Re: [ros-dev] Arwinss

Hyperion is riht here; take a look at WINE code then look at ros...WINE appears much more
professional than ros code. Good luck aleksey.
------Original Message------
From: KJK::Hyperion
Sender: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org
To: ReactOS Development List
ReplyTo: ReactOS Development List
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Arwinss
Sent: Jul 20, 2009 8:47 AM

Timo Kreuzer wrote:
>   Wine emulates the kernel through a server. Of cause we
> don't use it,
>  because it has a totally different design. 
Says who? So far, and only counting official implementations, Win32 has
been implemented as:
 - a shared-memory user mode subsystem (Windows 95, 98)
 - a RPC user mode subsystem (Windows NT 3)
 - a kernel mode subsystem (Windows NT 4 and later)
 - ??? (Windows CE)

>   We have an NT kernel and
>  every kernel developer would eat me alive if I tried to put a single
>  line of wine code into our kernel. It's considered crap there. 
Wine code has to pass quality reviews and test suites. ReactOS code only
has to pass the warmth-and-fuzziness test. Wine can prove their code is
right, ReactOS is based on code that feels right

The idea that Wine code is better than ReactOS code really needs to die.
Compared to theirs, our code is sloppy, highly unprofessional and often
inexplicable. We copy the form but tend to completely miss the intent.
Wine development is test-driven and entirely based on intent and end
results, while our development model is, apparently, to dick around in
our spare time pretending we work at Microsoft

>   How do you expect display drivers to work at all?
NT display drivers used to run in user mode with the same identical API,
and probably the same ABI. I'm sure Aleksey will do just fine

>   More hacks on top of the huge pile of hacks? And how
> do you deal with
>  missing functionality in wine code? Shove more code in there? Or ignore
>  it, like if wine doesn't need it, we also don't need it? Or again fork
>  the code? 
I would sell my mother to Carthage for even a fraction of the kind of
application support that Wine enjoys, thank you. My only gripe with
arwinss is that Aleksey beat me to the first landmark controversial side
project
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Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

[Timo Kreuzer]

Just out of curiousity: what wine code and what reactos code were you
looking at, that you come to this conclusion?

yardkarter456(a)gmail.com schrieb:
>   Hyperion is riht here; take a look at WINE code then
> look at ros...WINE appears much more professional than ros code. Good luck aleksey.
>  ------Original Message------
>  From: KJK::Hyperion
>  Sender: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org
>  To: ReactOS Development List
>  ReplyTo: ReactOS Development List
>  Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Arwinss
>  Sent: Jul 20, 2009 8:47 AM
>
>  Timo Kreuzer wrote:
>    
> >   Wine emulates the kernel through a server. Of
> > cause we don't use it,
> >  because it has a totally different design.
> >       
>  Says who? So far, and only counting official implementations, Win32 has
>  been implemented as:
>   - a shared-memory user mode subsystem (Windows 95, 98)
>   - a RPC user mode subsystem (Windows NT 3)
>   - a kernel mode subsystem (Windows NT 4 and later)
>   - ??? (Windows CE)
>
>    
> >   We have an NT kernel and
> >  every kernel developer would eat me alive if I tried to put a single
> >  line of wine code into our kernel. It's considered crap there.
> >       
>  Wine code has to pass quality reviews and test suites. ReactOS code only
>  has to pass the warmth-and-fuzziness test. Wine can prove their code is
>  right, ReactOS is based on code that feels right
>
>  The idea that Wine code is better than ReactOS code really needs to die.
>  Compared to theirs, our code is sloppy, highly unprofessional and often
>  inexplicable. We copy the form but tend to completely miss the intent.
>  Wine development is test-driven and entirely based on intent and end
>  results, while our development model is, apparently, to dick around in
>  our spare time pretending we work at Microsoft
>
>    
> >   How do you expect display drivers to work at
> > all?
> >       
>  NT display drivers used to run in user mode with the same identical API,
>  and probably the same ABI. I'm sure Aleksey will do just fine
>
>    
> >   More hacks on top of the huge pile of hacks? And
> > how do you deal with
> >  missing functionality in wine code? Shove more code in there? Or ignore
> >  it, like if wine doesn't need it, we also don't need it? Or again fork
> >  the code?
> >       
>  I would sell my mother to Carthage for even a fraction of the kind of
>  application support that Wine enjoys, thank you. My only gripe with
>  arwinss is that Aleksey beat me to the first landmark controversial side
>  project
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>
>  Sent on the SprintŽ Now Network from my BlackBerryŽ
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>

It's been awhile since I've looked at the ros code; mostly involved with wine on
os x now. I'll look at the code when I get access to my PC and pull up examples if
nobody beats me to it. Although I have a feeling someone will beat me since I won't be
home for a week.
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

-----Original Message-----
From: Timo Kreuzer <timo.kreuzer(a)web.de>

Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:19:41 
To: <yardkarter456(a)gmail.com>om>; ReactOS Development List<ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Arwinss


Just out of curiousity: what wine code and what reactos code were you
looking at, that you come to this conclusion?

yardkarter456(a)gmail.com schrieb:
>   Hyperion is riht here; take a look at WINE code then
> look at ros...WINE appears much more professional than ros code. Good luck aleksey.
>  ------Original Message------
>  From: KJK::Hyperion
>  Sender: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org
>  To: ReactOS Development List
>  ReplyTo: ReactOS Development List
>  Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Arwinss
>  Sent: Jul 20, 2009 8:47 AM
>
>  Timo Kreuzer wrote:
>    
> >   Wine emulates the kernel through a server. Of
> > cause we don't use it,
> >  because it has a totally different design.
> >      
> >  
>  Says who? So far, and only counting official implementations, Win32 has
>  been implemented as:
>   - a shared-memory user mode subsystem (Windows 95, 98)
>   - a RPC user mode subsystem (Windows NT 3)
>   - a kernel mode subsystem (Windows NT 4 and later)
>   - ??? (Windows CE)
>
>    
> >   We have an NT kernel and
> >  every kernel developer would eat me alive if I tried to put a single
> >  line of wine code into our kernel. It's considered crap there.
> >      
> >  
>  Wine code has to pass quality reviews and test suites. ReactOS code only
>  has to pass the warmth-and-fuzziness test. Wine can prove their code is
>  right, ReactOS is based on code that feels right
>
>  The idea that Wine code is better than ReactOS code really needs to die.
>  Compared to theirs, our code is sloppy, highly unprofessional and often
>  inexplicable. We copy the form but tend to completely miss the intent.
>  Wine development is test-driven and entirely based on intent and end
>  results, while our development model is, apparently, to dick around in
>  our spare time pretending we work at Microsoft
>
>    
> >   How do you expect display drivers to work at
> > all?
> >      
> >  
>  NT display drivers used to run in user mode with the same identical API,
>  and probably the same ABI. I'm sure Aleksey will do just fine
>
>    
> >   More hacks on top of the huge pile of hacks? And
> > how do you deal with
> >  missing functionality in wine code? Shove more code in there? Or ignore
> >  it, like if wine doesn't need it, we also don't need it? Or again fork
> >  the code?
> >      
> >  
>  I would sell my mother to Carthage for even a fraction of the kind of
>  application support that Wine enjoys, thank you. My only gripe with
>  arwinss is that Aleksey beat me to the first landmark controversial side
>  project
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>
>  Sent on the SprintŽ Now Network from my BlackBerryŽ
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>    
>

[KJK::Hyperion]

yardkarter456(a)gmail.com wrote:
>   I'll look at the code when I get access to my PC
> and
>  pull up examples 
Don't