Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl] - Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k for desktop and window station objects - Fix a bug that caused ObpCloseHandle to return success even whe...

[Alex Ionescu]

It's hilarious how this new code has the exact same Windows security bug I gave a talk about at BlackHat 2-3 years ago (which Microsoft fixed in Vista).

It's sad how this code ignores the exported PsSetProcessWindowStation API and relevant EPROCESS field.

It's awesome how nothing changes whenever I prop up to see the "progress".

--
Best regards,
Alex Ionescu

On 2011-03-22, at 5:19 AM, [e-mail] wrote:
> Author: gadamopoulos
> Date: Tue Mar 22 09:19:26 2011
> New Revision: 51115
>
> URL: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos?rev=51115&view=rev
> Log:
> [ntoskrnl]
> Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k for desktop and window station objects
> Fix a bug that caused ObpCloseHandle to return success even when OkayToCloseProcedure failed
>
> [win32k]
> Rewrite SetProcessWindowStation to actually set the current window station and close the previous one
> Implement OkayToCloseProcedure callouts from the kernel to prevent closing the current desktop or window station
>
> Modified:
>    trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ex/win32k.c
>    trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ob/obhandle.c
>    trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ps/win32.c
>    trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/desktop.h
>    trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/win32.h
>    trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/winsta.h
>    trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/main/dllmain.c
>    trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/desktop.c
>    trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/winsta.c
>
> Modified: trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ex/win32k.c
> URL: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ex/win32k.c?rev=51...
> ==============================================================================
> --- trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ex/win32k.c [iso-8859-1] (original)
> +++ trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ex/win32k.c [iso-8859-1] Tue Mar 22 09:19:26 2011
> @@ -37,9 +37,45 @@
>
> PKWIN32_PARSEMETHOD_CALLOUT ExpWindowStationObjectParse = NULL;
> PKWIN32_DELETEMETHOD_CALLOUT ExpWindowStationObjectDelete = NULL;
> +PKWIN32_OKTOCLOSEMETHOD_CALLOUT ExpWindowStationObjectOkToClose = NULL;
> +PKWIN32_OKTOCLOSEMETHOD_CALLOUT ExpDesktopObjectOkToClose = NULL;
> PKWIN32_DELETEMETHOD_CALLOUT ExpDesktopObjectDelete = NULL;
>
> /* FUNCTIONS ****************************************************************/
>
> +NTSTATUS
> +NTAPI
> +ExpDesktopOkToClose( IN PEPROCESS Process OPTIONAL,
>                 IN PVOID Object,
>                 IN HANDLE Handle,
>                 IN KPROCESSOR_MODE AccessMode)
>
> +{
> WIN32_OKAYTOCLOSEMETHOD_PARAMETERS Parameters;
> Parameters.Process = Process;
> Parameters.Object = Object;
> Parameters.Handle = Handle;
> Parameters.PreviousMode = AccessMode;
> return ExpDesktopObjectOkToClose(&Parameters);
>
> +}
>
> +NTSTATUS
> +NTAPI
> +ExpWindowStationOkToClose( IN PEPROCESS Process OPTIONAL,
>                 IN PVOID Object,
>                 IN HANDLE Handle,
>                 IN KPROCESSOR_MODE AccessMode)
>
> +{
> WIN32_OKAYTOCLOSEMETHOD_PARAMETERS Parameters;
> Parameters.Process = Process;
> Parameters.Object = Object;
> Parameters.Handle = Handle;
> Parameters.PreviousMode = AccessMode;
> return ExpWindowStationObjectOkToClose(&Parameters);
>
> +}
>
> VOID
> NTAPI
> @@ -114,6 +150,7 @@
>     ObjectTypeInitializer.PoolType = NonPagedPool;
>     ObjectTypeInitializer.DeleteProcedure = ExpWinStaObjectDelete;
>     ObjectTypeInitializer.ParseProcedure = ExpWinStaObjectParse;
> ObjectTypeInitializer.OkayToCloseProcedure = ExpWindowStationOkToClose;
> ObCreateObjectType(&Name,
>                   &ObjectTypeInitializer,
>                   NULL,
>
> @@ -124,6 +161,7 @@
>     ObjectTypeInitializer.GenericMapping = ExpDesktopMapping;
>     ObjectTypeInitializer.DeleteProcedure = ExpDesktopDelete;
>     ObjectTypeInitializer.ParseProcedure = NULL;
> ObjectTypeInitializer.OkayToCloseProcedure = ExpDesktopOkToClose;
> ObCreateObjectType(&Name,
>                   &ObjectTypeInitializer,
>                   NULL,
>
> Modified: trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ob/obhandle.c
> URL: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ob/obhandle.c?rev=...
> ==============================================================================
> --- trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ob/obhandle.c [iso-8859-1] (original)
> +++ trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ob/obhandle.c [iso-8859-1] Tue Mar 22 09:19:26 2011
> @@ -1752,7 +1752,6 @@
>     /* Detach and return success */
>     if (AttachedToProcess) KeUnstackDetachProcess(&ApcState);
>    Status = STATUS_SUCCESS;
> }
>   else
>   {
>
> Modified: trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ps/win32.c
> URL: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ps/win32.c?rev=511...
