New OS built on ReactOS and WinuxOS technology!

[Rafal Kupiec]

Hi...
I'm from BetaComp Team and I with all team members are making new
operating system that will be compatible with Windows NT. It will also
have Posix and its own sybsystems. It's based on knowed for most people
project named ReactOS and our previously project named WinuxOS. More
about HostiliX you can read on www.betacomp.info web page in Our
projects sections.

Actually we're working on v0.1. When we done do it we will publish
binary version and all source code.

Currently we're looking for people who knows C/C++ or Assembler and
wants to help us. If you have a free time, please help us and join to
our team!

Contact: rafkup(a)gmail.com

[Ge van Geldorp]

>   From: Rafal Kupiec
>  
>  Hi...
>  I'm from BetaComp Team and I with all team members are making 
>  new operating system that will be compatible with Windows NT. 
>  It will also have Posix and its own sybsystems. It's based on 
>  knowed for most people project named ReactOS and our 
>  previously project named WinuxOS. More about HostiliX you can 
>  read on www.betacomp.info web page in Our projects sections. 
Hello Rafal,

You're more than welcome to base a new free OS on ReactOS, that's what free
software is all about. But I wonder, what would you like to add that you
feel cannot be added to ReactOS? Wouldn't it be better to join forces and
make ReactOS better?

Gé van Geldorp.

[Rafal Kupiec]

I don't understand yours policy. Maybe HostiliX is compatible with
Windows and based on ReactOS, but we don't want to do Windows NT clone,
that ReactOS is. HostiliX will only support for Windows apps and
drivers. It will also have its' own subsystem.


Ge van Geldorp wrote:
> >  From: Rafal
> > Kupiec
> >
> > Hi...
> > I'm from BetaComp Team and I with all team members are making 
> > new operating system that will be compatible with Windows NT. 
> > It will also have Posix and its own sybsystems. It's based on 
> > knowed for most people project named ReactOS and our 
> > previously project named WinuxOS. More about HostiliX you can 
> > read on www.betacomp.info web page in Our projects sections. 
>  
>  
>  Hello Rafal,
>  
>  You're more than welcome to base a new free OS on ReactOS, that's what free
>  software is all about. But I wonder, what would you like to add that you
>  feel cannot be added to ReactOS? Wouldn't it be better to join forces and
>  make ReactOS better?
>  
>  Gé van Geldorp.

[Ge van Geldorp]

>   From: Rafal Kupiec
>  
>  I don't understand yours policy. Maybe HostiliX is compatible 
>  with Windows and based on ReactOS, but we don't want to do 
>  Windows NT clone, that ReactOS is. HostiliX will only support 
>  for Windows apps and drivers. It will also have its' own subsystem. 
Ok, you don't want to clone MS Windows, but it's totally unclear to me what
you do want to do then. Doesn't supporting Windows apps and drivers kind of
imply that you're going to follow the Windows architecture? What features
will HostiliX have besides the support for Windows apps and drivers?

Writing your own subsystem is something you could do inside the ReactOS
project.

Gé van Geldorp.

[Rafal Kupiec]

We're going to follow Windows arch, becouse Windows isn't really bad OS,
It only often hangs up. Making HostiliX we want to do new OS that will
be able to run Windows Applications and drivers. Why? There's a lot of
great programs and I think the most drivers for this OS (eg. there's no
drovers for Canon i560 pronter for Linux). All hardware manufacturers do
drivers for Windows, so we want to HostiliX be able to support them.

Why we don't help ReactOS to make it better?
We hate your policy. You want to do Windows NT clone, so must you do
for. example explorer? Cannot you do any other application? A few days
ago I asked on ReactOS forum why your Task Manager looks buggy? e7
answered me: "Because ReactOS is still a alpha version (0.3svn), and the
developers have other things todo (extend API, let applications and
drivers work...)" It's your policy, that I don't understand. Why are you
doing new think incompletelly? You want to do all at the same time! But
we want to do less than you but better. We'll not help you, becouse we
don't want to repair your bugs(eg. taskmgr). Why taskmgr is buggy?
Becouse someone who developed it stoped working on it and I think start
working on somethink else. I personally don't do all system ingredients.
I do only one thing.


Ge van Geldorp wrote:
> >  From: Rafal
> > Kupiec
> >
> > I don't understand yours policy. Maybe HostiliX is compatible 
> > with Windows and based on ReactOS, but we don't want to do 
> > Windows NT clone, that ReactOS is. HostiliX will only support 
> > for Windows apps and drivers. It will also have its' own subsystem. 
>  
>  
>  Ok, you don't want to clone MS Windows, but it's totally unclear to me what
>  you do want to do then. Doesn't supporting Windows apps and drivers kind of
>  imply that you're going to follow the Windows architecture? What features
>  will HostiliX have besides the support for Windows apps and drivers?
>  
>  Writing your own subsystem is something you could do inside the ReactOS
>  project.
>  
>  Gé van Geldorp.

[Alex Ionescu]

Rafal Kupiec wrote:

>  We're going to follow Windows arch, becouse Windows
> isn't really bad OS,
> It only often hangs up. Making HostiliX we want to do new OS that will
> be able to run Windows Applications and drivers. 
>  
That's what ReactOS is.

>  Why? There's a lot of
> great programs and I think the most drivers for this OS (eg. there's no
> drovers for Canon i560 pronter for Linux). All hardware manufacturers do
> drivers for Windows, so we want to HostiliX be able to support them.
>   
>  
That's what ReactOS is.

>  Why we don't help ReactOS to make it better?
> We hate your policy. You want to do Windows NT clone, so must you do
> for. example explorer? Cannot you do any other application?
>  
You don't want us to use explorer? I don't understand. Explorer is the 
shell on Windows, so we must clone it so that users can feel at home.

>   A few days
> ago I asked on ReactOS forum why your Task Manager looks buggy? e7
> answered me: "Because ReactOS is still a alpha version (0.3svn), and the
> developers have other things todo (extend API, let applications and
> drivers work...)" 
>  
Actually it's because of some bugs in Win32K that aren't our priority 
right now. If you copy our code your taskmgr will have the same bug. Run 
it in windows, and you'll see it runs excellent.

>  It's your policy, that I don't understand. Why
> are you
> doing new think incompletelly?
>  
Taskmgr is 100% complete. Try it in windows. Win32K took Microsoft years 
to finish, and still has bugs. So does ours. We are in alpha version, 
it's normal.

>   You want to do all at the same time! 
>  
The design of Windows requires a minimal amount of things to be ready 
simulatanously. We can't say "ok guys, let's work 100% on the kernel for 
the next 2 years". Window's design doesn't allow that, which is why we 
needed to work 50% on everything and then improve bit by bit.

>  But
> we want to do less than you but better. We'll not help you, becouse we
> don't want to repair your bugs(eg. taskmgr). 
>  
If you take our GPL Code and "not help us" (ie: not re-release your 
modified sources) then you are committing copyright infringement and 
violating the GPL license. I thought you want to make an OS, not go to 
jail...

>  Why taskmgr is buggy?
>   
>  
I just told you.

>  Becouse someone who developed it stoped working on it
> and I think start
> working on somethink else.
>  
No, taskmgr is not buggy. The developer stopped working on it because it 
works. If you don't understand that this is because of win32k, you 
shouldn't be coding a Windows OS.

