Hi, this message is a bit provocative, but please don't be offended by it. You all did a wonderful work during this year. Thank you!
It's very good to see the work is going on. Just for fun, when I had spare 15 minutes, I decided to check, what was done in the win32 subsystem during this year by the major, respectable and very old time ReactOS developer, and whether my proposal with Arwinss still stands or not.
Here is what I found: (analyzing ~ 62 commits by jimtabor):
- 25 revisions: Fixes/hacks of our code (ReactOS-specific bug, works in Wine, sometimes says in comments "//// ReactOS : Justin Case something goes wrong.") (revs 58528, 58562, 58563, 58633, 58773, 58999, 59000, 59201, 60054, 60587, 60590, 60592, 60622, 60626, 60659, 60676, 60677, 60881, 61078, 61079, 61142, 61250, 61251, 61292, 61458)
- 13 revisions: Syncs with Wine (revs 59157, 59158, 59159, 60763, 60784, 60807, 60820, 60858, 60863, 60865, 60867, 61244, 61422)
- 14 revisions: Own code development or rewriting old code, some of which might have been derived from ancient versions of Wine. (60387, 60389, 60394, 60539, 60599, 60602, 60660, 60682, 60683, 60684, 60718, 60883, 60976, 60992)
- 1 revision: attempt to fix a bug found in Wine (revision 60054, issue CORE-6024)
You don't need to be a scientist to see that 61% of the changes went into fixing ReactOS specific bugs or just bringing in newer Wine code to fix old Wine bugs. Remaining 22% of efforts was spent on actually developing our own, assumingly better code, and just 1 revision was spent on such a glorious thing as fixing Wine's bug.
ReactOS is a just for fun type of project, so I highly appreciate that efforts were put into all of the above! However, I still think that it would be beneficial if someone would put similar efforts into Arwinss to eliminate the need to bring in hacks and fix stuff which works in Wine for years already, and focus on developing only those parts which we obviously can't share (GDI, hardware accelerated graphics, whatever else).
I lack time to do this myself, but if anyone volunteers I would be glad to help, share my experience and think up of interesting tasks. Like, getting Arwinss to work in Windows 2003 instead of its native subsystem, which would be a nice test.
Regards, Aleksey Bragin
Well, some people prefer working on Arwinss, some people prefer working on the old win32 subsystem, some people prefer working on a C++ memory manager ... ;-)
Am 28.12.2013 21:52, schrieb Aleksey Bragin:
Hi, this message is a bit provocative, but please don't be offended by it. You all did a wonderful work during this year. Thank you!
It's very good to see the work is going on. Just for fun, when I had spare 15 minutes, I decided to check, what was done in the win32 subsystem during this year by the major, respectable and very old time ReactOS developer, and whether my proposal with Arwinss still stands or not.
Here is what I found: (analyzing ~ 62 commits by jimtabor):
- 25 revisions: Fixes/hacks of our code (ReactOS-specific bug, works
in Wine, sometimes says in comments "//// ReactOS : Justin Case something goes wrong.") (revs 58528, 58562, 58563, 58633, 58773, 58999, 59000, 59201, 60054, 60587, 60590, 60592, 60622, 60626, 60659, 60676, 60677, 60881, 61078, 61079, 61142, 61250, 61251, 61292, 61458)
- 13 revisions: Syncs with Wine (revs 59157, 59158, 59159, 60763,
60784, 60807, 60820, 60858, 60863, 60865, 60867, 61244, 61422)
- 14 revisions: Own code development or rewriting old code, some of
which might have been derived from ancient versions of Wine. (60387, 60389, 60394, 60539, 60599, 60602, 60660, 60682, 60683, 60684, 60718, 60883, 60976, 60992)
- 1 revision: attempt to fix a bug found in Wine (revision 60054,
issue CORE-6024)
You don't need to be a scientist to see that 61% of the changes went into fixing ReactOS specific bugs or just bringing in newer Wine code to fix old Wine bugs. Remaining 22% of efforts was spent on actually developing our own, assumingly better code, and just 1 revision was spent on such a glorious thing as fixing Wine's bug.
