WinFS is dead, like Cairo

[Klemens Friedl]

WinFS is (more or less) dead, it has been announced on their official web blog:
http://blogs.msdn.com/winfs/archive/2006/06/23/644706.aspx

Some useful parts go to SQL Server development branch.
Reminds me of Cairo (early 90-ties), MSFT never achived that task.
Only some parts were integrated as ActiveDirectory in Win2k and
improved OLE in Win 9x/NT.

The Vista search seems to be very same technology as it has been
shipped with WinNT 5.0+ (but deactivated by default). Just a new
frontend has been added which looks more confusing than the WinXP
variant.

The channel9 videos featuring WinFS looks promising, although I heard
(from beta1 testers) the technology was not .

[Reuben Perelman]

Just because Microsoft is not doing it, doesn't mean that we can't.

Klemens Friedl wrote:
>   WinFS is (more or less) dead, it has been announced on
> their official 
web blog:
>  
> http://blogs.msdn.com/winfs/archive/2006/06/23/644706.aspx
>
>  Some useful parts go to SQL Server development branch.
>  Reminds me of Cairo (early 90-ties), MSFT never achived that task.
>  Only some parts were integrated as ActiveDirectory in Win2k and
>  improved OLE in Win 9x/NT.
>
>  The Vista search seems to be very same technology as it has been
>  shipped with WinNT 5.0+ (but deactivated by default). Just a new
>  frontend has been added which looks more confusing than the WinXP
>  variant.
>
>  The channel9 videos featuring WinFS looks promising, although I heard
>  (from beta1 testers) the technology was not .
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

[Peter Dolding]

I personally think a MS developer just lost the nerve most likely will 
be beaten back into them .  Winfs might have been lacking in speed and 
function when put head to head with the open source ones.  Beagle and 
other systems have not helped either.  So they have had to come up with 
a new spin.
http://www.microsoft.com/sql/letter.mspx
*/
Your Data, Any Place, Any Time.
/*
Ok does anyone really think the linux people cannot do this one.

Options http://relfs.sourceforge.net/ unstable and lacking. 
http://www.hampusdb.org/ functional.  Question how to fit it.

Mysql style Winfs http://www.ritmark.com/.  Function for Windows and 
Linux.  Requirement of mysql.
Note we could ship ritmark with reactos no problems.  Mind you I would 
like more databases supported just so we are not locked to one.

Peter Dolding

Reuben Perelman wrote:
>   Just because Microsoft is not doing it, doesn't
> mean that we can't.
>
>  Klemens Friedl wrote:
>    
> >   WinFS is (more or less) dead, it has been
> > announced on their official
> >       
>  web blog:
>    
> >  
> > http://blogs.msdn.com/winfs/archive/2006/06/23/644706.aspx
> >
> >  Some useful parts go to SQL Server development branch.
> >  Reminds me of Cairo (early 90-ties), MSFT never achived that task.
> >  Only some parts were integrated as ActiveDirectory in Win2k and
> >  improved OLE in Win 9x/NT.
> >
> >  The Vista search seems to be very same technology as it has been
> >  shipped with WinNT 5.0+ (but deactivated by default). Just a new
> >  frontend has been added which looks more confusing than the WinXP
> >  variant.
> >
> >  The channel9 videos featuring WinFS looks promising, although I heard
> >  (from beta1 testers) the technology was not .
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Ros-dev mailing list
> >  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> >  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> >
> >       
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>

[Rick Langschultz]

I have been empasizing a database backend to the reactos file system  
for a very very long time. Whenever i brought that idea up in the  
freenode room it was shot down. I was thinking about using the MySQL  
database server software to index files less than 20mb. The Indexing  
system would allow finding files quicker, easier, and provide a  
metadata backend to reactos explorers interface. MySQL or Postgresql  
would be awesome at this type of system process. Both are  
lightweight, can be embedded, and can provide the system with a great  
indexing engine. Most operating systems use some sort of indexing  
service if one isn't built into the file system. For example:  
Microsoft's Indexing Service, Apples: Spotlight "technology". Also a  
great File System was BeFS which was on the BEOS operating system. I  
want to see ZFS enabled as a FS for reactos. I was thinking something  
like RFS could be ushered in. Another way to make this secure with  
FAT or FAT32 would be including a locking function in the indexing  
engine that would look at the files owner or group and preventing  
access both through explorer or the terminal (Command Shell). This  
can incorporate indexing with secure database tables such as InnoDB  
with locking capabilities. Providing Explorer checks the file before  
accessing it, this would provide adequate security which can be built  
upon in the future. This engine can also incorporate Clustering  
capabilities for Workgroup/domain type situation for roving profiles  
or the like. Coupled with an OpenLDAP engine or a fake AD interface  
this would allow ReactOS to reach the server market in a different  
flavor ie: ReactOS Server Edition or Workgroup Controller edition.