> ==============================================================================
> --- trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ps/win32.c [iso-8859-1] (original)
> +++ trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/ps/win32.c [iso-8859-1] Tue Mar 22 09:19:26 2011
> @@ -20,6 +20,8 @@
> PGDI_BATCHFLUSH_ROUTINE KeGdiFlushUserBatch = NULL;
> extern PKWIN32_PARSEMETHOD_CALLOUT ExpWindowStationObjectParse;
> extern PKWIN32_DELETEMETHOD_CALLOUT ExpWindowStationObjectDelete;
> +extern PKWIN32_OKTOCLOSEMETHOD_CALLOUT ExpWindowStationObjectOkToClose;
> +extern PKWIN32_OKTOCLOSEMETHOD_CALLOUT ExpDesktopObjectOkToClose;
> extern PKWIN32_DELETEMETHOD_CALLOUT ExpDesktopObjectDelete;
> extern PKWIN32_POWEREVENT_CALLOUT PopEventCallout;
>
> @@ -116,6 +118,8 @@
>     PspW32ThreadCallout = CalloutData->ThreadCallout;
>     ExpWindowStationObjectParse = CalloutData->WindowStationParseProcedure;
>     ExpWindowStationObjectDelete = CalloutData->WindowStationDeleteProcedure;
> ExpWindowStationObjectOkToClose = CalloutData->WindowStationOkToCloseProcedure;
> ExpDesktopObjectOkToClose = CalloutData->DesktopOkToCloseProcedure;
> ExpDesktopObjectDelete = CalloutData->DesktopDeleteProcedure;
> PopEventCallout = CalloutData->PowerEventCallout;
> KeGdiFlushUserBatch = CalloutData->BatchFlushRoutine;
>
> Modified: trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/desktop.h
> URL: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/inc...
> ==============================================================================
> --- trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/desktop.h [iso-8859-1] (original)
> +++ trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/desktop.h [iso-8859-1] Tue Mar 22 09:19:26 2011
> @@ -69,6 +69,9 @@
> VOID APIENTRY
> IntDesktopObjectDelete(PWIN32_DELETEMETHOD_PARAMETERS Parameters);
>
> +NTSTATUS NTAPI 
> +IntDesktopOkToClose(PWIN32_OKAYTOCLOSEMETHOD_PARAMETERS Parameters);
>
> LRESULT CALLBACK
> IntDesktopWindowProc(HWND hWnd, UINT msg, WPARAM wParam, LPARAM lParam);
>
> Modified: trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/win32.h
> URL: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/inc...
> ==============================================================================
> --- trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/win32.h [iso-8859-1] (original)
> +++ trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/win32.h [iso-8859-1] Tue Mar 22 09:19:26 2011
> @@ -166,6 +166,7 @@
>   PCLS pclsPrivateList;
>   PCLS pclsPublicList;
>   INT cThreads;
> HDESK hdeskStartup;
> DWORD dwhmodLibLoadedMask;
> HANDLE ahmodLibLoaded[CLIBS];
> struct _WINSTATION_OBJECT *prpwinsta;
>
> Modified: trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/winsta.h
> URL: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/inc...
> ==============================================================================
> --- trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/winsta.h [iso-8859-1] (original)
> +++ trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/include/winsta.h [iso-8859-1] Tue Mar 22 09:19:26 2011
> @@ -82,6 +82,9 @@
> APIENTRY
> IntWinStaObjectParse(PWIN32_PARSEMETHOD_PARAMETERS Parameters);
>
> +NTSTATUS NTAPI 
> +IntWinstaOkToClose(PWIN32_OKAYTOCLOSEMETHOD_PARAMETERS Parameters);
>
> NTSTATUS FASTCALL
> IntValidateWindowStationHandle(
>    HWINSTA WindowStation,
> @@ -106,4 +109,7 @@
>
> PWINSTATION_OBJECT FASTCALL IntGetWinStaObj(VOID);
>
> +BOOL FASTCALL
> +UserSetProcessWindowStation(HWINSTA hWindowStation);
>
> /* EOF */
>
> Modified: trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/main/dllmain.c
> URL: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/mai...
> ==============================================================================
> --- trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/main/dllmain.c [iso-8859-1] (original)
> +++ trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/main/dllmain.c [iso-8859-1] Tue Mar 22 09:19:26 2011
> @@ -119,6 +119,7 @@
>     {
>         DPRINT("Destroying W32 process PID:%d at IRQ level: %lu\n", Process->UniqueProcessId, KeGetCurrentIrql());
>         Win32Process->W32PF_flags |= W32PF_TERMINATED;
>   if (Win32Process->InputIdleEvent)
>   {
>      EngFreeMem((PVOID)Win32Process->InputIdleEvent);
>
> @@ -144,6 +145,9 @@
>         {
>             LogonProcess = NULL;
>         }
>    UserSetProcessWindowStation(NULL);
>
> }
>
> RETURN( STATUS_SUCCESS);
>
> @@ -220,25 +224,14 @@
>         {
>             if(hWinSta != NULL)
>             {
>            if(Process != CsrProcess)
>            if(!UserSetProcessWindowStation(hWinSta))
>           {
>                HWINSTA hProcessWinSta = (HWINSTA)InterlockedCompareExchangePointer((PVOID)&Process->Win32WindowStation, (PVOID)hWinSta, NULL);
>                if(hProcessWinSta != NULL)
>                {
>                    /* our process is already assigned to a different window station, we don't need the handle anymore */
>                    NtClose(hWinSta);
>                }
>            }
>            else
>            {
>                NtClose(hWinSta);
>                DPRINT1("Failed to set process window station\n");
>           }
