Steven Edwards wrote:
Hi,
If its a Windows System Dll then running it on Wine gains you nothing except people being lazy and not coding a proper replacement. Using this logic Wine should implement 8 layers of abstraction
Linux Kernel Crypto APIs->Ksecdd.sys->emulated syscall magic->advapi32.systemfunction->crypt.dll->rsabase.dll->???
The best solution would be to follow that, yes, but I concede that it is not in WINE's best interests. Nevertheless, they will eventually suffer from not doing it that way. Look at how much stuff had to be done for apps like Safedisc, which required WINE to implement a completely emulated kernel-mode driver layer.
If I am a Linux developer trying to make a API replacement as a migration tool I am going to make the crypt.dll and rsabase.dll be a wraper for a exported kernel API or use openssl, tinyssl or whatever else and save my time. Why? Because I want to have all Linux native applications. I could give 2 shits about following the precious Windows design for everything because ultimatly my end goal it to have native Linux applications not some bloated compatiblity layer.
Ok, so you're saying that crypt.dll should directly call some linux native openssl library... that makes sense. Now, what if 5 other exported, publically used dlls also need to call SystemFunction007? They will also have to call some linux native openssl library. Now, if that library is included statically, you've bloated 5 DLLs. If it's simply an external lib, then how much harder is it to stub SystemFunction007 to call the openssl library? That is 10 lines of adtionnal code, with the added benefit that if anyone ever calls that undocumented export, you can handle it. But in reality, even that would be flawed, because I do agree that ksecdd.sys should actually be called if needed. Now you're going to call me crazy and say that's even beyond undocumented, plus it's kernel mode. Go ahead and laugh... I happen to have a copy of the WDK, and you'd be "pleased" to know that the KSECDD APIs are becoming documented. What if some of ksecdd are just regular IOCTLs that a user-mode app like safedisc would launch? You'd probably hack ksecdd to use openssl as well... but now you're having a duplicated design, where crypt is using openssl, advapi006 is not implemented, and ksecdd is also using openssl. Nice waste! If it would've been done properly since the start, you assure full compatibility. What happens when MS documents the SystemFunctionsXXX, like they've done with GdiEntryXXX? You scramble to implement the functions and tell yourself "Shit, I should've accepted that patch last year!"
It is a totally different mindset and if we want to share some code we have to work around that. Some things might not be shared. Big deal.
It's not like WINE developers were forced or had to spend time to write these functions, one of our developers did (and he submited patches to WINE). What possible -harm- can it do?
No thats the point. Our developers ARE NOT SENDING PATCHES TO WINE AS A GENERAL RULE.
Well that's a big problem then, and we should have a serious discussion with those developers, as well as ensure that we don't allow commits to WINE libs if we don't see a patch first.
Right. Show me a real world application that calls all of the advapi32.systemfunction apis and I might agree with you. I know of one that does in totally violation of all of the rules and breaks on version of Windows to another. Ditto for the undocumented Setupapi functions which by the way Change from one version of Windows to another. Compare Windows 2000 setupapi.stringtable* to Windows XP/2K3 setupapi.pstringtable functions. They are exported under a totally different name and to date I have only found 1 application that uses them and yes it is a OS COMPONATE as defined by the EULA.
I concede on that extremly weird and unused API, but you're using that case as a justification not to implement *ANY* unimplemented APIs, aren't you? NtDeleteFile is undocumented too... should we forget about it? My apologies if you were only referring to setupapi.
Thanks Steven
Best regards, Alex Ionescu