ReactOS is a just for fun type of project, so I highly appreciate that efforts were put into all of the above! However, I still think that it would be beneficial if someone would put similar efforts into Arwinss to eliminate the need to bring in hacks and fix stuff which works in Wine for years already, and focus on developing only those parts which we obviously can't share (GDI, hardware accelerated graphics, whatever else).
I lack time to do this myself, but if anyone volunteers I would be glad to help, share my experience and think up of interesting tasks. Like, getting Arwinss to work in Windows 2003 instead of its native subsystem, which would be a nice test.
Regards, Aleksey Bragin
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Well. Moving forwarded is hard for the weak heart. We strive to survive.
Arwiness will fail.
Testing so far proves this. Without X11 wine could not do the things it can. Seems also, Mac OS does the same thing, filling in those holes that wine lacks. Hacking X11 is the same, you need to know where to place the traces. Stay actively focus there is still more to come into the foreground.
Everyone all around say, "2014 is their year". Let this be ReactOS year!
Happy New Year ReactOS, James
On 12/29/13, Timo Kreuzer timo.kreuzer@web.de wrote:
Well, some people prefer working on Arwinss, some people prefer working on the old win32 subsystem, some people prefer working on a C++ memory manager ... ;-)
Am 28.12.2013 21:52, schrieb Aleksey Bragin:
Hi, this message is a bit provocative, but please don't be offended by it. You all did a wonderful work during this year. Thank you!
It's very good to see the work is going on. Just for fun, when I had spare 15 minutes, I decided to check, what was done in the win32 subsystem during this year by the major, respectable and very old time ReactOS developer, and whether my proposal with Arwinss still stands or not.
Here is what I found: (analyzing ~ 62 commits by jimtabor):
- 25 revisions: Fixes/hacks of our code (ReactOS-specific bug, works
in Wine, sometimes says in comments "//// ReactOS : Justin Case something goes wrong.") (revs 58528, 58562, 58563, 58633, 58773, 58999, 59000, 59201, 60054, 60587, 60590, 60592, 60622, 60626, 60659, 60676, 60677, 60881, 61078, 61079, 61142, 61250, 61251, 61292, 61458)
- 13 revisions: Syncs with Wine (revs 59157, 59158, 59159, 60763,
60784, 60807, 60820, 60858, 60863, 60865, 60867, 61244, 61422)
- 14 revisions: Own code development or rewriting old code, some of
which might have been derived from ancient versions of Wine. (60387, 60389, 60394, 60539, 60599, 60602, 60660, 60682, 60683, 60684, 60718, 60883, 60976, 60992)
- 1 revision: attempt to fix a bug found in Wine (revision 60054,
issue CORE-6024)
You don't need to be a scientist to see that 61% of the changes went into fixing ReactOS specific bugs or just bringing in newer Wine code to fix old Wine bugs. Remaining 22% of efforts was spent on actually developing our own, assumingly better code, and just 1 revision was spent on such a glorious thing as fixing Wine's bug.
ReactOS is a just for fun type of project, so I highly appreciate that efforts were put into all of the above! However, I still think that it would be beneficial if someone would put similar efforts into Arwinss to eliminate the need to bring in hacks and fix stuff which works in Wine for years already, and focus on developing only those parts which we obviously can't share (GDI, hardware accelerated graphics, whatever else).
I lack time to do this myself, but if anyone volunteers I would be glad to help, share my experience and think up of interesting tasks. Like, getting Arwinss to work in Windows 2003 instead of its native subsystem, which would be a nice test.
Regards, Aleksey Bragin
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Thanks, I thought I would end up talking to myself :-)
Well, I totally eliminated X11 out of Wine. It was not that hard really, nearly all good code was in place already, the only thing which I had to develop was a very small "window manager". Literally, which would manage list of windows in the current window station and desktop, and issue redraw messages when certain window gets focus.
"A little flame never killed nobody"
Regards, Aleksey
On 30.12.2013 8:17, James Tabor wrote:
Well. Moving forwarded is hard for the weak heart. We strive to survive.
Arwiness will fail.