>       }
>
>       if (hDesk != NULL)
>       {
>            Win32Thread->rpdesk = NULL;
>            Win32Thread->hdesk = NULL;
>           if (!IntSetThreadDesktop(hDesk, FALSE))
>           {
>                   DPRINT1("Unable to set thread desktop\n");
>
> @@ -441,6 +434,8 @@
>     CalloutData.ProcessCallout = Win32kProcessCallback;
>     CalloutData.ThreadCallout = Win32kThreadCallback;
>     CalloutData.BatchFlushRoutine = NtGdiFlushUserBatch;
>
> CalloutData.DesktopOkToCloseProcedure = IntDesktopOkToClose;
>
> CalloutData.WindowStationOkToCloseProcedure = IntWinstaOkToClose;
>
> /* Register our per-process and per-thread structures. */
> PsEstablishWin32Callouts((PWIN32_CALLOUTS_FPNS)&CalloutData);
>
> Modified: trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/desktop.c
> URL: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/ntu...
> ==============================================================================
> --- trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/desktop.c [iso-8859-1] (original)
> +++ trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/desktop.c [iso-8859-1] Tue Mar 22 09:19:26 2011
> @@ -166,6 +166,29 @@
>    RemoveEntryList(&Desktop->ListEntry);
>
> IntFreeDesktopHeap(Desktop);
> +}
>
> +NTSTATUS NTAPI 
> +IntDesktopOkToClose(PWIN32_OKAYTOCLOSEMETHOD_PARAMETERS Parameters)
> +{
> PTHREADINFO pti;
> pti = PsGetCurrentThreadWin32Thread();
> if( pti == NULL)
> {
>    /* This happens when we leak desktop handles */
>    return TRUE;
> }
> /* Do not allow the current desktop or the initial desktop to be closed */
> if( Parameters->Handle == pti->ppi->hdeskStartup ||
>    Parameters->Handle == pti->hdesk)
> {
>    return FALSE;
> }
> return TRUE;
>
> }
>
> /* PRIVATE FUNCTIONS **********************************************************/
>
> Modified: trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/winsta.c
> URL: http://svn.reactos.org/svn/reactos/trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/ntu...
> ==============================================================================
> --- trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/winsta.c [iso-8859-1] (original)
> +++ trunk/reactos/subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/winsta.c [iso-8859-1] Tue Mar 22 09:19:26 2011
> @@ -187,6 +187,21 @@
>     return STATUS_OBJECT_TYPE_MISMATCH;
> }
>
> +NTSTATUS NTAPI 
> +IntWinstaOkToClose(PWIN32_OKAYTOCLOSEMETHOD_PARAMETERS Parameters)
> +{
> PPROCESSINFO ppi;
> ppi = PsGetCurrentProcessWin32Process();
> if(Parameters->Handle == ppi->hwinsta)
> {
>    return FALSE;
> }
> return TRUE;
>
> +}
>
> /* PRIVATE FUNCTIONS **********************************************************/
>
> /*
> @@ -915,6 +930,57 @@
>    return WinStaObj;
> }
>
> +BOOL FASTCALL
> +UserSetProcessWindowStation(HWINSTA hWindowStation)
> +{
> PPROCESSINFO ppi;
> NTSTATUS Status;
> HWINSTA hwinstaOld;
> PWINSTATION_OBJECT NewWinSta = NULL, OldWinSta;
> ppi = PsGetCurrentProcessWin32Process();
> if(hWindowStation !=NULL)
> {
>    Status = IntValidateWindowStationHandle( hWindowStation,
>                                             KernelMode,
>                                             0,
>                                             &NewWinSta);
>   if (!NT_SUCCESS(Status))
>   {
>      DPRINT("Validation of window station handle (0x%X) failed\n",
>             hWindowStation);
>      SetLastNtError(Status);
>      return FALSE;
>   }
> }
> OldWinSta = ppi->prpwinsta;
> hwinstaOld = ppi->hwinsta;
> /*
> FIXME - don't allow changing the window station if there are threads that are attached to desktops and own gui objects
> */
> InterlockedExchangePointer(&PsGetCurrentProcess()->Win32WindowStation, hWindowStation);
> ppi->prpwinsta = NewWinSta;
> ppi->hwinsta = hWindowStation;
> if(OldWinSta != NULL)
> {
>   ObDereferenceObject(OldWinSta);
> }
> if(hwinstaOld != NULL)
> {
>   ZwClose(hwinstaOld);
> }
> return TRUE;
>
> +}
>
> /*
> NtUserSetProcessWindowStation
>
> @@ -934,44 +1000,15 @@
> BOOL APIENTRY
> NtUserSetProcessWindowStation(HWINSTA hWindowStation)
> {
> PWINSTATION_OBJECT NewWinSta;
> NTSTATUS Status;
> DPRINT("About to set process window station with handle (0x%X)\n",
>      hWindowStation);
> if(PsGetCurrentProcess() == CsrProcess)
> {
>  DPRINT1("CSRSS is not allowed to change it's window station!!!\n");
>  EngSetLastError(ERROR_ACCESS_DENIED);
>  return FALSE;
> }
> Status = IntValidateWindowStationHandle(
>           hWindowStation,
>           KernelMode,
>           0,
>           &NewWinSta);
> if (!NT_SUCCESS(Status))
> {
>  DPRINT("Validation of window station handle (0x%X) failed\n",
>         hWindowStation);
>  SetLastNtError(Status);
>  return FALSE;
> }
> /*
> FIXME - don't allow changing the window station if there are threads that are attached to desktops and own gui objects
> */
> /* FIXME - dereference the old window station, etc... */
> InterlockedExchangePointer(&PsGetCurrentProcess()->Win32WindowStation, hWindowStation);
> DPRINT("PsGetCurrentProcess()->Win32WindowStation 0x%X\n",
>      PsGetCurrentProcess()->Win32WindowStation);
> return TRUE;
> BOOL ret;
> UserEnterExclusive();
> ret = UserSetProcessWindowStation(hWindowStation);
> UserLeave();
> return ret;
>
> }
>
> /*

