Alex Ionescu wrote:
Gunnar Dalsnes wrote:
The list macros are widely used in both Wine (4 different macros) and in the linux kernel http://www.gelato.unsw.edu.au/~dsw/public-files/kernel-docs/kernel-api/r802.... (i counted 16 different list walking macros).
I hope the Linux Kernel won't ever become an example of how an NT micro-kernel shoudl be written..
Using macros or not really has nothing to do with the kernel design... Its about the people who code.
A googled for a while looking for similar discussions about using such macros or not, but found none...
Really? Let me point you to some of the famous threads by our Microsoft friends, including some of their most distinguished engineers:
http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/archive/2004/12/01/273160.aspx
"
Larry: You said Macros work to hide the complexity and say so likeit is a bad thing.. ? Excuse me but I thought that was the POINT of using a Macro..
Actually, in the world in which I live (writing systems programs that exist in the working set of hundreds of millions of users), hiding complexity is a very, very bad thing.
You need to be VERY careful whenever you do something that hides complexity, because it's likely to come back and bite you on the behind."
Also: "Rules of software engineering" touches on this: http://blogs.msdn.com/larryosterman/archive/2004/04/06/108686.aspx
This is not directly related to using list macros. I hate generic banning: "gotos considered harmful". bah... Also, for being careful, id say that the fact that Linux and Wine have used list macros extensively for ages and it works well, thats a pretty good pointer.
Seems like people who hate macros are the people who are drawn to reactos.
Seems like people who hate macros are the people who are drawn to NT, too. I'm glad 99.9% of the developers here are on that line of though.
I dont know what this means but it surely is weird. I hope it doesnt mean that reactos coders are too stupid to learn macros;-P
Yeah, go tell Larry Osterman he's too stupid to learn a macro.
The problem with MS and macros i can guess is: for foss projects, people who code are devoted to what they do and they only do it for fun (and recognizion). For a big corp that pays people to code, the devotion is probably not that high (not the fun either) and the flow of programmers is _much_ higher (not necesarely in and out of ms, but between different projects). Thats why i understand Larry. He want to protect the source agains incompetent programmers. I guess you could say that we have the same problem, we could get new incompetent members? Well, we can kick them hard and long, and also we monitor commits and we review the code.
Well, at least i tried. Better luck next time (/me pat self on shoulder)
Read Larry's posts. Read them again. Read the comments by other MS engineers. If you still think hiding complexity is a good thing, God help you.
Just because we are cloning thei OS doesnt mean we should clone their opinions, meanings and thoughts. There might still be hope for you thou;-P
G.
G.
Best regards, Alex Ionescu
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