Testing so far proves this. Without X11 wine could not do the things it can. Seems also, Mac OS does the same thing, filling in those holes that wine lacks. Hacking X11 is the same, you need to know where to place the traces. Stay actively focus there is still more to come into the foreground.
Everyone all around say, "2014 is their year". Let this be ReactOS year!
Happy New Year ReactOS, James
On 12/29/13, Timo Kreuzer timo.kreuzer@web.de wrote:
Well, some people prefer working on Arwinss, some people prefer working on the old win32 subsystem, some people prefer working on a C++ memory manager ... ;-)
Am 28.12.2013 21:52, schrieb Aleksey Bragin:
Hi, this message is a bit provocative, but please don't be offended by it. You all did a wonderful work during this year. Thank you!
It's very good to see the work is going on. Just for fun, when I had spare 15 minutes, I decided to check, what was done in the win32 subsystem during this year by the major, respectable and very old time ReactOS developer, and whether my proposal with Arwinss still stands or not.
Here is what I found: (analyzing ~ 62 commits by jimtabor):
- 25 revisions: Fixes/hacks of our code (ReactOS-specific bug, works
in Wine, sometimes says in comments "//// ReactOS : Justin Case something goes wrong.") (revs 58528, 58562, 58563, 58633, 58773, 58999, 59000, 59201, 60054, 60587, 60590, 60592, 60622, 60626, 60659, 60676, 60677, 60881, 61078, 61079, 61142, 61250, 61251, 61292, 61458)
- 13 revisions: Syncs with Wine (revs 59157, 59158, 59159, 60763,
60784, 60807, 60820, 60858, 60863, 60865, 60867, 61244, 61422)
- 14 revisions: Own code development or rewriting old code, some of
which might have been derived from ancient versions of Wine. (60387, 60389, 60394, 60539, 60599, 60602, 60660, 60682, 60683, 60684, 60718, 60883, 60976, 60992)
- 1 revision: attempt to fix a bug found in Wine (revision 60054,
issue CORE-6024)
You don't need to be a scientist to see that 61% of the changes went into fixing ReactOS specific bugs or just bringing in newer Wine code to fix old Wine bugs. Remaining 22% of efforts was spent on actually developing our own, assumingly better code, and just 1 revision was spent on such a glorious thing as fixing Wine's bug.
ReactOS is a just for fun type of project, so I highly appreciate that efforts were put into all of the above! However, I still think that it would be beneficial if someone would put similar efforts into Arwinss to eliminate the need to bring in hacks and fix stuff which works in Wine for years already, and focus on developing only those parts which we obviously can't share (GDI, hardware accelerated graphics, whatever else).
I lack time to do this myself, but if anyone volunteers I would be glad to help, share my experience and think up of interesting tasks. Like, getting Arwinss to work in Windows 2003 instead of its native subsystem, which would be a nice test.
Regards, Aleksey Bragin
Hi, Having a version of Wine that could run on top of Windows could have some interesting commercial uses.
If one we were able to take the window manager that Arwinss uses and have it link to the Windows version of the X11 libraries and were be able to display Win32 applications over an X11 session to other clients, it would have the advantage of working better than RDP for Linux and MacOS Thin Clients and be much more compatible with existing applications than a Linux+Wine solution. I would love to have a Linux Terminal Server solution that didn't suck for Windows apps.
Right now using something like LTSP+Wine still sucks, where if we could drop a ReactOS VM or Windows instance to host only those apps that are needed, I know of several people that would use it instead of Wine for their thin-clients.
I think this effort really needs to be done outside of ReactOS itself until it is viable on it's own. I mean if Arwinss is able to independently run on Windows, then certainly ReactOS should run it, however I think for various reasons it is going to be viewed as an extra project outside of the core of ReactOS until it is finished. At least that is the vibe I get from everyone I've ever spoken with about it.
Thanks Steven
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 3:33 AM, Aleksey Bragin aleksey@reactos.org wrote:
Thanks, I thought I would end up talking to myself :-)
Well, I totally eliminated X11 out of Wine. It was not that hard really, nearly all good code was in place already, the only thing which I had to develop was a very small "window manager". Literally, which would manage list of windows in the current window station and desktop, and issue redraw messages when certain window gets focus.
