Grievance: Cease and Desist Request: Standard Resolution Procedure:
1) The Project Coordinator Should attempt to make decisions according to the consensus of the Project Members. Mr. Bragin is making procedural changes with out the full consensus of all Project Members.
2) The Repository Coordinator Should make decisions which are fair and reasonable, and preferably consistent with the consensus of the Project Members. Due to the unfilled Repository Coordinator position, Mr. Bragin has assumed full control of that position and making decisions with out the full consensus of all Project Members.
3) General rules: a) Violation of first rule: Project Coordinator issued change orders, Project Members began working on the changes. These changes are against the general consensus among the Project Members. Reference: http://www.reactos.org/archives/public/ros-dev/2008-June/010394.html
b) Violation of second rule: Project Coordinator banned Project Member with out the ability to rejoin the Project at any time.
c) Violation of third rule: Project Coordinator assumed full control of Repository Coordinator position and used that position to remove access to a Project Member.
Adhering to: Standard Resolution Procedure: The procedure: The procedure begins when a draft General Resolution is announced on a public Project mailing list. Which no other rule can apply, I hereby request a Cease and Desist until this Grievance is heard by all Project Members. Project Members have a contractual agreement and must abide by it.
PS: This is a very serious mater and not at all a joke. If this project has any merit, it needs to resolve these issues in the open.
On Jun 24, 2008, at 2:21 AM, James Tabor wrote:
- The Project Coordinator Should attempt to make decisions according
to the consensus of the Project Members. Mr. Bragin is making procedural changes with out the full consensus of all Project Members.
When a so-called "audit" problem happened, it was almost the same (personal problems between developers, namely Hartmut Birr, Ge van Geldorp, Casper Hornstrup and Alex Ionescu, which resulted in mutual charges of various bad and made up things, and gladly picked up by some people related to Wine team to suppress ReactOS project development).
And yes, James, there was a democracy back then, and all decisions were made according to the consensus of Project Members. But do you remember what this led to? And where would it go if Mr. Geldorp would not help (even though he wasn't "at my side"!) and Mr. Bragin would not back up the repository and open it up for further development?
As for Repository Coordinator, why made up positions where there is no need? Coordinate what? And yes, I not only assumed, but took full control, in order to prevent situations like "audit fiasco" in future.
If you see how much outburst and disclosing private information (vulnerable to at least one person!) Magnus Olsen did, it, unfortunately!, proofs he's mentally unstable, and can not take part in this project. He's welcome to send in patches though, I won't mind reviewing them, since legally his work could go into ReactOS repository.
If there are further questions, don't hesitate to continue discussion. I want to clear this up once and for good. One thing which I ensure you, there will be no committers who work against the project and open source.
With the best regards, Aleksey Bragin.
Hello,
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 5:05 AM, Aleksey Bragin aleksey@reactos.org wrote:
On Jun 24, 2008, at 2:21 AM, James Tabor wrote:
- The Project Coordinator Should attempt to make decisions according
to the consensus of the Project Members. Mr. Bragin is making procedural changes with out the full consensus of all Project Members.
When a so-called "audit" problem happened, it was almost the same (personal problems between developers, namely Hartmut Birr, Ge van Geldorp, Casper Hornstrup and Alex Ionescu, which resulted in mutual charges of various bad and made up things, and gladly picked up by some people related to Wine team to suppress ReactOS project development).
And yes, James, there was a democracy back then, and all decisions were made according to the consensus of Project Members. But do you remember what this led to? And where would it go if Mr. Geldorp would not help (even though he wasn't "at my side"!) and Mr. Bragin would not back up the repository and open it up for further development?
As for Repository Coordinator, why made up positions where there is no need? Coordinate what? And yes, I not only assumed, but took full control, in order to prevent situations like "audit fiasco" in future.
Used in the beginning to control us and manipulate the project. I guess based on you explanation you have assumed full control of this project and you are asserting your self. The problem now, we do not need a dictator and the quickest way to run off developers like myself would do the very thing you are doing now. You must realize I'm not the only one that thinks this way.
If you see how much outburst and disclosing private information (vulnerable to at least one person!) Magnus Olsen did, it, unfortunately!, proofs he's mentally unstable, and can not take part in this project. He's welcome to send in patches though, I won't mind reviewing them, since legally his work could go into ReactOS repository.
If there are further questions, don't hesitate to continue discussion. I want to clear this up once and for good. One thing which I ensure you, there will be no committers who work against the project and open source.
With the best regards, Aleksey Bragin.
This is very formal and is not in any way threatening. I would appreciate having your last comment be recanted due to it creates a hostile environment. We are gentlemen here.
Thank you for your time answering this, Sincerely, James Tabor
Since I'm stuck at work without IRC, I need to do this the old fashioned way during my lunch break. I've followed the general discussion thanks to the IRC logs of other people, so here goes.
First, Aleksey, you said that the intial blowup occurred because Magnus went public and etc with what you said was a private issue between him and you. But you also said that his development/commit pattern was hurting the project. If that was the case, then I personally don't think it should have stayed an issue between just the two of you. If his changes were that disruptive, it's a matter that every member of the project needs to help deal with. And this should be the case no matter who the person is. Second, the need for a "repository coordinator" or someone besides yourself who has the ability to add and remove commit access is not merely an administrative matter. The lack of such a person placed more strain on you in the recent incident because the only person Magnus could go to after his commit access was limited was you, a person who had become extremely frustrated with him. Frustration can go both ways, as both of you became pissed at the other. Not the best mood to be in to resolve issues. While you, as the project coordinator, are the one who lays down a general direction for the project, it doesn't mean you need to act as the enforcer. Having one or two people who overlap in certain areas of responsibility helps let you avoid becoming too entangled in one particular issue and becoming too personally invested in it. In a major disagreement, that is definitely something to avoid.