[Olaf Siejka]

If you care about it, fix it... or just pass info how to do it.

If you dont care, why did you write that in the first place?

There is something here i do not understand.

2011/3/22 Alex Ionescu [e-mail]
> It's hilarious how this new code has the exact same Windows security bug I
> gave a talk about at BlackHat 2-3 years ago (which Microsoft fixed in
> Vista).
>
> It's sad how this code ignores the exported PsSetProcessWindowStation API
> and relevant EPROCESS field.
>
> It's awesome how nothing changes whenever I prop up to see the "progress".
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Alex Ionesc

[Alex Ionescu]

On 2011-03-22, at 6:07 PM, Olaf Siejka wrote:
> or just pass info how to do it.

Try reading the e-mail.

--
Best regards,
Alex Ionescu

[Olaf Siejka]

I see mostly bragging around and bit of subtle hinting. Not that i`d care
about it.

2011/3/22 Alex Ionescu [e-mail]
> On 2011-03-22, at 6:07 PM, Olaf Siejka wrote:
> > or just pass info how to do it.
>
> Try reading the e-mail.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Alex Ionescu]

I suppose every time someone 'writes a paper' on something you take it as bragging -- however this is called a statement of fact.

Bragging sounds more like "I was the only scientist capable of discovering the phenomenon and writing a paper on it".

Or "I wrote the seminal, ground-breaking paper on..." (unless this is a well-established public fact -- but even then, one should probably not mention it in this way).

We also have something called 'references'. Therefore, when someone writes "In my paper published in Nature, Issue 12, Volume 192...." it is not a "hint", it is a reference. A competent academic would then look up the issue (and unless the author wrote two papers in the journal, you should not need any extra information).

Perhaps "2-3 years ago" was too vague -- although given the scarcity of papers I have published at that particular conference, it is not hard to find the correct "year": 2008.

Of course, the inability to make the basic Google search to discover the paper even after I referenced it, explains the inability to have read the paper before hand (hint: regular scientists will often look up papers published on the topic they're about to embark on), or to have written the code without duplicating the same security issue. If you can't read, it's hard to write.

--
Best regards,
Alex Ionescu

On 2011-03-22, at 6:11 PM, Olaf Siejka wrote:
> I see mostly bragging around and bit of subtle hinting. Not that i`d care about it.
>
> 2011/3/22 Alex Ionescu [e-mail]
> On 2011-03-22, at 6:07 PM, Olaf Siejka wrote:
> > or just pass info how to do it.
>
> Try reading the e-mail.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Olaf Siejka]

Me sorry. Me too stupid. tl:dr

I guess you shouldn't waste your time by any futher reply.

