Adam... ReactOS will not be Win Vista/7 ;)<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 8:05 PM, Adam <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:geekdundee@gmail.com">geekdundee@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
And what about people with computers older than 2007 and/or people who do not want to (and/or cannot) pay $$$ for an upgrade and/or people who do not want to install an operating system that takes up 15GB of disk space?<div>
<div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 03:59:46 +1000, Alex Ionescu &lt;<a href="mailto:ionucu@videotron.ca" target="_blank">ionucu@videotron.ca</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Update to Windows Vista+, which has KTM.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Best regards,<br>
Alex Ionescu<br>
<br>
On 2011-06-04, at 10:21 AM, Adam wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
A number of times (eg. .NET install/AV install) I have had it happen at the end of the install. Then when I attempt to uninstall it there are errors produced regarding it (often not just after a fresh install of Windows; I mean after using the computer for some time - particularly after updating Windows Installer) then it makes the product difficult (if not impossible) to uninstall.<br>

<br>
On Sun, 05 Jun 2011 00:07:44 +1000, Zachary Gorden &lt;<a href="mailto:drakekaizer666@gmail.com" target="_blank">drakekaizer666@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
And how many times does the database get corrupted?  I&#39;ve never run into it<br>
and the conditions that would cause a corruption would equally screw any<br>
other installer, since it would have to be a run that got interrupted<br>
mid-install.<br>
<br>
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 8:58 AM, Adam &lt;<a href="mailto:geekdundee@gmail.com" target="_blank">geekdundee@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Next will you be suggesting for people to use MMC snapins as opposed to<br>
writing standalone applications, because it is shitty standalone<br>
applications that do things and not MMC?<br>
<br>
You can use WIX/MSI to write shitty installers too if I am not mistaken.<br>
I&#39;ve seen brilliant NSIS/InstallShield installers and shitty MSI installers.<br>
And vice versa.<br>
<br>
As an end-user I must say MSI also tends to piss me off, particularly when<br>
the database gets corrupted and what not. Good concept though, but I<br>
question the way it is implemented. I have written about what I think about<br>
MSI in another mail so no need for me to repeat myself.<br>
<br>
But what I am trying to suggest is that shitty installers will be shitty<br>
installers. You can write shitty installers in<br>
SuperDuperUltraInstallerLanguageSoGoodItIsGuaranteedToMakeOtherInstallersShitTheirPantsAndGoBankrupt<br>
and they will still be shitty installers.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, 04 Jun 2011 23:49:26 +1000, Alex Ionescu &lt;<a href="mailto:ionucu@videotron.ca" target="_blank">ionucu@videotron.ca</a>&gt;<br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Oh, I do believe shitty software/installers do this.<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Microsoft&#39;s technologies do not, however.<br>
<br>
So use WIX/MSI, not NSI/InstallShield.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Best regards,<br>
Alex Ionescu<br>
<br>
On 2011-06-04, at 9:23 AM, Kamil Hornicek wrote:<br>
<br>
I&#39;m in charge of 40+ PCs running mostly XP at work. Believe me when I<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
tell you people do write their own code (or use the available API<br>
incorrectly) for installers or some online activation bullshit. I came<br>
across several installers/apps that were unable to detect or use our proxy<br>
(we also use wpad for proxy autodiscovery via dns) and I always had to<br>
connect that PC directly to our gateway to make stuff install which is<br>
annoying as hell. I am not making this up, pay me a visit if you think<br>
otherwise.<br>
<br>
K.<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: &quot;Alex Ionescu&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ionucu@videotron.ca" target="_blank">ionucu@videotron.ca</a>&gt;<br>
To: &quot;ReactOS Development List&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ros-dev@reactos.org" target="_blank">ros-dev@reactos.org</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 8:20 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] 1294 [dreimer] Fix clean for cmake trees. ...<br>
<br>
<br>
Again all of this is irrelevant: since I think you are a Linux user, I<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
can understand why you are confused.<br>
<br>
On Windows, all HTTP communication is done by WinHTTP and/or WinINET,<br>
nobody writes their own custom socket code.<br>
<br>
WinHTTP/WinINET control the proxy settings for the machine. In fact, if<br>