The number of developers is still small, so it's not out of the ordinary that you pay personal attention to things you think are important or problematic. That's also not a bad thing, but you could easily become overextended and overworked. It also creates an overdependence on you for certain, mundane matters, which further spread you thin. You also may forget or not even be aware that a certain someone else may be able to help you with a specific issue, simply because that person never found such an issue falling into his/her (one day) field of responsibility.
There are plenty of people around you who can help you deal with these matters, just trust us to stay on the path you set. Even if you feel a developer isn't complying, that doesn't mean you personally need to go after them. The rest of us are here and if we know of the problem and how serious you think it is, we'd be able to help.
Anyways, that's my say in this entire affair. Also, the me logged in right now is my comp at home, for logging purposes, so I won't respond on IRC until I get home. On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 10:48 AM, James Tabor jimtabor.rosdev@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 5:05 AM, Aleksey Bragin aleksey@reactos.org wrote:
On Jun 24, 2008, at 2:21 AM, James Tabor wrote:
- The Project Coordinator Should attempt to make decisions according
to the consensus of the Project Members. Mr. Bragin is making procedural changes with out the full consensus of all Project Members.
When a so-called "audit" problem happened, it was almost the same (personal problems between developers, namely Hartmut Birr, Ge van Geldorp, Casper Hornstrup and Alex Ionescu, which resulted in mutual charges of various bad and made up things, and gladly picked up by some people related to Wine team to suppress ReactOS project development).
And yes, James, there was a democracy back then, and all decisions were made according to the consensus of Project Members. But do you remember what this led to? And where would it go if Mr. Geldorp would not help (even though he wasn't "at my side"!) and Mr. Bragin would not back up the repository and open it up for further development?
As for Repository Coordinator, why made up positions where there is no need? Coordinate what? And yes, I not only assumed, but took full control, in order to prevent situations like "audit fiasco" in future.
Used in the beginning to control us and manipulate the project. I guess based on you explanation you have assumed full control of this project and you are asserting your self. The problem now, we do not need a dictator and the quickest way to run off developers like myself would do the very thing you are doing now. You must realize I'm not the only one that thinks this way.
If you see how much outburst and disclosing private information (vulnerable to at least one person!) Magnus Olsen did, it, unfortunately!, proofs he's mentally unstable, and can not take part in this project. He's welcome to send in patches though, I won't mind reviewing them, since legally his work could go into ReactOS repository.
If there are further questions, don't hesitate to continue discussion. I want to clear this up once and for good. One thing which I ensure you, there will be no committers who work against the project and open source.
With the best regards, Aleksey Bragin.
This is very formal and is not in any way threatening. I would appreciate having your last comment be recanted due to it creates a hostile environment. We are gentlemen here.
Thank you for your time answering this, Sincerely, James Tabor _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Thanks for descriptive, and, what's even more important, a neutral, answer, without mutual blamings of someone (be it me, Magnus, or anyone else), I highly appreciate that.
We'll work out something for future, I'm sure, but there is no such thing as overdependence. It's like saying, "Magnus took whole DirectX development into his hands, it created an overdependance on him since noone else dared to touch this area". Or, "Alex Ionescu rewrote critical parts of the kernel, and it created an overdependance on him". I think you agree that sounds just silly, but that was absolutely the same what you were saying :)
With the best regards, Aleksey Bragin.
On Jun 25, 2008, at 9:30 PM, Zachary Gorden wrote:
Since I'm stuck at work without IRC, I need to do this the old fashioned way during my lunch break. I've followed the general discussion thanks to the IRC logs of other people, so here goes.
First, Aleksey, you said that the intial blowup occurred because Magnus went public and etc with what you said was a private issue between him and you. But you also said that his development/commit pattern was hurting the project. If that was the case, then I personally don't think it should have stayed an issue between just the two of you. If his changes were that disruptive, it's a matter that every member of the project needs to help deal with. And this should be the case no matter who the person is. Second, the need for a "repository coordinator" or someone besides yourself who has the ability to add and remove commit access is not merely an administrative matter. The lack of such a person placed more strain on you in the recent incident because the only person Magnus could go to after his commit access was limited was you, a person who had become extremely frustrated with him. Frustration can go both ways, as both of you became pissed at the other. Not the best mood to be in to resolve issues. While you, as the project coordinator, are the one who lays down a general direction for the project, it doesn't mean you need to act as the enforcer. Having one or two people who overlap in certain areas of responsibility helps let you avoid becoming too entangled in one particular issue and becoming too personally invested in it. In a major disagreement, that is definitely something to avoid.
The number of developers is still small, so it's not out of the ordinary that you pay personal attention to things you think are important or problematic. That's also not a bad thing, but you could easily become overextended and overworked. It also creates an overdependence on you for certain, mundane matters, which further spread you thin. You also may forget or not even be aware that a certain someone else may be able to help you with a specific issue, simply because that person never found such an issue falling into his/her (one day) field of responsibility.
There are plenty of people around you who can help you deal with these matters, just trust us to stay on the path you set. Even if you feel a developer isn't complying, that doesn't mean you personally need to go after them. The rest of us are here and if we know of the problem and how serious you think it is, we'd be able to help.
Anyways, that's my say in this entire affair. Also, the me logged in right now is my comp at home, for logging purposes, so I won't respond on IRC until I get home.
-
Aleksey Bragin -
James Tabor -
Zachary Gorden