Regards

2011/3/22 Alex Ionescu [e-mail]
> I suppose every time someone 'writes a paper' on something you take it as
> bragging -- however this is called a statement of fact.
>
> Bragging sounds more like "I was the only scientist capable of discovering
> the phenomenon and writing a paper on it".
>
> Or "I wrote the seminal, ground-breaking paper on..." (unless this is a
> well-established public fact -- but even then, one should probably not
> mention it in this way).
>
> We also have something called 'references'. Therefore, when someone writes
> "In my paper published in Nature, Issue 12, Volume 192...." it is not a
> "hint", it is a reference. A competent academic would then look up the issue
> (and unless the author wrote two papers in the journal, you should not need
> any extra information).
>
> Perhaps "2-3 years ago" was too vague -- although given the scarcity of
> papers I have published at that particular conference, it is not hard to
> find the correct "year": 2008.
>
> Of course, the inability to make the basic Google search to discover the
> paper even after I referenced it, explains the inability to have read the
> paper before hand (hint: regular scientists will often look up papers
> published on the topic they're about to embark on), or to have written the
> code without duplicating the same security issue. If you can't read, it's
> hard to write.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu
>
> On 2011-03-22, at 6:11 PM, Olaf Siejka wrote:
>
> I see mostly bragging around and bit of subtle hinting. Not that i`d care
> about it.
>
> 2011/3/22 Alex Ionescu [e-mail]
> > On 2011-03-22, at 6:07 PM, Olaf Siejka wrote:
> > > or just pass info how to do it.
> >
> > Try reading the e-mail.
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Alex Ionescu
> >
> > Ros-dev mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Timo Kreuzer]

Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:
> bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu

Since you seem to be interested in helping the project but are uncapable 
of doing it correctly, let me help you a bit:
The fact that you gave a talk about something is probably pretty 
important ... for your ego. Its irrelevant to fixing the problem though.
Instead of mentioning it, and later posting quite a lot of even more 
unrelated, boring and useless information, you could have simply pointed 
out where the actual problem was. That would have helped more. Altough 
it would have been less fun of course and less people would google for 
your name / talk. (I didn't anyway)
I wonder if MS really made the mistake of returning TRUE/FALSE in a 
function that is supposed to return an NTSTATUS. Probably not. Did you 
even notice this bug? If yes, thanks for not mentioning it to avoid any 
inconvenience. If no... nah, impossible,

BTW, would you like to take part in GSoC as a student? Maybe you could 
do something like rewriting the kernel based on windows 8 or something? 
I think I could mentor you.

Thanks,
Timo

[WaxDragon]

Unbelievable!  We should be happy that Alex even commented on this commit to
point out a flaw.  Spend some time looking in to what he said, and less time
disrespecting a man with his name on the cover of Windows Internals.

Waxy

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail] wrote:
> Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:
> > bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Alex Ionescu
-- 
<+encoded> if you square a unicorn do you get a real animal?

[Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo]

you`re been ironic, right?

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 5:22 AM, WaxDragon [e-mail] wrote:
> Unbelievable!  We should be happy that Alex even commented on this commit
> to point out a flaw.  Spend some time looking in to what he said, and less
> time disrespecting a man with his name on the cover of Windows Internals.
>
> Waxy
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail] wrote:
> > Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:
> > > bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Alex Ionescu
>
> --
> <+encoded> if you square a unicorn do you get a real animal?
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo]

you´re BEING, sorry

2011/3/23 Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo [e-mail]
> you`re been ironic, right?
>
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 5:22 AM, WaxDragon [e-mail] wrote:
> > Unbelievable!  We should be happy that Alex even commented on this commit
> > to point out a flaw.  Spend some time looking in to what he said, and less
> > time disrespecting a man with his name on the cover of Windows Internals.
> >
> > Waxy
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail]:
> > > Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:
> > > > bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Best regards,
> > > > Alex Ionescu
> >
> > --
> > <+encoded> if you square a unicorn do you get a real animal?
> >
> > Ros-dev mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Samuel serapion]

It's the most sensible email in this thread

2011/3/23 Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo [e-mail]:
> you´re BEING, sorry
>
> 2011/3/23 Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo [e-mail]
> > you`re been ironic, right?
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 5:22 AM, WaxDragon [e-mail] wrote:
> > > Unbelievable!  We should be happy that Alex even commented on this commit
> > > to point out a flaw.  Spend some time looking in to what he said, and less
> > > time disrespecting a man with his name on the cover of Windows Internals.
> > > Waxy
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail]
> > > wrote:
> > > > Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:
> > > > > bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Alex Ionescu
> > >
> > > --
> > > <+encoded> if you square a unicorn do you get a real animal?
> > >
> > > Ros-dev mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Michael Martin]

Uhhh No.
I am sure everyone appreciates any constructive comments pointing out bugs or flaws. Especially from someone like Alex that knows his stuff.
But if you come across as cocky and demeaning while doing this, your bound to get some disrespect, whether your name is on cover of Windows Internals or not.
Alex's email came across to me this way.