>   I personally don't do all system ingredients.
> I do only one thing.
>   
>  
Good luck. Works for monolithic kernels. Won't work for a micro-kernel 
subsystem architecture like NT.

Best regards,
Alex Ionescu
Kernel Developer, ReactOS

[Rafal Kupiec]

1) Win32k.sys is buggy, but TaskMgr is buggy too - performance card. We
repaired it and it displays correctly on ReactOS.

2) You can use our code. It will be published on GPL.

3) Yeah, explorer is Windows shell. But you musn't clone it. You can do
somethink else, somethink better, somethink, what will can reply Explorer.

4) We'll not help you by commiting patches to your SVN or submiting to
you diffs. If you want, you can use our code. It will be published on
SVN server on GNU General Public License.


Alex Ionescu wrote:
>   Rafal Kupiec wrote:
>  
> >   We're going to follow Windows arch, becouse
> > Windows isn't really bad OS,
> >  It only often hangs up. Making HostiliX we want to do new OS that will
> >  be able to run Windows Applications and drivers. 
>  
>  That's what ReactOS is.
>  
> >   Why? There's a lot of
> >  great programs and I think the most drivers for this OS (eg. there's no
> >  drovers for Canon i560 pronter for Linux). All hardware manufacturers do
> >  drivers for Windows, so we want to HostiliX be able to support them.
> >   
> >  
>  That's what ReactOS is.
>  
> >   Why we don't help ReactOS to make it better?
> >  We hate your policy. You want to do Windows NT clone, so must you do
> >  for. example explorer? Cannot you do any other application?
> >  
>  You don't want us to use explorer? I don't understand. Explorer is the
>  shell on Windows, so we must clone it so that users can feel at home.
>  
> >   A few days
> >  ago I asked on ReactOS forum why your Task Manager looks buggy? e7
> >  answered me: "Because ReactOS is still a alpha version (0.3svn), and the
> >  developers have other things todo (extend API, let applications and
> >  drivers work...)" 
>  
>  Actually it's because of some bugs in Win32K that aren't our priority
>  right now. If you copy our code your taskmgr will have the same bug. Run
>  it in windows, and you'll see it runs excellent.
>  
> >   It's your policy, that I don't
> > understand. Why are you
> >  doing new think incompletelly?
> >  
>  Taskmgr is 100% complete. Try it in windows. Win32K took Microsoft years
>  to finish, and still has bugs. So does ours. We are in alpha version,
>  it's normal.
>  
> >   You want to do all at the same time! 
>  
>  The design of Windows requires a minimal amount of things to be ready
>  simulatanously. We can't say "ok guys, let's work 100% on the kernel for
>  the next 2 years". Window's design doesn't allow that, which is why we
>  needed to work 50% on everything and then improve bit by bit.
>  
> >   But
> >  we want to do less than you but better. We'll not help you, becouse we
> >  don't want to repair your bugs(eg. taskmgr). 
>  
>  If you take our GPL Code and "not help us" (ie: not re-release your
>  modified sources) then you are committing copyright infringement and
>  violating the GPL license. I thought you want to make an OS, not go to
>  jail...
>  
> >   Why taskmgr is buggy?
> >   
> >  
>  I just told you.
>  
> >   Becouse someone who developed it stoped working
> > on it and I think start
> >  working on somethink else.
> >  
>  No, taskmgr is not buggy. The developer stopped working on it because it
>  works. If you don't understand that this is because of win32k, you
>  shouldn't be coding a Windows OS.
>  
> >   I personally don't do all system
> > ingredients.
> >  I do only one thing.
> >   
> >  
>  Good luck. Works for monolithic kernels. Won't work for a micro-kernel
>  subsystem architecture like NT.
>  
>  Best regards,
>  Alex Ionescu
>  Kernel Developer, ReactOS

[Ge van Geldorp]

Maybe it's a cultural difference, maybe it's because we're both not native
English speakers, maybe I'm just too sensitive, but.... I think your posts
sound a bit aggressive. I'm wondering why? What did ReactOS do to deserve
that tone/attitude?

>   4) We'll not help you by commiting patches to your
> SVN or 
>  submiting to you diffs. 
You do realize that this will also mean that, as time goes by, it will
become harder and harder for you to merge in bugfixes from ReactOS into your
project, since the source bases will drift apart?

Gé van Geldorp.

[Rafal Kupiec]

Maybe my posts sounds a bit aggressive, but I didn't want to write
aggressive posts. Maybe it's that, becouse English isn't my strong side?
I'm not attacking ReactOS. I only write about us project. Maybe is here
someone, who wants to help us make HostiliX really good OS?

I know that maybe sounds funny: We're making OS based on ReactOS and
don't want to help make ReactOS better. But we don't like Windows. We
don't want to do all Windows applications. We want to do completelly new
OS, that will be albe to run Windows applications and use Windows
drivers. None more. We want to do stable, fast operating system. It will
have its own API (subsystem) and for example Posix subsystem. HostiliX
have only Windows base software. It'll not looks like Windows. It's only
architecture and directory structure.

What we don't like in ReactOS? What disturb us?
1) New XML build system. I heared that it should be faster, but it
isn't. After compilation files have 2-3x more size. Standard makefiles
was better.
2) Making ReactOS Windows style. For eg. why do you implementing
explorer to ReactOS? It musn't be there. But, you can write your own
shell. It can looks like any existing shell (eg. Gnome, KDE, LiteStep).
Why just Windows? Is it the most beautifull Operating System?
3) Why all system is compressed to cabinet (CAB) file? Becouse Windows
uses this compresion. Why are you doing all like Microsoft? Is Bill
Gates paying you for cloning his OS? There's better, more beautifull and
 with more capabilities shelles. And all of them are user-friendly!

2/3) You want to do Windows clone, becouse the most poeple use it. So,
you want to do free Widnows. But we want to do completelly new OS, that
what I said it will be able to run Widnows apps and load windows
drivers. That's all. Of course we can cooperate if you want. You can get
our patches from HostiliX's SVN and we can get your patches from
ReactOS's SVN.

Actually we're only looking for people who symphatetic our idea to make
completelly new OS (somethink like modified Windows). On most forum
boards where are Windows Customization sections you can see Windows with
Aqua style (they're changing Windows to look like MacOS or Linux)



Ge van Geldorp wrote:
>   Maybe it's a cultural difference, maybe it's
> because we're both not native
>  English speakers, maybe I'm just too sensitive, but.... I think your posts
>  sound a bit aggressive. I'm wondering why? What did ReactOS do to deserve
>  that tone/attitude?
>  
>  
> >  4) We'll not help you by commiting patches to
> > your SVN or 
> > submiting to you diffs. 
>  
>  
>  You do realize that this will also mean that, as time goes by, it will
>  become harder and harder for you to merge in bugfixes from ReactOS into your
>  project, since the source bases will drift apart?
>  
>  Gé van Geldorp.

[Martin Fuchs]

Hi Rafal,

>   2/3) You want to do Windows clone, becouse the most
> poeple use it. So,
>  you want to do free Widnows. But we want to do completelly new OS, that
>  what I said it will be able to run Widnows apps and load windows
>  drivers. That's all. Of course we can cooperate if you want. You can get
>  our patches from HostiliX's SVN and we can get your patches from
>  ReactOS's SVN. 
When do you expect will you make your source code public, so we can
have a look at e.g. your taskmanager bugfixes? Your SVN repository is
currently empty.