"A little flame never killed nobody"
Regards, Aleksey
On 30.12.2013 8:17, James Tabor wrote:
Well. Moving forwarded is hard for the weak heart. We strive to survive.
Arwiness will fail.
Testing so far proves this. Without X11 wine could not do the things it can. Seems also, Mac OS does the same thing, filling in those holes that wine lacks. Hacking X11 is the same, you need to know where to place the traces. Stay actively focus there is still more to come into the foreground.
Everyone all around say, "2014 is their year". Let this be ReactOS year!
Happy New Year ReactOS, James
On 12/29/13, Timo Kreuzer timo.kreuzer@web.de wrote:
Well, some people prefer working on Arwinss, some people prefer working on the old win32 subsystem, some people prefer working on a C++ memory manager ... ;-)
Am 28.12.2013 21:52, schrieb Aleksey Bragin:
Hi, this message is a bit provocative, but please don't be offended by it. You all did a wonderful work during this year. Thank you!
It's very good to see the work is going on. Just for fun, when I had spare 15 minutes, I decided to check, what was done in the win32 subsystem during this year by the major, respectable and very old time ReactOS developer, and whether my proposal with Arwinss still stands or not.
Here is what I found: (analyzing ~ 62 commits by jimtabor):
- 25 revisions: Fixes/hacks of our code (ReactOS-specific bug, works
in Wine, sometimes says in comments "//// ReactOS : Justin Case something goes wrong.") (revs 58528, 58562, 58563, 58633, 58773, 58999, 59000, 59201, 60054, 60587, 60590, 60592, 60622, 60626, 60659, 60676, 60677, 60881, 61078, 61079, 61142, 61250, 61251, 61292, 61458)
- 13 revisions: Syncs with Wine (revs 59157, 59158, 59159, 60763,
60784, 60807, 60820, 60858, 60863, 60865, 60867, 61244, 61422)
- 14 revisions: Own code development or rewriting old code, some of
which might have been derived from ancient versions of Wine. (60387, 60389, 60394, 60539, 60599, 60602, 60660, 60682, 60683, 60684, 60718, 60883, 60976, 60992)
- 1 revision: attempt to fix a bug found in Wine (revision 60054,
issue CORE-6024)
You don't need to be a scientist to see that 61% of the changes went into fixing ReactOS specific bugs or just bringing in newer Wine code to fix old Wine bugs. Remaining 22% of efforts was spent on actually developing our own, assumingly better code, and just 1 revision was spent on such a glorious thing as fixing Wine's bug.
ReactOS is a just for fun type of project, so I highly appreciate that efforts were put into all of the above! However, I still think that it would be beneficial if someone would put similar efforts into Arwinss to eliminate the need to bring in hacks and fix stuff which works in Wine for years already, and focus on developing only those parts which we obviously can't share (GDI, hardware accelerated graphics, whatever else).
I lack time to do this myself, but if anyone volunteers I would be glad to help, share my experience and think up of interesting tasks. Like, getting Arwinss to work in Windows 2003 instead of its native subsystem, which would be a nice test.
Regards, Aleksey Bragin
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Not a flame war....
Missing pieces, like ATI, window positioning, focus, more, more and the big killer!!! ALT-TAB no where to be seen in wine! So technically you will wind up developing a full blown subsystem anyway. Keeping up with current bug reports this would have been obvious to see. Back to holes in the code which ReactOS eliminated too because it was calling into X11, these missing pieces is why ReactOS fails some tests and more evident application testing. Example, run Click to Send AHK test for notepad on wine. Same results as before with ReactOS. Now with the new patch, it works on ReactOS. Notepad writes and saves to the desktop.
It does seem for me at least, to be a wast of time to push something knowing it will wind up at the very same place one had started. Those holes are big.
Wine is not enough, James
On 12/30/13, Aleksey Bragin aleksey@reactos.org wrote:
Thanks, I thought I would end up talking to myself :-)
Well, I totally eliminated X11 out of Wine. It was not that hard really, nearly all good code was in place already, the only thing which I had to develop was a very small "window manager". Literally, which would manage list of windows in the current window station and desktop, and issue redraw messages when certain window gets focus.