Something such as
"This code suffers from a security bug which I talked about at Blackhat 2 or 3 years ago (Fixed since Vista).
Also the code ignores the exported PsSetProcessWindowStation API and relevant EPROCESS field."
would have been totally professional and totally appropriate.

Mike

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 00:22:00 -0400
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl] - Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k for desktop and window station objects - Fix a bug that caused ObpCloseHandle to return success even whe...

Unbelievable!  We should be happy that Alex even commented on this commit to point out a flaw.  Spend some time looking in to what he said, and less time disrespecting a man with his name on the cover of Windows Internals.

Waxy

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail] wrote:

Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

--

Best regards,

Alex Ionescu
-- 
<+encoded> if you square a unicorn do you get a real animal?



_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
[e-mail]
http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Ged Murphy]

I'm glad someone else was thinking that too.

From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On
Behalf Of WaxDragon
Sent: 23 March 2011 04:22
To: ReactOS Development List
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl] -
Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k for desktop and
window station objects - Fix a bug that caused ObpCloseHandle to return
success even whe...

Unbelievable!  We should be happy that Alex even commented on this commit to
point out a flaw.  Spend some time looking in to what he said, and less time
disrespecting a man with his name on the cover of Windows Internals.

Waxy

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail] wrote:

Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:

bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

--
Best regards,
Alex Ionescu
-- 
<+encoded> if you square a unicorn do you get a real animal?

[Samuel serapion]

both point of views have merit

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 4:04 AM, Ged Murphy [e-mail] wrote:
> I’m glad someone else was thinking that too.
>
> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On
> Behalf Of WaxDragon
> Sent: 23 March 2011 04:22
> To: ReactOS Development List
> Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl] -
> Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k for desktop and
> window station objects - Fix a bug that caused ObpCloseHandle to return
> success even whe...
>
> Unbelievable!  We should be happy that Alex even commented on this commit to
> point out a flaw.  Spend some time looking in to what he said, and less time
> disrespecting a man with his name on the cover of Windows Internals.
>
> Waxy
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail] wrote:
>
> Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:
>
> bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu
>
> --
> <+encoded> if you square a unicorn do you get a real animal?
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Aleksey Bragin]

It's a shame, it may seem to an outsider that ReactOS team is full of  
an arrogant people who don't respect a former dev with quite  
significant contribution. Instead of thinking and fixing, this thread  
turned rude even before Alex replied more.

I guess if Dave Cutler and Marc Lucovsky would write a reply here,  
they would also get harsh replies about their huge ego and Timo would  
offer to mentor them too :-)

WBR,
Aleksey Bragin.

On Mar 23, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Ged Murphy wrote:
> I’m glad someone else was thinking that too.
>
> From: [e-mail] [mailto:ros-dev- 
> [e-mail]] On Behalf Of WaxDragon
> Sent: 23 March 2011 04:22
> To: ReactOS Development List
> Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl]
> Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k for
>
> desktop and window station objects - Fix a bug that caused  
> ObpCloseHandle to return success even whe...
>
> Unbelievable!  We should be happy that Alex even commented on this  
> commit to point out a flaw.  Spend some time looking in to what he  
> said, and less time disrespecting a man with his name on the cover  
> of Windows Internals.
>
> Waxy
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail]  
> wrote:
>
> Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:
>
> bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu

[Kamil Hornicek]

it may also seem like the ex-reactos team is full of arrogant people.. I 
guess if Cutler or Lucovsky wrote a reply in here in a similar manner they 
would indeed get the same reply.

wbr,
kamil

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Aleksey Bragin
To: ReactOS Development List
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:28 AM
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: 
[ntoskrnl] -Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k 
fordesktop and window station objects - Fix a bug that causedObpCloseHandle 
to return success even whe...

It's a shame, it may seem to an outsider that ReactOS team is full of an 
arrogant people who don't respect a former dev with quite significant 
contribution. Instead of thinking and fixing, this thread turned rude even 
before Alex replied more.

I guess if Dave Cutler and Marc Lucovsky would write a reply here, they 
would also get harsh replies about their huge ego and Timo would offer to 
mentor them too :-)

WBR,
Aleksey Bragin.

On Mar 23, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Ged Murphy wrote:

I’m glad someone else was thinking that too.

From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On 
Behalf Of WaxDragon
Sent: 23 March 2011 04:22
To: ReactOS Development List
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl] - 
Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k for desktop and 
window station objects - Fix a bug that caused ObpCloseHandle to return 
success even whe...

Unbelievable!  We should be happy that Alex even commented on this commit to 
point out a flaw.  Spend some time looking in to what he said, and less time 
disrespecting a man with his name on the cover of Windows Internals.

Waxy
On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail] wrote:
Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:
bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla

--
Best regards,
Alex Ionescu

_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
[e-mail]
http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Alex Ionescu]

In the meantime -- has any one of you actually Googled for the PDF and read the appropriate section (hint: It was titled "Developer Guidance")?