>   Actually we're only looking for people who
> symphatetic our idea to make
>  completelly new OS (somethink like modified Windows). 
Sure, this is also something I am missing a bit in ReactOS: It's not
possible to implement much enhancements over MS Windows - there is
always this "100 % compatibility" sword of damocles. Extending the
WIN32 API is not possible without breaking the compatibility of ROS
applications, which should also be able to run on MS Windows.

>   On most forum boards where are Windows Customization
> sections you can
>  see Windows with Aqua style (they're changing Windows to look like MacOS
>  or Linux) 
The GUI style is just kind of fashion. For example after Longhorn gets
released, this trends will change again IMHO.

Regards,

   Martin

[Rafal Kupiec]

Yes, but explorer is only software. In oldest version of Windows there
was progman. You mustn't do explorer.

Martin Fuchs wrote:
>   Sure, this is also something I am missing a bit in
> ReactOS: It's not
>  possible to implement much enhancements over MS Windows - there is
>  always this "100 % compatibility" sword of damocles. Extending the
>  WIN32 API is not possible without breaking the compatibility of ROS
>  applications, which should also be able to run on MS Windows.

[Martin Fuchs]

2005/6/5, Rafal Kupiec <betacomp(a)gmail.com>om>:
>   Yes, but explorer is only software. In oldest version
> of Windows there
>  was progman. You mustn't do explorer. 
If you don't like explorer, you can always replace it by some other
shell like GeoShell, BlackBox or whatever...
But I hope you don't say Progman would be a better thing than explorer.  ;-)

[Rafal Kupiec]

Martin Fuchs wrote:
>   2005/6/5, Rafal Kupiec <betacomp(a)gmail.com>om>:
>  
> >  Yes, but explorer is only software. In oldest
> > version of Windows there
> > was progman. You mustn't do explorer. 
>  
>  
>  If you don't like explorer, you can always replace it by some other
>  shell like GeoShell, BlackBox or whatever...
>  But I hope you don't say Progman would be a better thing than explorer.  ;-) 
No, I don't.

[Casper Hornstrup]

>   -----Original Message-----
>  From: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.com [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Rafal
> Kupiec
>  Sent: 5. juni 2005 11:42
>  To: ros-dev(a)reactos.com
>  Subject: [ros-dev] Re: New OS built on ReactOS and WinuxOS technology!
>  
>  Maybe my posts sounds a bit aggressive, but I didn't want to write
>  aggressive posts. Maybe it's that, becouse English isn't my strong side?
>  I'm not attacking ReactOS. I only write about us project. Maybe is here
>  someone, who wants to help us make HostiliX really good OS?
>  
>  What we don't like in ReactOS? What disturb us?
>  1) New XML build system. I heared that it should be faster, but it
>  isn't. After compilation files have 2-3x more size. Standard makefiles
>  was better. 
On Windows, it's capable of building a bootable CD ~50% faster than the
old system was. Don't compare a DBG=0 with a DBG=1 build.

>   2) Making ReactOS Windows style. For eg. why do you
> implementing
>  explorer to ReactOS? It musn't be there. But, you can write your own
>  shell. It can looks like any existing shell (eg. Gnome, KDE, LiteStep).
>  Why just Windows? Is it the most beautifull Operating System? 
Windows has many good qualities.

>   3) Why all system is compressed to cabinet (CAB) file?
> Becouse Windows
>  uses this compresion. Why are you doing all like Microsoft? Is Bill
>  Gates paying you for cloning his OS? There's better, more beautifull and
>   with more capabilities shelles. And all of them are user-friendly!
>   
Because cabinet files have good access times when you need to pull out just
one file. And yes, Bill is sponsoring me. He even sends me gifts. Last
christmas I got a spacy looking USB mouse from him.

>   2/3) You want to do Windows clone, becouse the most
> poeple use it. So,
>  you want to do free Widnows. But we want to do completelly new OS, that
>  what I said it will be able to run Widnows apps and load windows
>  drivers. That's all. Of course we can cooperate if you want. You can get
>  our patches from HostiliX's SVN and we can get your patches from
>  ReactOS's SVN. 
ReactOS is not a clone of Windows. On www.reactos.com,
"ReactOS is an Open Source effort to develop a quality operating system that is
compatible with Microsoft Windows(R) applications
and drivers."
says it all.

>   
>  Actually we're only looking for people who symphatetic our idea to make
>  completelly new OS (somethink like modified Windows). On most forum
>  boards where are Windows Customization sections you can see Windows with
>  Aqua style (they're changing Windows to look like MacOS or Linux) 
It doesn't sound like it's a completely new OS. It sounds more like a fork
of ReactOS.


PS. Don't compare these:
http://www.reactos.com/en/content/view/full/177
http://savannah.gnu.org/task/?func=detailitem&item_id=3642

Casper

[Rafal Kupiec]

Casper Hornstrup wrote:
>   On Windows, it's capable of building a bootable CD
> ~50% faster than the
>  old system was. Don't compare a DBG=0 with a DBG=1 build.
>   
I was talking about compilation process and linked files size.

>   ReactOS is not a clone of Windows. On
> www.reactos.com,
>  "ReactOS is an Open Source effort to develop a quality operating system that is
> compatible with Microsoft Windows(R) applications
>  and drivers."
>  says it all.
>   
Maybe ReactOS isn't Windows clone, but you're making Windows clone, so
you're making explorer and other Windows stuff. Don't forget to do
Paint, Wordpad, progman, (...). You also made setup in Windows style.
Hopelessness!

[James Tabor]

Rafal Kupiec wrote:
>   
>  Maybe ReactOS isn't Windows clone, but you're making Windows clone, so
>  you're making explorer and other Windows stuff. Don't forget to do
>  Paint, Wordpad, progman, (...). You also made setup in Windows style.
>  Hopelessness!
>   
No!
If Ros was a clone, Ros would use windows or winnt as the main directory.
8^D
James

[Rafal Kupiec]

James Tabor wrote:
>   Rafal Kupiec wrote:
>  
> >  
> >  Maybe ReactOS isn't Windows clone, but you're making Windows clone, so
> >  you're making explorer and other Windows stuff. Don't forget to do
> >  Paint, Wordpad, progman, (...). You also made setup in Windows style.
> >  Hopelessness!
> >  
>  No!
>  If Ros was a clone, Ros would use windows or winnt as the main directory.
>  8^D
>  James 
It's only directory structure. But all other things are in Windows
style, what bear witness to ReactOS is Windows clone.

BTW Maybe Longhorn in final version will install in Longhorn, not
Windows or WinNT directory?

[Klemens Friedl]

Rafal Kupiec, I hope you and your HostiliX team will not make the same bad
move which another project called "Ekush OS" made some months ago.

Some links to this topic:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8830
http://blight.eu.org/reactos/ekush.html


I write this because your posts sounds a bit agressive and the your project
description is almost a 1:1 copy from the reactos.com page!!!


