Re: [ros-svn] [gvg] 20062: Files to create Mozilla Control installer with correct DLL

[David Hinz]

Can't we include Mozilla Control in ReactOS? So that we build it with 
our ROS Build Environment or whatever is used to compile ReactOS, put it 
on bootcd and install it with ReactOS?

Greets,

David Hinz

gvg(a)svn.reactos.com schrieb:
>   Files to create Mozilla Control installer with correct
> DLL
>  
>  
>  
>  Added files:
>  trunk/tools/
>  trunk/tools/MozillaControl/
>  trunk/tools/MozillaControl/README.txt
>  trunk/tools/MozillaControl/control-ros.nsi
>  trunk/tools/MozillaControl/files.nsh
>  trunk/tools/MozillaControl/local.nsh
>  trunk/tools/MozillaControl/redist/
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-svn mailing list
>  Ros-svn(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-svn
>

[Casper Hornstrup]

It's too complex to build.

>   -----Original Message-----
>  From: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of David
> Hinz
>  Sent: 11. december 2005 12:42
>  To: ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  Subject: [ros-dev] Re: [ros-svn] [gvg] 20062: Files to create Mozilla Control installer
> with
>  correct DLL
>  
>  Can't we include Mozilla Control in ReactOS? So that we build it with
>  our ROS Build Environment or whatever is used to compile ReactOS, put it
>  on bootcd and install it with ReactOS?
>  
>  Greets,
>  
>  David Hinz

[David Hinz]

Well, as GvG just uploaded a fixed version of the Mozilla Control to 
sourceforge I think it should be okay for now, but for releases like 
0.3.0 we maybe could include the Mozilla Control on bootcd (put the 
precompiled Mozilla Control installer GvG just built somewhere in 
reactos/media or something like that), I don't know who big it is...

Greets,

David Hinz

Casper Hornstrup schrieb:
>   It's too complex to build.
>  
> >   -----Original Message-----
> >  From: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of David
> > Hinz
> >  Sent: 11. december 2005 12:42
> >  To: ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> >  Subject: [ros-dev] Re: [ros-svn] [gvg] 20062: Files to create Mozilla Control installer
> > with
> >  correct DLL
> >
> >  Can't we include Mozilla Control in ReactOS? So that we build it with
> >  our ROS Build Environment or whatever is used to compile ReactOS, put it
> >  on bootcd and install it with ReactOS?
> >
> >  Greets,
> >
> >  David Hinz 
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

[Ge van Geldorp]

>   From: David Hinz
>  
>  Well, as GvG just uploaded a fixed version of the Mozilla 
>  Control to sourceforge I think it should be okay for now, but 
>  for releases like 0.3.0 we maybe could include the Mozilla 
>  Control on bootcd (put the precompiled Mozilla Control 
>  installer GvG just built somewhere in reactos/media or 
>  something like that), I don't know who big it is... 
It's about 5MB, so it would add about 1/3 of the current .iso size. The best
way IMO would be to handle this via the package manager.

I've been thinking about this for a while now. At the moment, we distribute
2 .isos, the BootCD and the LiveCD. I'd like to change these (eventually) to
a MinBootCD and a FullBootLiveCD. The MinBootCD would basically be the same
as our current BootCD, just the bare minimum OS and the package manager,
allowing you to download more stuff. The FullBootLiveCD would be a
combination of live CD and installable CD, on startup it would ask you to
select either "Live" or "Install". The "Install" choice
would then lead you
to a fully graphical installer (replacing the blue-screen first stage
USETUP). This FullBootLiveCD (we'll need to think about a better name...)
would also include some open source packages, ready to install using the
package manager.

Thoughts, anyone? And please skip the "you should definitely include
such-and-such package on the CD" for now.

Gé van Geldorp.

