Well, it's been fun, however i believe it is time for me to leave. ReactOS really has fallen to pieces and it's going to take a long time (years) to get things back on track. What really annoys me about this entire thing is that waaay back in the earlier days of ROS (before 0.1) Things were fun. Nothing worked, but things were fun. Development on ROS was actually HAPPENING (I know this because I myself was part of it). Since then things started changing. New developers appeared, a lot of flame wars were breaking out, etc. I stayed on the list, pitched in my 2 cents, etc. Though i stopped coding for the most part. Now it turns out that developers were using dirty room reverse engineering tactics, or have had access to the source code. I almost left then, but i figured i'd give it a little bit longer and see what happens. Now I see a bunch of arguing on the mailing list, ROS development has stopped, and I'm doubting it'll resume again for a long time, and things have just pretty well fallen apart. Even IF the audit is completed, ROS will likely be in pieces. It will NEVER be at the level it was before the audit.
Anyways, I believe it is time to start anew. New project, different name, different goals.
Until Then, Bye.
Richard Campbell ReactOS Developer and Long Time Fan
Hi Richard,
On 2/15/06, Richard eek2121@comcast.net wrote:
Anyways, I believe it is time to start anew. New project, different name, different goals.
We seem to be a ship that is taking on water. The only consolation I can give you is that the old tree will be restored somewhere as per the vote. From there auditing should take place.
-- Steven Edwards
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
Steven Edwards wrote:
We seem to be a ship that is taking on water.
Gee, if that's the attitude our Project Coordinator, role model and source of inspiration for the project, is taking, then I don't know what I should think. Are you just acting this unoptimistic because you feel like a captain who's almost got mutiny on his hands, or is it some other reason? From everything I've seen, I'd say things are looking up lately. But that's just my humble opinion.
mf.
Steven Edwards wrote:
Anyways, I believe it is time to start anew. New project, different name, different goals.
We seem to be a ship that is taking on water. The only consolation I can give you is that the old tree will be restored somewhere as per the vote. From there auditing should take place.
Voting is stupid. Auditing is stupid. Policies are stupid. Why is ReactOS dying? because coders cannot code anymore. Here's your crisis. All this trumpeting about the audit is stupid, and I seriously want to kick in the face whoever actually believes in it. It's only a convenient lie you all like to believe in
For the love of god, unlock the repository and resume the coding. Nobody wants the audit, and as it stands now it's completely useless - if there's dubious code, let someone _else_ do the audit. In the USA you have the DMCA, ok, but you have presumption of innocence too, so, christ almighty, use it. Let _Microsoft_ waste resources trying to demonstrate a copyright violation. Let them prove the reversing wasn't clean-room, if that's even possible (let _them_ find out if it is). You are digging your own graves, you don't even know who the "enemy" is and have never faced it. This is suicide. Legally we were and we are in no danger, you KNOW it's always been a matter of PR, but someone HAD to fuck it up royally (hey Hartmut, please eat shit and die. This is all your own fucking fault. Hope you're happy with the outcome of your sissy drama) and turn us into instant celebrities. Relax, chill, you cannot outdo Wine, PR-wise, they have investors, we don't - so why act like we did do, with all the issues and none of the benefits?
We don't need good PR, we need fucking CODE. Wasn't becoming a ReactOS developer a matter of trust and social networking? This used to be the beauty of it, that you didn't have to sign away your soul to partecipate. And I don't see what makes you believe that adding barriers will be beneficial - has it ever worked? EVER?
This is an open source project. Code is all that matters. No code flowing in, project dies
*****
Mr. Project Coordinator, take some risks, show some balls, be a fucking asshole about it if you have to, and recall the audit. It's only been a glorious display of weakness and ineptitude so far. You know it's killing the project while doing NO GOOD WHATSOEVER to it, save for HYPOTHETICAL, FUTURE and all-in-all IRRELEVANT benefits
Wine can ultimately suck dick, if that's what you're worried about. They're using a public license, they cannot revoke it. So if they don't like our policies, so long. We can parasite them, they cannot parasite us, all their loss if they want to turn it into a one-way relationship because mr. Investor has his ass itching about bad PR from us and Alexandre has to scratch him
Please let the code flow again. Let people do what they want to do
KJKHyperion wrote:
Steven Edwards wrote:
Anyways, I believe it is time to start anew. New project, different name, different goals.
We seem to be a ship that is taking on water. The only consolation I can give you is that the old tree will be restored somewhere as per the vote. From there auditing should take place.