"At the end of 1997, the project had burnt out with nothing to show. Jason
Filby became project coordinator and called on everyone still subscribed to
the list to revive the project." -original from reactos.com

"At the end of 1999, the project had burnt out with nothing to show. Rafal
K. became project coordinator and called on everyone still subscribed to the
list to revive the project." -your description


You want to compare more? Here some more passages:

"It was decided that the target should be Windows NT and that there would be
an emphasis on results -- on written code rather than endless talk. The
project was renamed ReactOS, since the operating system's roots grew out of
a dissatisfaction with Microsoft's monopoly over the operating system
market. In February 1998, ReactOS began. " -original from reactos.com

"It was decided that the target should be Windows NT/2000 and that there
would be an emphasis on results - on written code rather than endless talk.
The project was renamed HostiliX, since the operating system's roots grew
out of a dissatisfaction with Microsoft's monopoly over the operating system
market. In January 2001 HostiliX began. " -your description

And many other same passages ...

Please compare yourself:
original article: http://www.reactos.com/en/content/view/full/177
your 1:1 copy: http://savannah.gnu.org/task/?func=detailitem&item_id=3642

shame on you.


> >  Rafal Kupiec
> > wrote:
> > WinuxOS wasn't nice copy of Windows 2000 with polish translation. It was
> > somethink like ReactOS today. It was written by polish coders, so it had
> > (only) polish translation. 
>  Hartmut Birr wrote:
>  I've compared scsiport.sys from WinuxOS (from sourceforge) and Windows
>  2000 with FileAlyzer. All sections except the .rsrc and .rdata section
>  have the same checksum. Your scsiport.sys is a copy from Windows 2000!
>  Look at the attached screen shots. 
And when I read the mail from Hartmut Birr it reminds me also to the "Ekush
OS" shit.


I really hope you do your best to show us that my suspicions are nothing
worth.

Okay, good luck with your project.

Klemens Friedl

-- 
Geschenkt: 3 Monate GMX ProMail gratis + 3 Ausgaben stern gratis
++ Jetzt anmelden & testen ++ http://www.gmx.net/de/go/promail ++

[Rafal Kupiec]

I hope so.
Thanks!

Klemens Friedl wrote:
>   Rafal Kupiec, I hope you and your HostiliX team will
> not make the same bad
>  move which another project called "Ekush OS" made some months ago.
>  
>  Some links to this topic:
>  http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=8830
>  http://blight.eu.org/reactos/ekush.html
>  
>  
>  I write this because your posts sounds a bit agressive and the your project
>  description is almost a 1:1 copy from the reactos.com page!!!
>  
>  
>  "At the end of 1997, the project had burnt out with nothing to show. Jason
>  Filby became project coordinator and called on everyone still subscribed to
>  the list to revive the project." -original from reactos.com
>  
>  "At the end of 1999, the project had burnt out with nothing to show. Rafal
>  K. became project coordinator and called on everyone still subscribed to the
>  list to revive the project." -your description
>  
>  
>  You want to compare more? Here some more passages:
>  
>  "It was decided that the target should be Windows NT and that there would be
>  an emphasis on results -- on written code rather than endless talk. The
>  project was renamed ReactOS, since the operating system's roots grew out of
>  a dissatisfaction with Microsoft's monopoly over the operating system
>  market. In February 1998, ReactOS began. " -original from reactos.com
>  
>  "It was decided that the target should be Windows NT/2000 and that there
>  would be an emphasis on results - on written code rather than endless talk.
>  The project was renamed HostiliX, since the operating system's roots grew
>  out of a dissatisfaction with Microsoft's monopoly over the operating system
>  market. In January 2001 HostiliX began. " -your description
>  
>  And many other same passages ...
>  
>  Please compare yourself:
>  original article: http://www.reactos.com/en/content/view/full/177
>  your 1:1 copy: http://savannah.gnu.org/task/?func=detailitem&item_id=3642
>  
>  shame on you.
>  
>  
>  
> > >  Rafal
> > > Kupiec wrote:
> > > WinuxOS wasn't nice copy of Windows 2000 with polish translation. It was
> > > somethink like ReactOS today. It was written by polish coders, so it had
> > > (only) polish translation. 
> > Hartmut Birr wrote:
> > I've compared scsiport.sys from WinuxOS (from sourceforge) and Windows
> > 2000 with FileAlyzer. All sections except the .rsrc and .rdata section
> > have the same checksum. Your scsiport.sys is a copy from Windows 2000!
> > Look at the attached screen shots. 
>  
>  
>  And when I read the mail from Hartmut Birr it reminds me also to the "Ekush
>  OS" shit.
>  
>  
>  I really hope you do your best to show us that my suspicions are nothing
>  worth.
>  
>  Okay, good luck with your project.
>  
>  Klemens Friedl
>

[Alex Ionescu]

Rafal Kupiec wrote:

>  I hope so.
> Thanks!
>   
>  
Rafal,

I am checking out your kernel code (because what's what I work in) and I 
noticed you've removed all notices of my copyright on those files. I 
cannot speak for other developers, but for myself, I am disgusted and 
pissed. I retain all copyright on the code that I've written (which 
means about 40% of your kernel) and I demand for my name and contact 
information to be re-added to your sources. What you are doing is 
illegal under copyright law. You cannot take a book, rip out the 
copyright notice and write "WRITTEN BY RAFAL KUPIEC".
I am willing to assume that you've made an honest mistake. I'm hoping 
that you will change the files which contain my copyright on them to 
reflect this. I assume other developers would want the same, but I 
cannot legally speak up for them.

Best regards,
Alex Ionescu

[TwoTailedFox]

I'm seeing parallels between the ReactOS/HostilliX Spat (And indeed,
the ReactOS/EkushOS Spat), and the PearPC/CherryOS Spat.

In reply to Rafal, ROS is not a 'Clone' of Windows. A Clone is,
essentually, a 1:1 copy of something. If you build something from
scratch, and program it to accept program instructions from a Specific
Architecture, that is not 'cloning'.

As long as the GPL is obeyed, there shouldn't be a problem... we hope.

On 6/5/05, Alex Ionescu <ionucu(a)videotron.ca> wrote:
>   Rafal Kupiec wrote:
>  
> >  I hope so.
> > Thanks!
> >
> >  
>  Rafal,
>  
>  I am checking out your kernel code (because what's what I work in) and I
>  noticed you've removed all notices of my copyright on those files. I
>  cannot speak for other developers, but for myself, I am disgusted and
>  pissed. I retain all copyright on the code that I've written (which
>  means about 40% of your kernel) and I demand for my name and contact
>  information to be re-added to your sources. What you are doing is
>  illegal under copyright law. You cannot take a book, rip out the
>  copyright notice and write "WRITTEN BY RAFAL KUPIEC".
>  I am willing to assume that you've made an honest mistake. I'm hoping
>  that you will change the files which contain my copyright on them to
>  reflect this. I assume other developers would want the same, but I
>  cannot legally speak up for them.
>  
>  Best regards,
>  Alex Ionescu
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.com
>  http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>   

-- 
"I had a handle on life, but then it broke"

[Rafal Kupiec]

I understand you. I'll read GPL License well and if I break it, i'll
repair all sources and copyrights. Today you're in ReactOS Team and I
wrte Based on ReactOS Technology, so it's legal for me, but for
reliability i'll check it.

If I broke GPL license, i'm sorry. I'll repair it.