"A little flame never killed nobody"
Regards, Aleksey
On 30.12.2013 8:17, James Tabor wrote:
Well. Moving forwarded is hard for the weak heart. We strive to survive.
Arwiness will fail.
Testing so far proves this. Without X11 wine could not do the things it can. Seems also, Mac OS does the same thing, filling in those holes that wine lacks. Hacking X11 is the same, you need to know where to place the traces. Stay actively focus there is still more to come into the foreground.
Everyone all around say, "2014 is their year". Let this be ReactOS year!
Happy New Year ReactOS, James
On 12/29/13, Timo Kreuzer timo.kreuzer@web.de wrote:
Well, some people prefer working on Arwinss, some people prefer working on the old win32 subsystem, some people prefer working on a C++ memory manager ... ;-)
Am 28.12.2013 21:52, schrieb Aleksey Bragin:
Hi, this message is a bit provocative, but please don't be offended by it. You all did a wonderful work during this year. Thank you!
It's very good to see the work is going on. Just for fun, when I had spare 15 minutes, I decided to check, what was done in the win32 subsystem during this year by the major, respectable and very old time ReactOS developer, and whether my proposal with Arwinss still stands or not.
Here is what I found: (analyzing ~ 62 commits by jimtabor):
- 25 revisions: Fixes/hacks of our code (ReactOS-specific bug, works
in Wine, sometimes says in comments "//// ReactOS : Justin Case something goes wrong.") (revs 58528, 58562, 58563, 58633, 58773, 58999, 59000, 59201, 60054, 60587, 60590, 60592, 60622, 60626, 60659, 60676, 60677, 60881, 61078, 61079, 61142, 61250, 61251, 61292, 61458)
- 13 revisions: Syncs with Wine (revs 59157, 59158, 59159, 60763,
60784, 60807, 60820, 60858, 60863, 60865, 60867, 61244, 61422)
- 14 revisions: Own code development or rewriting old code, some of
which might have been derived from ancient versions of Wine. (60387, 60389, 60394, 60539, 60599, 60602, 60660, 60682, 60683, 60684, 60718, 60883, 60976, 60992)
- 1 revision: attempt to fix a bug found in Wine (revision 60054,
issue CORE-6024)
You don't need to be a scientist to see that 61% of the changes went into fixing ReactOS specific bugs or just bringing in newer Wine code to fix old Wine bugs. Remaining 22% of efforts was spent on actually developing our own, assumingly better code, and just 1 revision was spent on such a glorious thing as fixing Wine's bug.
ReactOS is a just for fun type of project, so I highly appreciate that efforts were put into all of the above! However, I still think that it would be beneficial if someone would put similar efforts into Arwinss to eliminate the need to bring in hacks and fix stuff which works in Wine for years already, and focus on developing only those parts which we obviously can't share (GDI, hardware accelerated graphics, whatever else).
I lack time to do this myself, but if anyone volunteers I would be glad to help, share my experience and think up of interesting tasks. Like, getting Arwinss to work in Windows 2003 instead of its native subsystem, which would be a nice test.
Regards, Aleksey Bragin
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Things I like about arwinss...
I call SWM winman.c window manager, SWiM, due to it reminds me of swimming through a list of windows. Studding this code for months, leaving no stone unturned.
On 12/30/13, Aleksey Bragin aleksey@reactos.org wrote:
Thanks, I thought I would end up talking to myself :-)
Well, I totally eliminated X11 out of Wine. It was not that hard really, nearly all good code was in place already, the only thing which I had to develop was a very small "window manager". Literally, which would manage list of windows in the current window station and desktop, and issue redraw messages when certain window gets focus.
"A little flame never killed nobody"
Regards, Aleksey
I have always insisted that ReactOS should be fully compatible with WINDOWS and work towards, rather than the introduction of other things. ReactOS This is my concern and willingness to contribute rather than the sole reason of other open-source items like WINE. Even I think that the introduction of WINE is not a right decision. (By Google Translate)
Regards, BinSys
At 2013-12-31 01:05:07,"James Tabor" jimtabor.rosdev@gmail.com wrote:
Things I like about arwinss...