[Casper Hornstrup]

>   -----Original Message-----
>  From: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Ge
> van Geldorp
>  Sent: 11. december 2005 13:24
>  To: 'ReactOS Development List'
>  Subject: [ros-dev] Software distribution
>  
> >   From: David Hinz
> >
> >  Well, as GvG just uploaded a fixed version of the Mozilla
> >  Control to sourceforge I think it should be okay for now, but
> >  for releases like 0.3.0 we maybe could include the Mozilla
> >  Control on bootcd (put the precompiled Mozilla Control
> >  installer GvG just built somewhere in reactos/media or
> >  something like that), I don't know who big it is... 
>  
>  It's about 5MB, so it would add about 1/3 of the current .iso size. The best
>  way IMO would be to handle this via the package manager.
>  
>  I've been thinking about this for a while now. At the moment, we distribute
>  2 .isos, the BootCD and the LiveCD. I'd like to change these (eventually) to
>  a MinBootCD and a FullBootLiveCD. The MinBootCD would basically be the same
>  as our current BootCD, just the bare minimum OS and the package manager,
>  allowing you to download more stuff. The FullBootLiveCD would be a
>  combination of live CD and installable CD, on startup it would ask you to
>  select either "Live" or "Install". The "Install" choice
> would then lead you
>  to a fully graphical installer (replacing the blue-screen first stage
>  USETUP). This FullBootLiveCD (we'll need to think about a better name...)
>  would also include some open source packages, ready to install using the
>  package manager.
>  
>  Thoughts, anyone? And please skip the "you should definitely include
>  such-and-such package on the CD" for now.
>  
>  Gé van Geldorp. 
+1 to that. I'd like to keep the boot CD simple by not including every open
source application on earth. You get an OS (Core ReactOS), not a Linux like
distribution. It also makes regression testing easier as you need to download
less from http://svn.reactos.org/iso. It also requires less time to build
them. Then there is the FullBootLiveCD which would be more similar to a Linux
distribution with third party applications. There is however, depending on the
number of applications, a lot of work maintaining these packages. I think if
there is no one to maintain a particular application, then it should be dropped
from the distribution. I think it is not fair to the users to receive outdated
software, possibly with known security vulnerabilities.

Casper

[David Hinz]

Seems to be a good idea, I just thought of including Mozilla Control, 
because it is a very basic application. Some people even need a 
webbrowser to set up their firewall/router... so that they can access 
the internet. This aren't many people, but you never know who uses this 
OS. And I didn't want to include Mozilla control in trunk, just in 
branches like the one for 0.3.0, at least at this point.

Greets,

David Hinz

Casper Hornstrup schrieb:
>   
>  +1 to that. I'd like to keep the boot CD simple by not including  
every open
>   source application on earth. You get an OS (Core
> ReactOS), not a Linux like
>  distribution. It also makes regression testing easier as you need to download
>  less from http://svn.reactos.org/iso. It also requires less time to build
>  them. Then there is the FullBootLiveCD which would be more similar to a Linux
>  distribution with third party applications. There is however, depending on the
>  number of applications, a lot of work maintaining these packages. I think if
>  there is no one to maintain a particular application, then it should be dropped
>  from the distribution. I think it is not fair to the users to receive outdated
>  software, possibly with known security vulnerabilities.
>  
>  Casper
>  
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

[Ged Murphy]

Casper Hornstrup wrote:
>   I think if there is no one to maintain a particular
> application, then it should be dropped
>  from the distribution. I think it is not fair to the users to receive outdated
>  software, possibly with known security vulnerabilities.
>     
I would be willing to maintain any network based applications.

Ged.

[Bernd Blaauw]

Ge van Geldorp schreef:
>   combination of live CD and installable CD, on startup
> it would ask you to
>  select either "Live" or "Install". The "Install" choice
> would then lead you
>  to a fully graphical installer (replacing the blue-screen first stage
>  USETUP). This FullBootLiveCD (we'll need to think about a better name...)
>  would also include some open source packages, ready to install using the
>  package manager.
>     
Why not boot into the LiveCD, then start installation process from there.
After all, memory footprint consists of (estimated):
1) ReactOS basic system (16MB or so?)
2) LiveCD GUI (explorer.exe) (4MB or so?)
3) Usetup (4MB or so?)

Install CD: uses [1] and [3], total 20MB
LiveCD: uses [1] and [2], total 20MB.

I don't see any reason not to combine these 2, except if 4MB matter:
LiveCD (20MB) + Usetup program (4MB) running from the LiveCD desktop 
environment --> total of 24MB
>   Thoughts, anyone? And please skip the "you should
> definitely include
>  such-and-such package on the CD" for now.
>     
If directory name requirements don't conflict, you can already put both 
the LiveCD and Install CD together on a single CD/DVD by using Isolinux.
Currently both CDs use the directory named "REACTOS" for their files, no 
ideas how flexible ReactOS system files are.