Yours faithfully,
Rafal Kupiec

Alex Ionescu wrote:
>   Rafal Kupiec wrote:
>  
> >   I hope so.
> >  Thanks!
> >   
> >  
>  Rafal,
>  
>  I am checking out your kernel code (because what's what I work in) and I
>  noticed you've removed all notices of my copyright on those files. I
>  cannot speak for other developers, but for myself, I am disgusted and
>  pissed. I retain all copyright on the code that I've written (which
>  means about 40% of your kernel) and I demand for my name and contact
>  information to be re-added to your sources. What you are doing is
>  illegal under copyright law. You cannot take a book, rip out the
>  copyright notice and write "WRITTEN BY RAFAL KUPIEC".
>  I am willing to assume that you've made an honest mistake. I'm hoping
>  that you will change the files which contain my copyright on them to
>  reflect this. I assume other developers would want the same, but I
>  cannot legally speak up for them.
>  
>  Best regards,
>  Alex Ionescu

[Rafal Kupiec]

My English is bad, so if I don't have a reason, please correct me:
I readed in GPL:


"2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of
it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute
such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 above, provided
that you also meet all of these conditions:

    * a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices
stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

    * b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part
thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties
under the terms of this License.

    * c) If the modified program normally reads commands interactively
when run, you must cause it, when started running for such interactive
use in the most ordinary way, to print or display an announcement
including an appropriate copyright notice and a notice that there is no
warranty (or else, saying that you provide a warranty) and that users
may redistribute the program under these conditions, and telling the
user how to view a copy of this License. (Exception: if the Program
itself is interactive but does not normally print such an announcement,
your work based on the Program is not required to print an announcement.)"


As I readed: "(...) You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or
any portion of it, thus forming a work based on the Program (...)"

1) I may modify ReactOS Sources, what I did.
2) I must inform, that I modified ReactOS Sources, so I wrote as: "Based
on ReactOS Technology". In GPL isn't any fragment that means that I must
write all authors of this file.

If i don't have reason, please correct me and quote me any fragment of
GPL, that constains this reason.


Yours faithfully,
Rafal Kupiec


Alex Ionescu wrote:
>   Rafal Kupiec wrote:
>  
> >   I hope so.
> >  Thanks!
> >   
> >  
>  Rafal,
>  
>  I am checking out your kernel code (because what's what I work in) and I
>  noticed you've removed all notices of my copyright on those files. I
>  cannot speak for other developers, but for myself, I am disgusted and
>  pissed. I retain all copyright on the code that I've written (which
>  means about 40% of your kernel) and I demand for my name and contact
>  information to be re-added to your sources. What you are doing is
>  illegal under copyright law. You cannot take a book, rip out the
>  copyright notice and write "WRITTEN BY RAFAL KUPIEC".
>  I am willing to assume that you've made an honest mistake. I'm hoping
>  that you will change the files which contain my copyright on them to
>  reflect this. I assume other developers would want the same, but I
>  cannot legally speak up for them.
>  
>  Best regards,
>  Alex Ionescu

[Oliver Schneider]

Czesc Rafal,

I am no ROS developer (but a developer), but reading the list and your
dispute for a while.

Besides being highly immoral to remove the copyright of the original author
without any license given, the GPL clearly states that you must not remove
the copyright information in your derived work.

For more informations you may read the FAQ:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

!!!!!
In the FAQ the following point is relevant in your case:
"The GPL requires all copies to carry an appropriate copyright notice."
!!!!!

Furthermore you can read the GPL in Polish (although not legally binding in
this form) by asking Google for "GPL po polsku". To make it easier for you,
here's a direct link:
http://gnu.org.pl/text/licencja-gnu.html

Best regards,

Oliver


>   --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
>  Von: Rafal Kupiec <betacomp(a)gmail.com>
>  An: ros-dev(a)reactos.com
>  Betreff: [ros-dev] Re: New OS built on ReactOS and WinuxOS technology!
>  Datum: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 15:11:09 +0200
>  
>  My English is bad, so if I don't have a reason, please correct me:
>  I readed in GPL:
>  
>  
>  "2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of
>  it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute
>  such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 above, provided
>  that you also meet all of these conditions:
>  
>      * a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices
>  stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.
>  
>      * b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
>  whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part
>  thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties
>  under the terms of this License.
>  
>      * c) If the modified program normally reads commands interactively
>  when run, you must cause it, when started running for such interactive
>  use in the most ordinary way, to print or display an announcement
>  including an appropriate copyright notice and a notice that there is no
>  warranty (or else, saying that you provide a warranty) and that users
>  may redistribute the program under these conditions, and telling the
>  user how to view a copy of this License. (Exception: if the Program
>  itself is interactive but does not normally print such an announcement,
>  your work based on the Program is not required to print an announcement.)"
>  
>  
>  As I readed: "(...) You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or
>  any portion of it, thus forming a work based on the Program (...)"
>  
>  1) I may modify ReactOS Sources, what I did.
>  2) I must inform, that I modified ReactOS Sources, so I wrote as: "Based
>  on ReactOS Technology". In GPL isn't any fragment that means that I must
>  write all authors of this file.
>  
>  If i don't have reason, please correct me and quote me any fragment of
>  GPL, that constains this reason.
>  
>  
>  Yours faithfully,
>  Rafal Kupiec
>  
>  
>  Alex Ionescu wrote:
> >   Rafal Kupiec wrote:
> >  
> > >   I hope so.
> > >  Thanks!
> > >   
> > >  
> >  Rafal,
> >  
> >  I am checking out your kernel code (because what's what I work in) and I
> >  noticed you've removed all notices of my copyright on those files. I
> >  cannot speak for other developers, but for myself, I am disgusted and
> >  pissed. I retain all copyright on the code that I've written (which
> >  means about 40% of your kernel) and I demand for my name and contact
> >  information to be re-added to your sources. What you are doing is
> >  illegal under copyright law. You cannot take a book, rip out the
> >  copyright notice and write "WRITTEN BY RAFAL KUPIEC".
> >  I am willing to assume that you've made an honest mistake. I'm hoping
> >  that you will change the files which contain my copyright on them to
> >  reflect this. I assume other developers would want the same, but I
> >  cannot legally speak up for them.
> >  
> >  Best regards,
> >  Alex Ionescu 
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.com
>  http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>   
-- 
---------------------------------------------------
May the source be with you, stranger ;)

ICQ: #281645
URL: http://assarbad.net

[Casper Hornstrup]

>   -----Original Message-----
>  From: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.com [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of
> Oliver
>  Schneider
>  Sent: 6. juni 2005 15:32
>  To: ReactOS Development List
>  Cc: Rafal Kupiec
>  Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Re: New OS built on ReactOS and WinuxOS technology!
>  
>  For more informations you may read the FAQ:
>  http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html
>  
>  !!!!!
>  In the FAQ the following point is relevant in your case:
>  "The GPL requires all copies to carry an appropriate copyright notice."
>  !!!!! 
Then we should go through every file in svn and add an appropriate copyright
notice. Many files containing original code don't have an appropriate copyright
notice. We should also require this for all future changes.

Casper

[Oliver Schneider]

>   Then we should go through every file in svn and add an
> appropriate
>  copyright notice. Many files containing original code don't have an
>  appropriate copyright notice. We should also require this for all future
>  changes. 
Indeed. I can only tell how we do it in certain JEDI projects. 

1. The name of the current module (title)
2. Any copyrights (all authors, whether active or not, being mentioned)
3. Project information. For ROS it would be something like
   Obtained through ReactOS project. You may find the latest version of
   this module at http://reactos. ...
4. License terms (with reference to the GPL which is anyway included as a
   text file). If multiple licenses, then for each one such clause.