--
Best regards,
Alex Ionescu

On 2011-03-23, at 5:52 AM, Kamil Hornicek wrote:
> it may also seem like the ex-reactos team is full of arrogant people.. I guess if Cutler or Lucovsky wrote a reply in here in a similar manner they would indeed get the same reply.
>
> wbr,
> kamil
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: Aleksey Bragin
> To: ReactOS Development List
> Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl] -Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k fordesktop and window station objects - Fix a bug that causedObpCloseHandle to return success even whe...
>
> It's a shame, it may seem to an outsider that ReactOS team is full of an arrogant people who don't respect a former dev with quite significant contribution. Instead of thinking and fixing, this thread turned rude even before Alex replied more.
>
> I guess if Dave Cutler and Marc Lucovsky would write a reply here, they would also get harsh replies about their huge ego and Timo would offer to mentor them too :-)
>
> WBR,
> Aleksey Bragin.
>
> On Mar 23, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Ged Murphy wrote:
>
> I’m glad someone else was thinking that too.
>
> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of WaxDragon
> Sent: 23 March 2011 04:22
> To: ReactOS Development List
> Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl] - Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k for desktop and window station objects - Fix a bug that caused ObpCloseHandle to return success even whe...
>
> Unbelievable!  We should be happy that Alex even commented on this commit to point out a flaw.  Spend some time looking in to what he said, and less time disrespecting a man with his name on the cover of Windows Internals.
>
> Waxy
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail] wrote:
> Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:
> bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Gabriel ilardi]

Let's smooth the edges:

"So all we have to do is:
• Create a window station with CreateWindowStation
• Protect the handle with SetHandleInformation
• Close it with CloseWindowStatio
Bug was caught in Vista SP1 / Server 2008 timeframe
• Probably due to SDL -- obvious bug"

Source:

http://www.alex-ionescu.com/BH08-AlexIonescu.pdf
> From: [e-mail]
> Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:31:44 -0400
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115:	[ntoskrnl]	-Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts	to win32k	fordesktop and window station objects - Fix a bug	that	causedObpCloseHandle to return success even whe...
>
> In the meantime -- has any one of you actually Googled for the PDF and read the appropriate section (hint: It was titled "Developer Guidance")?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu
>
> On 2011-03-23, at 5:52 AM, Kamil Hornicek wrote:
> > it may also seem like the ex-reactos team is full of arrogant people.. I guess if Cutler or Lucovsky wrote a reply in here in a similar manner they would indeed get the same reply.
> >
> > wbr,
> > kamil
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: Aleksey Bragin
> > To: ReactOS Development List
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:28 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl] -Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k fordesktop and window station objects - Fix a bug that causedObpCloseHandle to return success even whe...
> >
> > It's a shame, it may seem to an outsider that ReactOS team is full of an arrogant people who don't respect a former dev with quite significant contribution. Instead of thinking and fixing, this thread turned rude even before Alex replied more.
> >
> > I guess if Dave Cutler and Marc Lucovsky would write a reply here, they would also get harsh replies about their huge ego and Timo would offer to mentor them too :-)
> >
> > WBR,
> > Aleksey Bragin.
> >
> > On Mar 23, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Ged Murphy wrote:
> >
> > I’m glad someone else was thinking that too.
> >
> > From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of WaxDragon
> > Sent: 23 March 2011 04:22
> > To: ReactOS Development List
> > Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl] - Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k for desktop and window station objects - Fix a bug that caused ObpCloseHandle to return success even whe...
> >
> > Unbelievable!  We should be happy that Alex even commented on this commit to point out a flaw.  Spend some time looking in to what he said, and less time disrespecting a man with his name on the cover of Windows Internals.
> >
> > Waxy
> > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail] wrote:
> > Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:
> > bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Alex Ionescu
> >
> > Ros-dev mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> >
> > Ros-dev mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Alex Ionescu]

Wrong bug, it's the other one (cached winsta).