Just a user opinion,
>   Gé van Geldorp.
>     
Bernd Blaauw

-- 
Efficiency is intelligent lazyness

[Ge van Geldorp]

>   From: Bernd Blaauw
>  
>  Why not boot into the LiveCD, then start installation process 
>  from there.
>  After all, memory footprint consists of (estimated):
>  1) ReactOS basic system (16MB or so?)
>  2) LiveCD GUI (explorer.exe) (4MB or so?)
>  3) Usetup (4MB or so?) 
I wasn't worried about the memory footprint, more about the .iso size.
Providing a minimal .iso allows even people on dial-up to download it.

GvG

[David Hinz]

That's similar to the way I would do it: Create a livecd where you can 
choose in freeldr whether you want to boot into livecd or an install, 
but infact the install would be a ReactOS live-session, but instead of 
explorer.exe it would start a graphical installer.
Despite the fact, that we would have to create a graphical installer, 
this should be easy to implement and such an installer could be very 
easily reused for updating ReactOS and always provides the same 
interface to the user.

Greets,

David Hinz

Bernd Blaauw schrieb:
>   Ge van Geldorp schreef:
> >   combination of live CD and installable CD, on
> > startup it would ask you to
> >  select either "Live" or "Install". The "Install" choice
> > would then 
> >  lead you
> >  to a fully graphical installer (replacing the blue-screen first stage
> >  USETUP). This FullBootLiveCD (we'll need to think about a better name...)
> >  would also include some open source packages, ready to install using the
> >  package manager.
> >     
>  Why not boot into the LiveCD, then start installation process from there.
>  After all, memory footprint consists of (estimated):
>  1) ReactOS basic system (16MB or so?)
>  2) LiveCD GUI (explorer.exe) (4MB or so?)
>  3) Usetup (4MB or so?)
>  
>  Install CD: uses [1] and [3], total 20MB
>  LiveCD: uses [1] and [2], total 20MB.
>  
>  I don't see any reason not to combine these 2, except if 4MB matter:
>  LiveCD (20MB) + Usetup program (4MB) running from the LiveCD desktop 
>  environment --> total of 24MB
> >   Thoughts, anyone? And please skip the "you
> > should definitely include
> >  such-and-such package on the CD" for now.
> >     
>  If directory name requirements don't conflict, you can already put both 
>  the LiveCD and Install CD together on a single CD/DVD by using Isolinux.
>  Currently both CDs use the directory named "REACTOS" for their files, no 
>  ideas how flexible ReactOS system files are.
>  
>  Just a user opinion,
> >   Gé van Geldorp.
> >     
>  Bernd Blaauw
>

[Klemens Friedl]

Good idea GvG.

My ideas:

1) BootCD
2) MiniBootCD
3) LiveCD (aka ReactOS PE)


1)
* the LiveCD provide the graphical part1 setup runtine (like in WinVista)
* the ReactOS Package Manager will allow to choose from default settings for
home, business/professional, laptop, server, cluster, etc. and also provide
an expert mode with several option dialogs.
* a simple wizard gui that will allow to click on a default setting and then
the package manager will first search on the cd itself (if there are the
packages from the setting list located) and then try to connect to the net
and download the required files and install and manage the settings, icons
and account rights. (everything without any user interaction!)
* After a some minutes the pc will reboot and you will be able to use
ReactOS (with all selected packages).

2)
like the current bootcd, text mode part1 setup. package manager will be
available while/after part2 (graphical) setup.

3)
ReactOS PE, like the current livecd + rosapps application files


P.S.: it will/should be possible to add some packages plus a "setting" file
to the BootCD, to make your own unique cd's for your personal requirements.


.. and for open source cd's / distros. Although i don't see the need for a
ros distro, there are also no (real) *BSD distros. GNU/Linux has a lot of
distros. Linux is only the itself kernel. Imagine a linux kernel based
system without the GNU tools/apps, x-window server/client, desktop manager,
etc. Whereas *BSD come with some tools and apps preinstalled.

The conclusion:
GNU/Linux -> distros
*BSD -> no distros
ReactOS -> package manager ;-)

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