32
> >  resource dialogs work, it's unavoidable. Even if we could have a serpate
> >  file for reaching the translations, there's often the situation where
> >  certain languages need different layouts, or at least different control
> >  sizes, to accomodate for longer / taller text, or RTL. So even if we
> >  switched to a different system, that annoyance wouldn't go away.
> >
> >  I do agree that it would be nice to have some nicer tool for translators,
> >  but IMO, .po files are not it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  On 14 March 2017 at 23:14, Rafał Harabień <rafalh(a)reactos.org> wrote:
> >
> >  In my opinion it's very sensible proposal. I remember changing  dialog
> >  layout in resources was a big pain because of amount of repeated work
> >  for all languages (and error prone). It was demotivating.
> >  On the other hand there are free translation platforms making project
> >  translation more organized and easier than editing raw resources. WINE
> >  is using PO for years and ReactOS IMO should do it as well.
> >  Just my two cents...
> >
> >  W dniu 14.03.2017 o 14:31, Ștefan Fulea pisze:
> >
> > >   Marți, 14 martie 2017 12:00:02 +0000, Mark
> > > Jansen
> > >  <learn0more+ros(a)gmail.com> a scris:
> > > >   How about a better way to translate ros?
> > > >  For example integrating .po files with our rc files (possibly needs a
> > > >  preprocess step or something tho),
> > > >  Or creating a resource editor that allows multiple files to be edited
> > > >  at once?
> > > >  
> > >  Please don't push for .po resources, for these are not better. As for
> > >  improving the process, I doubt it'd repay the investment. After the
> > >  initial translation effort, the further maintenance requires very
> > >  little.
> > >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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