This works quite well and gives all files a standard look. Every author
decides himself whether a change was worth the mentioning in the header
(e.g. usually changing the case of a variable won't qualify for a copyright
notice - just common sense ;-).

Oliver

PS: Nevertheless it sounded in Alex' mail that he *had* his copyright
properly included. Which on the other hand means that removal of it *was
already an illegal act* itself. This is not touched in any way by the
missing copyright notices you mentioned, Casper.

-- 
---------------------------------------------------
May the source be with you, stranger ;)

ICQ: #281645
URL: http://assarbad.net

[Alex Ionescu]

Rafal Kupiec wrote:

>  
> 1) I may modify ReactOS Sources, what I did.
> 2) I must inform, that I modified ReactOS Sources, so I wrote as: "Based
> on ReactOS Technology". In GPL isn't any fragment that means that I must
> write all authors of this file.
>
>   
>  
First of all, "ReactOS Technology" is not a legal person that can 
reprsent copyright. A copyright is registered to a legal entitiy (such 
as a person, or company). You can't register a copyright to a 
"technology". So at the very least you should say "Based on work done by 
the ReactOS Foundation, (c) 2000-2005". Even if that were the case, I 
have not I have not submitted my work under the ReactOS Foundation, so I 
retain copyright. In that case you are misrepresenting the valid 
copyright owner...

Best regards,
Alex Ionescu

[Michael B. Trausch]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Alex Ionescu wrote:
>   Rafal Kupiec wrote:
>  
> >  
> >  1) I may modify ReactOS Sources, what I did.
> >  2) I must inform, that I modified ReactOS Sources, so I wrote as: "Based
> >  on ReactOS Technology". In GPL isn't any fragment that means that I must
> >  write all authors of this file.
> >  
>  First of all, "ReactOS Technology" is not a legal person that can
>  reprsent copyright. A copyright is registered to a legal entitiy (such
>  as a person, or company). You can't register a copyright to a
>  "technology". So at the very least you should say "Based on work done by
>  the ReactOS Foundation, (c) 2000-2005". Even if that were the case, I
>  have not I have not submitted my work under the ReactOS Foundation, so I
>  retain copyright. In that case you are misrepresenting the valid
>  copyright owner...
>   
If the license is GPL, and the statement that it is based on ReactOS
technology is made, what is the issue?  The statement used doesn't imply
that "ReactOS Technology" is an entity that can represent Copyright, it
implies that it's based (derived from) ReactOS technology, which is
licensed under the GPL and thus open for modification without
restriction (save the restrictions present in the GPL).

The GPL requires any Copyrights that are in place to remain there.  The
changed version must reflect the original.  For example, if "Help -->
About" shows "ReactOS, Copyright (C) 2001-2005 The ReactOS Foundation,
Portions Copyright Alex Ionescu" or something similar, or a list, then
fine.  A new release by someone else may change the "ReactOS Foundation"
part, but must still site it as a potential Copyright holder.  However,
the new party that has rebundled it, owns the Copyright on the
distribution so long as it contains different things.

(Another aside:  The Foundation can, at its discretion, create an
official "layout" for the installer CD and then Copyright that layout,
such that nobody else can use it.  While it's possible, it can
effectively "cramp" the software and innovation surrounding it, and it's
not advisable.  Others then must choose different "layouts" for their
installers of their derived works, and this would require heavy
modifications to installers and the like to find files in new locations.)

A little bit about Copyright Law, now.  A developer holds copyright to
the portions of the code that (s)he contributed to the project, and that
is all.  The group that is responsible for putting it together, then
owns the copyright on the layout, and so forth.  So, if releases are the
Foundation's job, then whether they claim their Copyright or not, it is,
in fact, their Copyright.  If someone other then the Foundation packages
it for the ReactOS web site, then *THEY* hold the Copyright, and they
can therefore claim that they are "the" Copyright holder for the
Official Distribution of the ReactOS project.

That does not exclude the developers to their Copyright, rather, it adds
to it.

And finally, please note the following section in the GPL:

"2.  You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of
it, thus forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute
such modifications or work under the terms of Section 1 above, provided
that you also meet all of these conditions:

"    a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices
stating that you changed the files and the date of any change.

"    b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in
whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part
thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties
under the terms of this License.

"    c) If the modified program normally reads commands interactively
when run, you must cause it, when started running for such interactive
use in the most ordinary way, to print or display an announcement
including an appropriate copyright notice and a notice that there is no
warranty (or else, saying that you provide a warranty) and that users
may redistribute the program under these conditions, and telling the
user how to view a copy of this License. (Exception: if the Program
itself is interactive but does not normally print such an announcement,
your work based on the Program is not required to print an announcement.)"

According to this, if the program prints notices, these notices must be
updated to reflect the state of the program.  If the program does not
print such notices, the modifying party is not required to change them,
because they do not exist.

If there is something here that's a violation, then enforce it.
However, from what I can tell just waking up and seeing this in my
e-mail box, the author in question did even more then they had to do to
be compliant.

	- Mike

- --
Michael B. Trausch                                     fd0man(a)gmail.com
Web: http://fd0man.theunixplace.com/        Jabber: mtrausch(a)jabber.com
Phone: [phone]                  FAX (US Only): 1-866-806-4647
=======================================================================
  Do you have PGP or GPG?  Key at pgp.mit.edu, Please Encrypt E-Mail!

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFCqDQIPXInbkqM7nwRA5MVAJ9thkGyT7+zpuW6Uz/GA366j0DfMwCfSwwF
> ophAle3/HpDxNsyA9RVamzE=
> =0NMC
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Ge van Geldorp]

>   From: Michael B. Trausch
>  
>  If the license is GPL, and the statement that it is based on 
>  ReactOS technology is made, what is the issue? 
<cut>

>   The GPL requires any Copyrights that are in place to
> remain 
>  there. 
That's the issue. Copyright notices were removed from source files. It seems
to be a big misunderstanding and the Hostilix guys have said they will put
back those copyright notices.

Gé van Geldorp.

[Michael B. Trausch]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Ge van Geldorp wrote:
>   
>  That's the issue. Copyright notices were removed from source files. It seems
>  to be a big misunderstanding and the Hostilix guys have said they will put
>  back those copyright notices.
>  
>  Gé van Geldorp.
>   
Ahh, that I was not aware of.  I'd only seen the thing stating that
"based on ReactOS Technology" is a means of misrepresenting the
copyright on a distribution of React- which it isn't.

Shows that perhaps my eyes should be more open in the mornings... lol.

	- Mike

- --
Michael B. Trausch                                     fd0man(a)gmail.com
Web: http://fd0man.theunixplace.com/        Jabber: mtrausch(a)jabber.com
Phone: [phone]                  FAX (US Only): 1-866-806-4647
=======================================================================
  Do you have PGP or GPG?  Key at pgp.mit.edu, Please Encrypt E-Mail!

