Should I call for a VOTE, or is it OK having a top level module for all Win32 related pieces? Please, comment. Thank you in advance.
Emanuele Aliberti wrote:
Should I call for a VOTE, or is it OK having a top level module for all Win32 related pieces? Please, comment. Thank you in advance.
So you say we should have all win32 releated stuff twice in the tree ? Where would the advantage be ?
Maarten Bosma
Maarten Bosma wrote:
So you say we should have all win32 releated stuff twice in the tree ? Where would the advantage be ?
Sorry, I forgot to say the magic word: I did mean *moving* out of the trunk/reactos all win subsystem related stuff. The target module should be trunk/windows or, if (c) issues should emerge, trunk/win.
Win32 would remain the dominant subsystem. I am not against Win32, that shuold be clear. I simply want to make the tree cleaner (the core in a module, a subsystem a module etsim.).
From: Emanuele Aliberti
Win32 would remain the dominant subsystem. I am not against Win32, that shuold be clear. I simply want to make the tree cleaner (the core in a module, a subsystem a module etsim.).
The one thing that distinguishes ReactOS from other open source operating systems is its application support. There is no other open source OS with the number of applications available (potentially :-)) as ReactOS. Take out Win32 and what you're left with is an OS which can only run native apps, bringing it down (in terms of application support) to the realms of BeOS and SkyOS. I have no problems with a reorganization which would make Win32 a separate entity in the repository, but I do feel rather strongly that the default build (and install) should include Win32. I'm not sure I like the idea of moving it to /trunk level. I thought beginning this year concensus was reached on http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/New_Tree_Structure ?
Gé van Geldorp.
Ge van Geldorp wrote:
From: Emanuele Aliberti
Win32 would remain the dominant subsystem. I am not against Win32, that shuold be clear. I simply want to make the tree cleaner (the core in a module, a subsystem a module etsim.).
I agree with the fact that Win32 should be able to be "compiled-out", but I don't think we should get to the point where it's in a separate branch. We had unofficialy discussed that stuff in its own branch is "non-core". And Win32 is very much -core- to NT. I'm also pretty sure that we can find a way to integrate both a compatible, cloned CSRSS/SMSS model with your wish to have more powerful MuSession functionality. It isn't a black and white question, and I'm sure both can be supported (at the very worst, there will simply have to be some run-time code paths for IfReactOS/IfWindows). That being said, I think the tree layout that everyone worked on does a good enough separation job, by having /dll/win32/* in a separate folder.
The one thing that distinguishes ReactOS from other open source operating systems is its application support. There is no other open source OS with the number of applications available (potentially :-)) as ReactOS. Take out Win32 and what you're left with is an OS which can only run native apps, bringing it down (in terms of application support) to the realms of BeOS and SkyOS. I have no problems with a reorganization which would make Win32 a separate entity in the repository,
That's what /dll/win32 does.
but I do feel rather strongly that the default build (and install) should include Win32.
Agreed.
I'm not sure I like the idea of moving it to /trunk level. I thought beginning this year concensus was reached on http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/New_Tree_Structure ?
Gé van Geldorp.
Best regards, Alex Ionescu
Alex, I am really sorry. We can not communicate about it.
Alex Ionescu wrote:
Ge van Geldorp wrote:
From: Emanuele Aliberti
Win32 would remain the dominant subsystem. I am not against Win32, that shuold be clear. I simply want to make the tree cleaner (the core in a module, a subsystem a module etsim.).
I agree with the fact that Win32 should be able to be "compiled-out", but I don't think we should get to the point where it's in a separate branch. We had unofficialy discussed that stuff in its own branch is "non-core". And Win32 is very much -core- to NT. I'm also pretty sure that we can find a way to integrate both a compatible, cloned CSRSS/SMSS model with your wish to have more powerful MuSession functionality. It isn't a black and white question, and I'm sure both can be supported (at the very worst, there will simply have to be some run-time code paths for IfReactOS/IfWindows). That being said, I think the tree layout that everyone worked on does a good enough separation job, by having /dll/win32/* in a separate folder.
The one thing that distinguishes ReactOS from other open source operating systems is its application support. There is no other open source OS with the number of applications available (potentially :-)) as ReactOS. Take out Win32 and what you're left with is an OS which can only run native apps, bringing it down (in terms of application support) to the realms of BeOS and SkyOS. I have no problems with a reorganization which would make Win32 a separate entity in the repository,
That's what /dll/win32 does.
but I do feel rather strongly that the default build (and install) should include Win32.