Voting is stupid. Auditing is stupid. Policies are stupid. Why is ReactOS dying? because coders cannot code anymore. Here's your crisis. All this trumpeting about the audit is stupid, and I seriously want to kick in the face whoever actually believes in it. It's only a convenient lie you all like to believe in
For the love of god, unlock the repository and resume the coding. Nobody wants the audit, and as it stands now it's completely useless - if there's dubious code, let someone _else_ do the audit. In the USA you have the DMCA, ok, but you have presumption of innocence too, so, christ almighty, use it. Let _Microsoft_ waste resources trying to demonstrate a copyright violation. Let them prove the reversing wasn't clean-room, if that's even possible (let _them_ find out if it is). You are digging your own graves, you don't even know who the "enemy" is and have never faced it. This is suicide. Legally we were and we are in no danger, you KNOW it's always been a matter of PR, but someone HAD to fuck it up royally (hey Hartmut, please eat shit and die. This is all your own fucking fault. Hope you're happy with the outcome of your sissy drama) and turn us into instant celebrities. Relax, chill, you cannot outdo Wine, PR-wise, they have investors, we don't - so why act like we did do, with all the issues and none of the benefits?
We don't need good PR, we need fucking CODE. Wasn't becoming a ReactOS developer a matter of trust and social networking? This used to be the beauty of it, that you didn't have to sign away your soul to partecipate. And I don't see what makes you believe that adding barriers will be beneficial - has it ever worked? EVER?
This is an open source project. Code is all that matters. No code flowing in, project dies
Mr. Project Coordinator, take some risks, show some balls, be a fucking asshole about it if you have to, and recall the audit. It's only been a glorious display of weakness and ineptitude so far. You know it's killing the project while doing NO GOOD WHATSOEVER to it, save for HYPOTHETICAL, FUTURE and all-in-all IRRELEVANT benefits
Wine can ultimately suck dick, if that's what you're worried about. They're using a public license, they cannot revoke it. So if they don't like our policies, so long. We can parasite them, they cannot parasite us, all their loss if they want to turn it into a one-way relationship because mr. Investor has his ass itching about bad PR from us and Alexandre has to scratch him
Please let the code flow again. Let people do what they want to do
^-- What he said.
Great mail, KJK. People are standing up. First GreatLord, now you. This brings a smile on my face. Time to stop taking crap from everyone.
mf.
KJKHyperion wrote:
Steven Edwards wrote:
Anyways, I believe it is time to start anew. New project, different name, different goals.
We seem to be a ship that is taking on water. The only consolation I can give you is that the old tree will be restored somewhere as per the vote. From there auditing should take place.
Voting is stupid. Auditing is stupid. Policies are stupid. Why is ReactOS dying? because coders cannot code anymore. Here's your crisis. All this trumpeting about the audit is stupid, and I seriously want to kick in the face whoever actually believes in it. It's only a convenient lie you all like to believe in
For the love of god, unlock the repository and resume the coding. Nobody wants the audit, and as it stands now it's completely useless - if there's dubious code, let someone _else_ do the audit. In the USA you have the DMCA, ok, but you have presumption of innocence too, so, christ almighty, use it. Let _Microsoft_ waste resources trying to demonstrate a copyright violation. Let them prove the reversing wasn't clean-room, if that's even possible (let _them_ find out if it is). You are digging your own graves, you don't even know who the "enemy" is and have never faced it. This is suicide. Legally we were and we are in no danger, you KNOW it's always been a matter of PR, but someone HAD to fuck it up royally (hey Hartmut, please eat shit and die. This is all your own fucking fault. Hope you're happy with the outcome of your sissy drama) and turn us into instant celebrities. Relax, chill, you cannot outdo Wine, PR-wise, they have investors, we don't - so why act like we did do, with all the issues and none of the benefits?
We don't need good PR, we need fucking CODE. Wasn't becoming a ReactOS developer a matter of trust and social networking? This used to be the beauty of it, that you didn't have to sign away your soul to partecipate. And I don't see what makes you believe that adding barriers will be beneficial - has it ever worked? EVER?
This is an open source project. Code is all that matters. No code flowing in, project dies
Mr. Project Coordinator, take some risks, show some balls, be a fucking asshole about it if you have to, and recall the audit. It's only been a glorious display of weakness and ineptitude so far. You know it's killing the project while doing NO GOOD WHATSOEVER to it, save for HYPOTHETICAL, FUTURE and all-in-all IRRELEVANT benefits
Wine can ultimately suck dick, if that's what you're worried about. They're using a public license, they cannot revoke it. So if they don't like our policies, so long. We can parasite them, they cannot parasite us, all their loss if they want to turn it into a one-way relationship because mr. Investor has his ass itching about bad PR from us and Alexandre has to scratch him
Please let the code flow again. Let people do what they want to do _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
+++++
Brandon
I totally agree with Hyperion, not to mention that even the last version was far away from beeing really usable/stable as an os should be at least. I know there is much work that has been done, but as i recall the project was to make an os able of beeing an alternative to windows itself, politics and such, are matters that should be discusssed after the project has taken form, and imho it is not. So lets code and stop bitching about politics.