you use Google Chrome on Windows (or Safari) and go to the proxy/connection<br>
settings, you will see &quot;IE&#39;s&quot; proxy connection dialog --  because these<br>
settings/dialog are owned by the OS Library, not the individual<br>
applications.<br>
<br>
Therefore, the installer will use 100% the same settings as the web<br>
browser, including the same protocol.<br>
<br>
So, as I stated, if the browser can download foo.exe, so will the online<br>
installer.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Best regards,<br>
Alex Ionescu<br>
<br>
On 2011-06-03, at 1:50 PM, Kamil Hornicek wrote:<br>
<br>
whatever you use for downloading the installer has to be configured to<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
connect throught the proxy and also to use its dns services for host name<br>
resolving. if the installer itself isn&#39;t aware of the need for proxy server<br>
(or is not able to connect through socks or whatever the proxy uses) it<br>
won&#39;t be usually able to resolve the hostname it&#39;s trying to connect to<br>
(depends on the exact network configuration). also the default route to the<br>
internet would be missing or direct outgoing connections would be blocked<br>
(which they usually are otherwise you wouldn&#39;t be forced to use the proxy<br>
server in the first place) so the traffic generated by the installer<br>
wouldn&#39;t have any means to reach its destination.<br>
<br>
I didn&#39;t want to derail the discussion and I apologize for that. I&#39;ll<br>
shut up next time.<br>
<br>
Kamil<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: &quot;Alex Ionescu&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ionucu@videotron.ca" target="_blank">ionucu@videotron.ca</a><br>
&gt;<br>
To: &quot;ReactOS Development List&quot; &lt;<a href="mailto:ros-dev@reactos.org" target="_blank">ros-dev@reactos.org</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 7:03 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] 1294 [dreimer] Fix clean for cmake trees. ...<br>
<br>
<br>
Since online installers use HTTP, and the user got the installer off<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
HTTP, what would a proxy server change?<br>
<br>
--<br>
Best regards,<br>
Alex Ionescu<br>
<br>
On 2011-06-03, at 12:33 PM, Kamil Hornicek wrote:<br>
<br>
I didn&#39;t want to spam this discussion but I have to.. What every<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
other software company also does is refusing to believe someone might be<br>
behind a proxy server. If you go this way, please make sure the installer<br>
doesn&#39;t need a direct connection. Also online installers are generally a<br>
major pain in the ass if you don&#39;t provide an offline installer too.<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Ionescu<br>
To: ReactOS Development List<br>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2011 5:56 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] 1294 [dreimer] Fix clean for cmake trees. ...<br>
<br>
<br>
Why separate installers for x64/ARM?<br>
<br>
<br>
Just do what every software company this side of the century does: a<br>
400kb installer which lets you select the packages you want, and downloads<br>
them.<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Best regards,<br>
Alex Ionescu<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2011-06-03, at 11:38 AM, Zachary Gorden wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
Spoke with Amine and Daniel.  I&#39;ve agreed to the lesser evil of<br>
bundling the FULL cmake.  Reasons are if we want the BE to be flexible<br>
enough to be used for more than just building ROS, we can&#39;t gimp cmake with<br>
the belief that no one will need the things we didn&#39;t include. This is again<br>
on Windows.  I remain uninvolved with decisions about the Linux BE.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 10:34 AM, Colin Finck &lt;<a href="mailto:colin@reactos.org" target="_blank">colin@reactos.org</a>&gt;<br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Timo Kreuzer &lt;<a href="mailto:timo.kreuzer@web.de" target="_blank">timo.kreuzer@web.de</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
My vote on this:<br>
CMake: bundle it, optional on installation<br>
x64/arm: create individual installers<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
* CMake: bundle it, go for the (minimal) version without an<br>
installer. It&#39;s nothing &quot;exotic&quot; to install after all, just put it together<br>
with the other utilities in RosBE.<br>
<br>
* x64/arm: If build tool sizes are staying like this, create<br>
individual installers. Just for testing, I&#39;ll try an x86/x64 multilib build<br>
of Binutils and GCC though, would be nice to know how much smaller it is<br>
compared to separate x86 and x64 compilers.<br>
<br>
So in general, I agree with Timo :-)<br>
<br>
<br>
- Colin<br>
<br>
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