I call SWM winman.c window manager, SWiM, due to it reminds me of swimming through a list of windows. Studding this code for months, leaving no stone unturned.
On 12/30/13, Aleksey Bragin aleksey@reactos.org wrote:
Thanks, I thought I would end up talking to myself :-)
Well, I totally eliminated X11 out of Wine. It was not that hard really, nearly all good code was in place already, the only thing which I had to develop was a very small "window manager". Literally, which would manage list of windows in the current window station and desktop, and issue redraw messages when certain window gets focus.
"A little flame never killed nobody"
Regards, Aleksey
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
I'll go out on a limb here and agree with James Tabor to some extent. I've been saying this for quite a while. While ARWINSS is technically interesting, i feel that with limited developer choices, ReactOS should be focused on developing a usable, stable platform. Focus on any target! Windows XP, Windows 7 (7 is typically a good target as app support won't be going away for a while, however Windows XP is good as well), etc. and make it work..and look... great. Make it usable for the every day user, even if it's still alpha quality. You do that, you'll not only get developer backing, but have the satisfaction of having been a part of one of the biggest achievements an open source project has ever accomplished.
Note that the statement I have previously mentioned doesn't technically EXCLUDE ARWINSS...but rather I'm saying to zero in on a specific version of Wine, fork it, optimize it for ReactOS, plug it in, and focus on the bigger problems...like the fact that AMD Catalyst drivers won't install/run.
As some of you well know i've been following (and in some instances in the long past, contributing to) ReactOS. I just want to see it work. I want to see it succeed sometime in my lifetime. The journey has been incredible, but i'd like to see it really take off. The only way it's going to get there is to draw in user interest. Do any of you know exactly how long this project has been under development? I do...i've been with it...and following it...for a VERY long time. Hell, when i first started following this project, i was on dialup and a 386! I was a teenage for crying out loud! Now i am am 31 years old, I have a wife and two daughters and this project still continues forward. Incredible stuff!
If ReactOS were to get to that 'usable' phase, it wouldn't be that hard to get REAL funding to tackle some of the hard stuff...like staying up to date with the latest versions of Windows.
Thanks for reading my rant! Richard Campbell
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 8:21 PM, BinSys binsys@163.com wrote:
I have always insisted that ReactOS should be fully compatible with WINDOWS and work towards, rather than the introduction of other things. ReactOS This is my concern and willingness to contribute rather than the sole reason of other open-source items like WINE. Even I think that the introduction of WINE is not a right decision. (By Google Translate)
Regards, BinSys
At 2013-12-31 01:05:07,"James Tabor" jimtabor.rosdev@gmail.com wrote:
Things I like about arwinss...
I call SWM winman.c window manager, SWiM, due to it reminds me of swimming through a list of windows. Studding this code for months, leaving no stone unturned.
On 12/30/13, Aleksey Bragin aleksey@reactos.org wrote:
Thanks, I thought I would end up talking to myself :-)
Well, I totally eliminated X11 out of Wine. It was not that hard really, nearly all good code was in place already, the only thing which I had to develop was a very small "window manager". Literally, which would manage list of windows in the current window station and desktop, and issue redraw messages when certain window gets focus.
"A little flame never killed nobody"
Regards, Aleksey
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Hey Richard! Nice to see your reply here, and I didn't know that we are nearly same age (I'm turning 31 in approximately twenty four days).
What you are saying actually makes sense. And that's exactly why I did it this way. Present win32 subsystem is a mess consisting from own good code (mainly in win32k - GRE, and some other parts written by Timo/James/Giannis/etc), our own bad code (historical parts derived from ancient Wine, which was/is full of bugs), and just old Wine code which gets adapted into user32/gdi32 pretending to be "proper".
We don't have manpower to even maintain that (as updating that old Wine code involves quite a bit of work, to re-port new Wine code, to backport fixes, etc), and some parts are just unmaintainable (like ported ancient Wine code which just needs to be rewritten). Not to say about doing a proper, full blown win32 subsystem (which is even hard to define because win32ss in Windows is far from being as beautiful as NT kernel is).