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFCqD2SPXInbkqM7nwRA05yAJ9QLHLUarl/ml7PtsxE2ciL1fSb9gCdFT1o
> lp13DR554tMLPvxSkTEzB/Q=
> =nUlx
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Rafal Kupiec]

Ge van Geldorp wrote:
> >  From: Michael
> > B. Trausch
> >
> > If the license is GPL, and the statement that it is based on 
> > ReactOS technology is made, what is the issue? 
>  
>  
>  <cut>
>  
> >  The GPL requires any Copyrights that are in place
> > to remain 
> > there. 
>  
>  
>  That's the issue. Copyright notices were removed from source files. It seems
>  to be a big misunderstanding and the Hostilix guys have said they will put
>  back those copyright notices.
>  
>  Gé van Geldorp. 

Yes, I said that and i'll do that.
As you see, I removed all sources from SVN.

[Michael Biggins]

Perhaps you should come visit us in the reactos IRC channel...

irc.freenode.net
#reactos

And have a chat with the people that created the work your project is based
on.

-----Original Message-----
From: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.com [mailto:[e-mail]]On
Behalf Of Rafal Kupiec
Sent: 05 June 2005 12:50
To: ros-dev(a)reactos.com
Subject: [ros-dev] Re: New OS built on ReactOS and WinuxOS technology!


Casper Hornstrup wrote:
>   On Windows, it's capable of building a bootable CD
> ~50% faster than the
>  old system was. Don't compare a DBG=0 with a DBG=1 build.
>  
I was talking about compilation process and linked files size.

>   ReactOS is not a clone of Windows. On
> www.reactos.com,
>  "ReactOS is an Open Source effort to develop a quality operating system 
that
is compatible with Microsoft Windows(R) applications
>   and drivers."
>  says it all.
>  
Maybe ReactOS isn't Windows clone, but you're making Windows clone, so
you're making explorer and other Windows stuff. Don't forget to do
Paint, Wordpad, progman, (...). You also made setup in Windows style.
Hopelessness!

_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
Ros-dev(a)reactos.com
http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Maarten Bosma]

Rafal Kupiec wrote:
>   What we don't like in ReactOS? What disturb us?
>  1) New XML build system. I heared that it should be faster, but it
>  isn't. After compilation files have 2-3x more size. Standard makefiles
>  was better. 
You can set DBG=0 in cofig.xml and every thing will be as before.

>   2/3) You want to do Windows clone, becouse the most
> poeple use it. So,
>  you want to do free Widnows. But we want to do completelly new OS, that
>  what I said it will be able to run Widnows apps and load windows
>  drivers. That's all. Of course we can cooperate if you want. You can get
>  our patches from HostiliX's SVN and we can get your patches from
>  ReactOS's SVN. 
What you want to do sound to me like a ReactOs distro. (with fixed 
taskmgr, another shell, 7zip insteed of cab.) But there is no real 
difference.

The only thing is that have your own driver format, but could you tell 
me what is the improvement here ?


Maarten Bosma

PS: Did you try our current task manager under windows ? It really works 
perfectly.

[Rafal Kupiec]

We're wandering from topic. I only wanted to inform poeople about new
Operating System based on ReactOS and you attacked me why can't we
develop ReactOS. I think at this time it's end of topic, just for me.
What I said you can use our sources and we'll use your sources. It's in
my opinion some help for ReactOS and HostiliX too.


Maarten Bosma wrote:
>   Rafal Kupiec wrote:
>  
> >   What we don't like in ReactOS? What disturb
> > us?
> >  1) New XML build system. I heared that it should be faster, but it
> >  isn't. After compilation files have 2-3x more size. Standard makefiles
> >  was better. 
>  
>  You can set DBG=0 in cofig.xml and every thing will be as before.
>  
> >   2/3) You want to do Windows clone, becouse the
> > most poeple use it. So,
> >  you want to do free Widnows. But we want to do completelly new OS, that
> >  what I said it will be able to run Widnows apps and load windows
> >  drivers. That's all. Of course we can cooperate if you want. You can get
> >  our patches from HostiliX's SVN and we can get your patches from
> >  ReactOS's SVN. 
>  
>  
>  What you want to do sound to me like a ReactOs distro. (with fixed
>  taskmgr, another shell, 7zip insteed of cab.) But there is no real
>  difference.
>  
>  The only thing is that have your own driver format, but could you tell
>  me what is the improvement here ?
>  
>  
>  Maarten Bosma
>  
>  PS: Did you try our current task manager under windows ? It really works
>  perfectly.

[Michael Biggins]

Perhaps you should come visit us in the reactos IRC channel...

irc.freenode.net
#reactos

And have a chat with the people that created the work your project is based
on.

-----Original Message-----
From: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.com [mailto:[e-mail]]On
Behalf Of Rafal Kupiec
Sent: 05 June 2005 10:42
To: ros-dev(a)reactos.com
Subject: [ros-dev] Re: New OS built on ReactOS and WinuxOS technology!


Maybe my posts sounds a bit aggressive, but I didn't want to write
aggressive posts. Maybe it's that, becouse English isn't my strong side?
I'm not attacking ReactOS. I only write about us project. Maybe is here
someone, who wants to help us make HostiliX really good OS?

I know that maybe sounds funny: We're making OS based on ReactOS and
don't want to help make ReactOS better. But we don't like Windows. We
don't want to do all Windows applications. We want to do completelly new
OS, that will be albe to run Windows applications and use Windows
drivers. None more. We want to do stable, fast operating system. It will
have its own API (subsystem) and for example Posix subsystem. HostiliX
have only Windows base software. It'll not looks like Windows. It's only
architecture and directory structure.

What we don't like in ReactOS? What disturb us?
1) New XML build system. I heared that it should be faster, but it
isn't. After compilation files have 2-3x more size. Standard makefiles
was better.
2) Making ReactOS Windows style. For eg. why do you implementing
explorer to ReactOS? It musn't be there. But, you can write your own
shell. It can looks like any existing shell (eg. Gnome, KDE, LiteStep).
Why just Windows? Is it the most beautifull Operating System?
3) Why all system is compressed to cabinet (CAB) file? Becouse Windows
uses this compresion. Why are you doing all like Microsoft? Is Bill
Gates paying you for cloning his OS? There's better, more beautifull and
 with more capabilities shelles. And all of them are user-friendly!

2/3) You want to do Windows clone, becouse the most poeple use it. So,
you want to do free Widnows. But we want to do completelly new OS, that
what I said it will be able to run Widnows apps and load windows
drivers. That's all. Of course we can cooperate if you want. You can get
our patches from HostiliX's SVN and we can get your patches from
ReactOS's SVN.

Actually we're only looking for people who symphatetic our idea to make
completelly new OS (somethink like modified Windows). On most forum
boards where are Windows Customization sections you can see Windows with
Aqua style (they're changing Windows to look like MacOS or Linux)



Ge van Geldorp wrote:
>   Maybe it's a cultural difference, maybe it's
> because we're both not native
>  English speakers, maybe I'm just too sensitive, but.... I think your posts
>  sound a bit aggressive. I'm wondering why? What did ReactOS do to deserve
>  that tone/attitude?
>
>
> >  4) We'll not help you by commiting patches to
> > your SVN or
> > submiting to you diffs. 
>
>  You do realize that this will also mean that, as time goes by, it will
>  become harder and harder for you to merge in bugfixes from ReactOS into 
your
>   project, since the source bases will drift apart?
>
>  Gé van Geldorp. 
_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
Ros-dev(a)reactos.com
http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Robert Köpferl]

Rafal Kupiec wrote:
>   Maybe my posts sounds a bit aggressive, but I
> didn't want to write
>  aggressive posts. Maybe it's that, becouse English isn't my strong side?
>  I'm not attacking ReactOS. I only write about us project. Maybe is here
>  someone, who wants to help us make HostiliX really good OS?
>   
I do unterstand your intend. For my taste there's too much cloning. At 
least on UI where it can be avoided. I also think that MS did it one way 
and there are tens of other ways to do it better.
On API side, there is for now no way of doing our own.

