Re: [ros-dev] Re: We have a web browser : Input ?

[barry day]

On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 05:58:27PM -0600, Royce Mitchell III wrote:
> >
>
> If we even tried, the only thing we would do is alienate potential users 
> of our OS, because their favorite killer app doesn't work on it.

Clone Microsoft's mistakes and you won't have potential users, there will be 
no reason to swap to Reactos.

[Richard Campbell]

If internet explorer were a 'mistake' it wouldn't have a 92% user base.  
If it isn't working, people wouldn't use it.  It took quite a long time 
for a worthy competitor (firefox) to appear.  Anyways, cloning internet 
explorer is outside the scope of this project.  It may BE a part of 
windows, but we can install it (IE5 at least) seperately (eventually).

barry day wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 05:58:27PM -0600, Royce Mitchell III wrote:
> > If we even tried, the only thing we would do is alienate potential users 
> > of our OS, because their favorite killer app doesn't work on it.
>
> Clone Microsoft's mistakes and you won't have potential users, there will be 
> no reason to swap to Reactos.
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Steven Edwards]

--- Richard Campbell [e-mail] wrote:
> If internet explorer were a 'mistake' it wouldn't have a 92% user base.  
> If it isn't working, people wouldn't use it.  It took quite a long time 
> for a worthy competitor (firefox) to appear.  Anyways, cloning internet 
> explorer is outside the scope of this project.  It may BE a part of 
> windows, but we can install it (IE5 at least) seperately (eventually).

Some things in Internet Explorer are a mistake, Buggy ActiveX, faulty rendering, broken standards
all come to mind.

Having a set of OS services for ftp,http,gopher,ssl,etc such as those provided by wininet.dll
(Part of Internet Explorer) are not. Not to mention the language support features provided by
mlang.dll (Part of Internet Explorer) or having a html rendering library that applications can use
mshtml.dll (Again part of Internet Explorer) or easy to use COM control to allow you embedded a
browser window in your application such as shdocvw.dll (Once again part of Internet
Explorer).....Not to mention other dlls not listed here that application vendors use.

ReactOS faces a the option of either working with Wine to reimplement these modules and not be
dependant on Microsoft software or to have a broken system. Wine already has support for wrapping
the Mozilla ActiveX Control in our implementation of shdocvw.dll so having a webbrowser is simple
Win32 Applicaton that calls IWebbrowser which in turn loads the Gecko COM object and embeddeds it
in a Window. Our Explorer.exe already does this. All I am asking for is a simple standalone app or
shortcut that does this using SDI.

How are the users supposed to download a better browser if we don't ship something on ReactOS?

Thanks
Steven

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[Mike Swanson]

We should at least implement basic features that some programs depend
on. That should include wrapping functions around an open-source
solution such as Mozilla.

It is also my opinion that we should not force Internet capabilities
if people do not want them. This was (and is) Microsoft's biggest
mistake, especially with Windows 98. I know many people who think that
Windows 98 shouldn't have had Internet Explorer. they continued to do
it to Windows NT at the same time (Windows 2000, as it is commonly
called). Microsoft pushed it even further in Windows XP, making the
activation feature (oh please. DO NOT copy this) in JavaScript. They
did it mostly so that people who removed Internet Explorer from
Windows forcefully wouldn't be able to use Windows XP. (One more
common work-around is to illegally download the Corporate edition.)

If you feel it to be necessary to copy some basic Internet Explorer
features that are "integrated" into Windows, go ahead and do it.
Please, however, make it optional. I guarentee that if you do not,
someone will derive from the official project. People make derivation
of the proprietary Microsoft Windows (98lite, nLite,
vorck.com/remove-ie.html), ReactOS is much easier to modify.

[Steven Edwards]

--- Mike Swanson [e-mail] wrote:
> We should at least implement basic features that some programs depend
> on. That should include wrapping functions around an open-source
> solution such as Mozilla.

Whice we (Wine Project) have already done, over a year ago in fact. Wine shdocvw.dll will wrap
around the Gecko and if you have the Mozilla ActiveX Control installed. If there are any other
places where a wrapper can be used then we can make firefox or mozilla a soft-dependancy.

Thanks
Steven

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