On 2011-03-23, at 11:54 AM, Gabriel ilardi wrote:
> Let's smooth the edges:
>
> "So all we have to do is:
> • Create a window station with CreateWindowStation
> • Protect the handle with SetHandleInformation
> • Close it with CloseWindowStatio
> Bug was caught in Vista SP1 / Server 2008 timeframe
> • Probably due to SDL -- obvious bug"
>
> Source:
> http://www.alex-ionescu.com/BH08-AlexIonescu.pdf
> > From: [e-mail]
> > Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2011 11:31:44 -0400
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115:	[ntoskrnl]	-Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts	to win32k	fordesktop and window station objects - Fix a bug	that causedObpCloseHandle to return success even whe...
> >
> > In the meantime -- has any one of you actually Googled for the PDF and read the appropriate section (hint: It was titled "Developer Guidance")?
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Alex Ionescu
> >
> > On 2011-03-23, at 5:52 AM, Kamil Hornicek wrote:
> > > it may also seem like the ex-reactos team is full of arrogant people.. I guess if Cutler or Lucovsky wrote a reply in here in a similar manner they would indeed get the same reply.
> > >
> > > wbr,
> > > kamil
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: Aleksey Bragin
> > > To: ReactOS Development List
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:28 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl] -Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k fordesktop and window station objects - Fix a bug that causedObpCloseHandle to return success even whe...
> > >
> > > It's a shame, it may seem to an outsider that ReactOS team is full of an arrogant people who don't respect a former dev with quite significant contribution. Instead of thinking and fixing, this thread turned rude even before Alex replied more.
> > >
> > > I guess if Dave Cutler and Marc Lucovsky would write a reply here, they would also get harsh replies about their huge ego and Timo would offer to mentor them too :-)
> > >
> > > WBR,
> > > Aleksey Bragin.
> > >
> > > On Mar 23, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Ged Murphy wrote:
> > >
> > > I’m glad someone else was thinking that too.
> > >
> > > From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of WaxDragon
> > > Sent: 23 March 2011 04:22
> > > To: ReactOS Development List
> > > Subject: Re: [ros-dev] [ros-diffs] [gadamopoulos] 51115: [ntoskrnl] - Implement calling OkayToCloseProcedure callouts to win32k for desktop and window station objects - Fix a bug that caused ObpCloseHandle to return success even whe...
> > >
> > > Unbelievable! We should be happy that Alex even commented on this commit to point out a flaw. Spend some time looking in to what he said, and less time disrespecting a man with his name on the cover of Windows Internals.
> > >
> > > Waxy
> > > On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:35 PM, Timo Kreuzer [e-mail] wrote:
> > > Am 22.03.2011 23:17, gab Alex Ionescu folgendes von sich:
> > > bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla
> > >
> > > --
> > > Best regards,
> > > Alex Ionescu
> > >
> > > Ros-dev mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> > >
> > > Ros-dev mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> >
> > Ros-dev mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[James Tabor]

I have all your papers and data from your blog as well...

I understand the frustration. The quickness of intolerance with this
project is sickening. Falling in to it's trap with quick blows of
erratic tantrums. Reverting into the dark ages of coded hell. More
code see less and less light of day as "if'ed" out of existence. The
hacking of ignorance killing the structure. I understand the
frustration.

Peace,
James

On Wed, Mar 23, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Alex Ionescu [e-mail] wrote:
> In the meantime -- has any one of you actually Googled for the PDF and read the appropriate section (hint: It was titled "Developer Guidance")?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu

[James Tabor]

Hi everyone,
http://www.alex-ionescu.com/ Main Blog,
http://www.alex-ionescu.com/?p=61 Black Hat 2008 Wrap-up <------- here
http://www.alex-ionescu.com/BH08-AlexIonescu.pdf <------------------ read

I would like everyone (new Developers) that haven't read this blog to
do so and get up to date!

I'm not sure if M$ fixed their issues, it may not be Server 2003 but
at least 2008 plus or 7.

Thanks,
James

ps I have the right to use M$ since 1983........

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Alex Ionescu [e-mail] wrote:
> It's hilarious how this new code has the exact same Windows security bug I gave a talk about at BlackHat 2-3 years ago (which Microsoft fixed in Vista).
>
> It's sad how this code ignores the exported PsSetProcessWindowStation API and relevant EPROCESS field.
>
> It's awesome how nothing changes whenever I prop up to see the "progress".
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Alex Ionescu

[Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo]

"I'm not sure if *M$*[....]

EVIL!!!!!

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 2:23 AM, James Tabor [e-mail]:
> Hi everyone,
> http://www.alex-ionescu.com/ Main Blog,
> http://www.alex-ionescu.com/?p=61 Black Hat 2008 Wrap-up <------- here
> http://www.alex-ionescu.com/BH08-AlexIonescu.pdf <------------------ read
>
> I would like everyone (new Developers) that haven't read this blog to
> do so and get up to date!
>
> I'm not sure if M$ fixed their issues, it may not be Server 2003 but
> at least 2008 plus or 7.
>
> Thanks,
> James
>
> ps I have the right to use M$ since 1983........
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Alex Ionescu [e-mail] wrote:
> > It's hilarious how this new code has the exact same Windows security bug
>
> I gave a talk about at BlackHat 2-3 years ago (which Microsoft fixed in
> Vista).
> > It's sad how this code ignores the exported PsSetProcessWindowStation API
>
> and relevant EPROCESS field.
> > It's awesome how nothing changes whenever I prop up to see the
>
> "progress".
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Alex Ionescu
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Olaf Siejka]

Needless to say, James has a special, Project dispense on using "M$".

:Thanks,
:James
:
:ps I have the right to use M$ since 1983........

[Adam]

Of course I have used the occasional "$M" variable when doing some PHP  
programming...

On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 19:51:43 +1100, Olaf Siejka [e-mail] wrote:
> Needless to say, James has a special, Project dispense on using "M$".
>
> :Thanks,
> :James
> :
> :ps I have the right to use M$ since 1983........
-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary email client: http://www.opera.com/mail/