Hence I decided to do exactly what you say. I took a Wine version which works, ported it preserving as much arch as possible (thankfully Wine code matured to be good enough for that) and created a new subsystem which is VERY simple to maintain (updating to new Wine versions is a usually few minutes of work and few hours of testing :-) ), and where we utilize rather big manpower behind Wine. And where we don't have hassle with Linux being the underlying layer, we just do it all natively, like Wine's dream.
Understanding all this, and actually seeing how good Arwinss performs already, it would be great to get more people to work on it, as the result of such work is substantially more noticeable than just a few fixes here and there in the present win32ss.
If Reactos continues to be in such unusable state, then it's going to remain in the history as "an os which never took off due to its complexity". I don't want that to happen. Too many people invested their efforts in it to fail so easily.
So let's think, it's just about time.
Regards, Aleksey Bragin
On 31.12.2013 11:03, Richard Campbell wrote:
I'll go out on a limb here and agree with James Tabor to some extent. I've been saying this for quite a while. While ARWINSS is technically interesting, i feel that with limited developer choices, ReactOS should be focused on developing a usable, stable platform. Focus on any target! Windows XP, Windows 7 (7 is typically a good target as app support won't be going away for a while, however Windows XP is good as well), etc. and make it work..and look... great. Make it usable for the every day user, even if it's still alpha quality. You do that, you'll not only get developer backing, but have the satisfaction of having been a part of one of the biggest achievements an open source project has ever accomplished.
Note that the statement I have previously mentioned doesn't technically EXCLUDE ARWINSS...but rather I'm saying to zero in on a specific version of Wine, fork it, optimize it for ReactOS, plug it in, and focus on the bigger problems...like the fact that AMD Catalyst drivers won't install/run.
As some of you well know i've been following (and in some instances in the long past, contributing to) ReactOS. I just want to see it work. I want to see it succeed sometime in my lifetime. The journey has been incredible, but i'd like to see it really take off. The only way it's going to get there is to draw in user interest. Do any of you know exactly how long this project has been under development? I do...i've been with it...and following it...for a VERY long time. Hell, when i first started following this project, i was on dialup and a 386! I was a teenage for crying out loud! Now i am am 31 years old, I have a wife and two daughters and this project still continues forward. Incredible stuff!
If ReactOS were to get to that 'usable' phase, it wouldn't be that hard to get REAL funding to tackle some of the hard stuff...like staying up to date with the latest versions of Windows.
Thanks for reading my rant! Richard Campbell
On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 8:21 PM, BinSys <binsys@163.com mailto:binsys@163.com> wrote:
I have always insisted that ReactOS should be fully compatible with WINDOWS and work towards, rather than the introduction of other things. ReactOS This is my concern and willingness to contribute rather than the sole reason of other open-source items like WINE. Even I think that the introduction of WINE is not a right decision. (By Google Translate) Regards, BinSys At2013-12-31 01 <tel:2013-12-31%C2%A001>:05:07,"James Tabor" <jimtabor.rosdev@gmail.com <mailto:jimtabor.rosdev@gmail.com>> wrote: >Things I like about arwinss... > >I call SWM winman.c window manager, SWiM, due to it reminds me of >swimming through a list of windows. Studding this code for months, >leaving no stone unturned. > >On 12/30/13, Aleksey Bragin <aleksey@reactos.org <mailto:aleksey@reactos.org>> wrote: >> Thanks, I thought I would end up talking to myself :-) >> >> Well, I totally eliminated X11 out of Wine. It was not that hard really, >> nearly all good code was in place already, the only thing which I had to >> develop was a very small "window manager". Literally, which would manage >> list of windows in the current window station and desktop, and issue >> redraw messages when certain window gets focus. >> >> "A little flame never killed nobody" >> >> Regards, >> Aleksey
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Aleksey Bragin -
BinSys -
James Tabor -
Richard Campbell -
Steven Edwards -
Timo Kreuzer