BUT. Thinking similar to you, this is not the right time, yet. ReactOS 
has still a long way to grow until it really makes sense to split up a 
project. Think of this: Removing Explorer 20k dlls and other apps is 
just one click away. But making the core-DLLs, subsystems and kernel run 
well and compatible - that's still a lot of work.

[Brandon Turner]

I just want to point out the fact that the taskmgr is not buggy.  If you 
take the tashmgr from ROS and run it on windows it looks perfect and 
works perfect!  So, there is no bug with taskmgr it is with the api's 
and other parts of the subsystem which is what the dev said they were 
working on.

Brandon

Rafal Kupiec wrote:

>  We're going to follow Windows arch, becouse Windows
> isn't really bad OS,
> It only often hangs up. Making HostiliX we want to do new OS that will
> be able to run Windows Applications and drivers. Why? There's a lot of
> great programs and I think the most drivers for this OS (eg. there's no
> drovers for Canon i560 pronter for Linux). All hardware manufacturers do
> drivers for Windows, so we want to HostiliX be able to support them.
>
> Why we don't help ReactOS to make it better?
> We hate your policy. You want to do Windows NT clone, so must you do
> for. example explorer? Cannot you do any other application? A few days
> ago I asked on ReactOS forum why your Task Manager looks buggy? e7
> answered me: "Because ReactOS is still a alpha version (0.3svn), and the
> developers have other things todo (extend API, let applications and
> drivers work...)" It's your policy, that I don't understand. Why are you
> doing new think incompletelly? You want to do all at the same time! But
> we want to do less than you but better. We'll not help you, becouse we
> don't want to repair your bugs(eg. taskmgr). Why taskmgr is buggy?
> Becouse someone who developed it stoped working on it and I think start
> working on somethink else. I personally don't do all system ingredients.
> I do only one thing.
>
>
> Ge van Geldorp wrote:
>   
>
> > >  From:
> > > Rafal Kupiec
> > >
> > > I don't understand yours policy. Maybe HostiliX is compatible 
> > > with Windows and based on ReactOS, but we don't want to do 
> > > Windows NT clone, that ReactOS is. HostiliX will only support 
> > > for Windows apps and drivers. It will also have its' own subsystem.
> > >       
> > >  
> > Ok, you don't want to clone MS Windows, but it's totally unclear to me
> > what
> > you do want to do then. Doesn't supporting Windows apps and drivers kind of
> > imply that you're going to follow the Windows architecture? What features
> > will HostiliX have besides the support for Windows apps and drivers?
> >
> > Writing your own subsystem is something you could do inside the ReactOS
> > project.
> >
> > Gé van Geldorp.
> >     
> >  
> _______________________________________________
> Ros-dev mailing list
> Ros-dev(a)reactos.com
> http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>
>   
>

[Martin Fuchs]

2005/6/4, Brandon Turner <turnerb7(a)msu.edu>du>:
>   I just want to point out the fact that the taskmgr is
> not buggy.  If you
>  take the tashmgr from ROS and run it on windows it looks perfect and
>  works perfect!  So, there is no bug with taskmgr it is with the api's
>  and other parts of the subsystem which is what the dev said they were
>  working on. 
To be fair: Taskmanager is currently not bug free and not yet finished.
I just did a quick look at it and found a hand full of problems: (and
think this are not all still existing)

- On the "Performance" register page there are visible some ugly
window frames in the lower part of the window, that should not be
there.
- When resizing task manager, the performance graphs are not adjusted.
- There is missing the sort functionality in the "Processes" register page.
- It crashed on MS Windows after launching some another program. (not
yet reproducable)

Regards,

    Martin

[Rafal Kupiec]

Very interesting.
Why ReactOS Developers didn't know this bugs and developers come to
blows that they have reason? :P It's cause why don't we want to develop
ReactOS.


Martin Fuchs wrote:
>   2005/6/4, Brandon Turner <turnerb7(a)msu.edu>du>:
>  
> >  I just want to point out the fact that the taskmgr
> > is not buggy.  If you
> > take the tashmgr from ROS and run it on windows it looks perfect and
> > works perfect!  So, there is no bug with taskmgr it is with the api's
> > and other parts of the subsystem which is what the dev said they were
> > working on. 
>  
>  
>  To be fair: Taskmanager is currently not bug free and not yet finished.
>  I just did a quick look at it and found a hand full of problems: (and
>  think this are not all still existing)
>  
>  - On the "Performance" register page there are visible some ugly
>  window frames in the lower part of the window, that should not be
>  there.
>  - When resizing task manager, the performance graphs are not adjusted.
>  - There is missing the sort functionality in the "Processes" register page.
>  - It crashed on MS Windows after launching some another program. (not
>  yet reproducable)
>  
>  Regards,
>  
>      Martin

[Hartmut Birr]

Rafal Kupiec wrote:

>  Hi...
> I'm from BetaComp Team and I with all team members are making new
> operating system that will be compatible with Windows NT. It will also
> have Posix and its own sybsystems. It's based on knowed for most people
> project named ReactOS and our previously project named WinuxOS. 
>  
Was WinuxOS the nice copy of W2k with polish translation?

- Hartmut

[Rafal Kupiec]

WinuxOS wasn't nice copy of Windows 2000 with polish translation. It was
somethink like ReactOS today. It was written by polish coders, so it had
(only) polish translation.


Hartmut Birr wrote:
>   Rafal Kupiec wrote:
>  
>  
> >  Hi...
> > I'm from BetaComp Team and I with all team members are making new
> > operating system that will be compatible with Windows NT. It will also
> > have Posix and its own sybsystems. It's based on knowed for most people
> > project named ReactOS and our previously project named WinuxOS. 
> >  
>  
>  Was WinuxOS the nice copy of W2k with polish translation?
>  
>  - Hartmut

[Hartmut Birr]

Rafal Kupiec wrote:

>  WinuxOS wasn't nice copy of Windows 2000 with
> polish translation. It was
> somethink like ReactOS today. It was written by polish coders, so it had
> (only) polish translation.
>   
>  
Hi,

I've compared scsiport.sys from WinuxOS (from sourceforge) and Windows
2000 with FileAlyzer. All sections except the .rsrc and .rdata section
have the same checksum. Your scsiport.sys is a copy from Windows 2000!
Look at the attached screen shots.

- Hartmut

[Hartmut Birr]

Hi,

no comment from Rafal Kupiec to my mail, but now the files are removed
from sourceforge.

- Hartmut


> >  WinuxOS
> > wasn't nice copy of Windows 2000 with polish translation. It was
> > somethink like ReactOS today. It was written by polish coders, so it had
> > (only) polish translation.
> >     
> >  
> Hi,
>
> I've compared scsiport.sys from WinuxOS (from sourceforge) and Windows
> 2000 with FileAlyzer. All sections except the .rsrc and .rdata section
> have the same checksum. Your scsiport.sys is a copy from Windows 2000!
> Look at the attached screen shots.
>
> - Hartmut
>   
>