KJKHyperion wrote:
Voting is stupid. Auditing is stupid. Policies are stupid. Why is ReactOS dying? because coders cannot code anymore.
Hell Yes! DITTO! Good read!
Real interesting things that caused all this bull shit! Money? Manipulation?
Free ReactOS! Free ReactOS! Free ReactOS! Free ReactOS! Free ReactOS! Free ReactOS! Free ReactOS! Free ReactOS! James
On 2/16/06, Michael Fritscher michael@fritscher.net wrote:
Whoever want the code can get it anyway, so why hiding it?
Its not a matter of hiding. Its a question of distribution. If you think that the current ReactOS code is a derived work of copyrighted Windows code which was copied via improper reverse engineering then it becomes a legal question of distributing third party copyrighted material.
-- Steven Edwards
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
On 2/16/06, KJKHyperion hackbunny@reactos.com wrote:
For the love of god, unlock the repository and resume the coding. Nobody wants the audit, and as it stands now it's completely useless - if there's dubious code, let someone _else_ do the audit. In the USA you have the DMCA, ok, but you have presumption of innocence too, so, christ almighty, use it. Let _Microsoft_ waste resources trying to demonstrate a copyright violation. Let them prove the reversing wasn't clean-room, if that's even possible (let _them_ find out if it is). You are digging your own graves, you don't even know who the "enemy" is and have never faced it. This is suicide. Legally we were and we are in no danger, you KNOW it's always been a matter of PR, but someone HAD to fuck it up royally (hey Hartmut, please eat shit and die. This is all your own fucking fault. Hope you're happy with the outcome of your sissy drama) and turn us into instant celebrities. Relax, chill, you cannot outdo Wine, PR-wise, they have investors, we don't - so why act like we did do, with all the issues and none of the benefits?
I swear it seems like fewer and fewer people have any concept of "good faith". The whole point of auditing the code was that we would make a good faith effort to remove code that we know to not be implemented cleanly. Alex himself admitted that 99% of everything he wrote was by knowledge gained straight from disassembles. Its not like anyone would have to try very hard to make a case.
In regards to investors, before all of this mess I was making good progress with the $100 laptop people and many members of the FreeSoftware Foundation. Go check out David Sugars article on why he thought ReactOS was a good idea. The tide was turning in my discussions with business interests.
We don't need good PR, we need fucking CODE. Wasn't becoming a ReactOS developer a matter of trust and social networking? This used to be the beauty of it, that you didn't have to sign away your soul to partecipate. And I don't see what makes you believe that adding barriers will be beneficial - has it ever worked? EVER?
Yes we have CODE. And 90% of the kernel from the past two years is a derived work.
This is an open source project. Code is all that matters. No code flowing in, project dies
If its copied Microsoft code then it does not matter. See top.
Mr. Project Coordinator, take some risks, show some balls, be a fucking asshole about it if you have to, and recall the audit. It's only been a glorious display of weakness and ineptitude so far. You know it's killing the project while doing NO GOOD WHATSOEVER to it, save for HYPOTHETICAL, FUTURE and all-in-all IRRELEVANT benefits
If you want to see me be a asshole then I will fork the project myself and impose my dictatorship on the new project. Otherwise we will stick with the processes we have agreed upon. Guess what.....the B vote won. I disagree with it but thats what ReactOS is going to do. Someone is going to have to setup a new SVN repo with the old SVN as Exception is leaving. So do me a favor and wake up to the facts, this project is sinking by its own choices.
I tried to warn most of ReactOS Core in private over the past two years that a situation was coming that would blow out of control.
Wine can ultimately suck dick, if that's what you're worried about. They're using a public license, they cannot revoke it. So if they don't like our policies, so long. We can parasite them, they cannot parasite us, all their loss if they want to turn it into a one-way relationship because mr. Investor has his ass itching about bad PR from us and Alexandre has to scratch him
No at this point I am not worried about anything. I have sat by and watched more and more people that I enjoyed working with over the years say they were leaving:
Thomas, Emanual, Blight, Exception, Ge, Richard, Hartmut and others.
-- Steven Edwards
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
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Brandon Turner -
James Tabor -
Juan Rodriguez -
KJKHyperion -
mf -
Michael Fritscher -
Richard -
Steven Edwards