Agreed.
I'm not sure I like the idea of moving it to /trunk level. I thought beginning this year concensus was reached on http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/New_Tree_Structure ?
Gé van Geldorp.
Best regards, Alex Ionescu _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Ge van Geldorp wrote:
From: Emanuele Aliberti
Win32 would remain the dominant subsystem. I am not against Win32, that shuold be clear. I simply want to make the tree cleaner (the core in a module, a subsystem a module etsim.).
The one thing that distinguishes ReactOS from other open source operating systems is its application support. There is no other open source OS with the number of applications available (potentially :-)) as ReactOS. Take out Win32 and what you're left with is an OS which can only run native apps, bringing it down (in terms of application support) to the realms of BeOS and SkyOS.
You overread my words, it seems. I definitely need one more class of English language: Alex, again, says I want μSessions in CSR, which I twice said I dislike. This means I can't speak English. Period.
I have no problems with a reorganization which would make Win32 a separate entity in the repository, but I do feel rather strongly that the default build (and install) should include Win32.
That is exactly what "dominant subsystem" means.
I'm not sure I like the idea of moving it to /trunk level. I thought beginning this year concensus was reached on http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/New_Tree_Structure ?
Sorry. I saw the discussion stop and never reopened that page. I assumed (wrongly) that no consensus was reached about that subject. And never read the comments by Alex, with whom I mostly disagree.
Gé van Geldorp.
Really sorry for the noise.
From: Emanuele Aliberti
You overread my words, it seems. I definitely need one more class of English language: Alex, again, says I want µSessions in CSR, which I twice said I dislike. This means I can't speak English. Period.
Of course it is very possible that I was the one who misunderstood something, English isn't my native language either. What I was trying to point out is that the Win32 subsystem is special. I'm absolutely not opposed to setting up things so you can build, install and run ntoskrnl without the Win32 subsystem, I just think that 99% of the uses of ReactOS would include Win32. So, in my view it makes sense that building with Win32 is the default and should be the easiest configuration to build. If you meant that too (and I think you do), then great, we agree.
Really sorry for the noise.
Aren't you taking this a bit too personal?
Gé van Geldorp.
It would be advantageous to first have a discussion and then a vote.
It makes sense that Win16 be separate too so why not call the module win32 instead?
-----Original Message----- From: ros-dev-bounces@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-bounces@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Emanuele Aliberti Sent: 9. oktober 2005 13:12 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: [ros-dev] svn://svn.reactos.org/trunk/windows
Should I call for a VOTE, or is it OK having a top level module for all Win32 related pieces? Please, comment. Thank you in advance.
-- :Emanuele Aliberti
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Casper Hornstrup wrote:
It would be advantageous to first have a discussion and then a vote.
I support discussing it, since also further coding by me in reactos/subsys/csr depends on that choice. My initial bare implementation of the CSR was different than the actual code by Alex Ionescu. He used NT 5.1 as a model. I tried to clean it, not cloning it. Probably developers should, at the end of the discussion, vote about it, about keeping subsystem separate and support modules as neutral as possible, or cloning MS design. Making a top level trunk/windows and moving there the Win32 subsystem pieces, that now are under trunk/reactos, perhaps is a simple consequence.
It makes sense that Win16 be separate too so why not call the module win32 instead?
I'd avoid that, imho. The same should also apply for a trunk/reactos-i386 and a trunk/reactos-ppc...
By naming it win32, are you aware of the already moving 64bit train? By that coming awful compromises as Win32 on Win64, Com-reg dublicatgion and maybe one source compatible just win- subsystem Oh, that's all awful with this naming. BTW I do also like the (original) idea of freely exchangeable sub system. That sayd it will also be the case that win32 is the primary+default delivered and compiled personality.
Casper Hornstrup schrieb:
It would be advantageous to first have a discussion and then a vote.
It makes sense that Win16 be separate too so why not call the module win32 instead?
-----Original Message----- From: ros-dev-bounces@reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-bounces@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Emanuele Aliberti Sent: 9. oktober 2005 13:12 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: [ros-dev] svn://svn.reactos.org/trunk/windows
Should I call for a VOTE, or is it OK having a top level module for all Win32 related pieces? Please, comment. Thank you in advance.
-- :Emanuele Aliberti
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
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