Just some ideas...

On Jun 25, 2006, at 6:44 AM, Reuben Perelman wrote:

>   Just because Microsoft is not doing it, doesn't
> mean that we can't.
>
>  Klemens Friedl wrote:
> >   WinFS is (more or less) dead, it has been
> > announced on their official 
>  web blog:
> >  
> > http://blogs.msdn.com/winfs/archive/2006/06/23/644706.aspx
> >
> >  Some useful parts go to SQL Server development branch.
> >  Reminds me of Cairo (early 90-ties), MSFT never achived that task.
> >  Only some parts were integrated as ActiveDirectory in Win2k and
> >  improved OLE in Win 9x/NT.
> >
> >  The Vista search seems to be very same technology as it has been
> >  shipped with WinNT 5.0+ (but deactivated by default). Just a new
> >  frontend has been added which looks more confusing than the WinXP
> >  variant.
> >
> >  The channel9 videos featuring WinFS looks promising, although I heard
> >  (from beta1 testers) the technology was not .
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Ros-dev mailing list
> >  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> >  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> >  
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Peter Dolding]

Nice ideas.  Fat and Fat32 cannot really be made safe even with a 
database overlay.  Security attributes really have to be in the 
filesystem meta data (xattr under linux) at least. Reason meta data will 
get deleted with file entry in a database might not.  If database gets 
out of sync with filesystem and its security its a big problem.

If database is holding more information than what can be stored in the 
filesystem meta data.  Extra info about files if its stuffed up is not a 
problem.  Ok the file is a mp3 by X but it is a mp3 by y.  This annoying 
to user but not security problem.  Permissions and the same thing 
happens is big trouble.

Microsoft Indexing is flawed.  Beagle's targeted indexing is the way to 
do it with out being a .net program like beagle.  Index the users own 
directorys do not index the temp directory or applications if we can.  
Ie targeted indexing.

ZFS will be a while down the road at least.  I have stated my reasons 
may times.  Ie we need one working fully secure filesystem first before 
going after dreams ZFS is not even done by linux yet.  Tech great.  
Limited platform support at this time.  No need to rush after it yet.  
Ext2/3 support part way done might as well complete that and move on.

And to you really think every application is going to check with 
explorer before accessing anything.  My zip program 7-zip has a explorer 
in it too that can start programs.

Server version most likely be a samba server version 4 ported to Reactos.

Peter Dolding
Rick Langschultz wrote:
>   I have been empasizing a database backend to the
> reactos file system  
>  for a very very long time. Whenever i brought that idea up in the  
>  freenode room it was shot down. I was thinking about using the MySQL  
>  database server software to index files less than 20mb. The Indexing  
>  system would allow finding files quicker, easier, and provide a  
>  metadata backend to reactos explorers interface. MySQL or Postgresql  
>  would be awesome at this type of system process. Both are  
>  lightweight, can be embedded, and can provide the system with a great  
>  indexing engine. Most operating systems use some sort of indexing  
>  service if one isn't built into the file system. For example:  
>  Microsoft's Indexing Service, Apples: Spotlight "technology". Also a  
>  great File System was BeFS which was on the BEOS operating system. I  
>  want to see ZFS enabled as a FS for reactos. I was thinking something  
>  like RFS could be ushered in. Another way to make this secure with  
>  FAT or FAT32 would be including a locking function in the indexing  
>  engine that would look at the files owner or group and preventing  
>  access both through explorer or the terminal (Command Shell). This  
>  can incorporate indexing with secure database tables such as InnoDB  
>  with locking capabilities. Providing Explorer checks the file before  
>  accessing it, this would provide adequate security which can be built  
>  upon in the future. This engine can also incorporate Clustering  
>  capabilities for Workgroup/domain type situation for roving profiles  
>  or the like. Coupled with an OpenLDAP engine or a fake AD interface  
>  this would allow ReactOS to reach the server market in a different  
>  flavor ie: ReactOS Server Edition or Workgroup Controller edition.
>
>  Just some ideas..