--- Alex IoIonescuioionucuivideotrona> wrote:
This climate of paranoia is getting to my nerves.
You could at least try to be civil in your discussion. Some of us have spent more than a few years on this project and have a right to be a little paranoid about if our lives work might be put in to danger.
As for Steven... WINE, ROS, and any other compatibility product out there is not 100% clean room. It has never been, will never be, cannot be. Especially if we consider debug information as being "dirty". Reminds me of people freaking out when I added functions that were in the IFS -- you'd hope people would've grown up by now--.
Still it depends on the source of the information. We have discussed in private my views on using the debug information. I will publicly state I think the law is ambiguous at best and the debug information should be a valid source given Microsoft position of being a monopoly as found by Anti-trust proceedings. That being said a court might not agree with me so any behavior must be 1. Reproduceable or 2. Documented.
I could make a list of over 25 parts of ReactOS Which are not 100% clean. But I won't, because that would tarnish our image. I would appreciate if you'd stop tarnishing mine and making accusations.
I am not trying to trash your image. I am simply mentioning the truth that everyone already knows but could be deadly to this project and others in a kangaroo court in the US. When your source of information comes from documentation or a third part program exhibiting certain behavior then there is not a legal question as to if a reimplementation is a original work. If you are basing your implementation of a feature only on the debug information then clearly, at least in my mind it runs the danger being found a derived work and everytime you do so it at the very least tarnishes ReactOS's image.
Thanks Steven
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Steven Edwards wrote:
--- Alex IoIonescuioionucuivideotrona> wrote:
This climate of paranoia is getting to my nerves.
You could at least try to be civil in your discussion. Some of us have spent more than a few years on this project and have a right to be a little paranoid about if our lives work might be put in to danger.
Oh, and I haven't? Just because I can't say "a few" years, means that suddently I don't really care that the 50-60KLOC of code in ReactOS that I wrote are put in danger?
As for Steven... WINE, ROS, and any other compatibility product out there is not 100% clean room. It has never been, will never be, cannot be. Especially if we consider debug information as being "dirty". Reminds me of people freaking out when I added functions that were in the IFS -- you'd hope people would've grown up by now--.
Still it depends on the source of the information. We have discussed in private my views on using the debug information. I will publicly state I think the law is ambiguous at best and the debug information should be a valid source given Microsoft position of being a monopoly as found by Anti-trust proceedings. That being said a court might not agree with me so any behavior must be 1. Reproduceable or 2. Documented.
This goes beyond debug information. This is reproduceable behaviour that probably any driver developper out there knows. Checked builds are builds recommended for testing your driver for bugs. If you call that function with a Queue Object, you WILL see that assert line-by-line on your screen. From that point on, one should stich his eyes out for having seen it, and shoot himself for knowing this behaviour?
Notwithstanding that they cannot sue the project, and that they would not sue you. This was a public comment to a friend... why would they sue Steven when Alex said what he said? And yes, I cannot wait to be sued... I can see the headlines -- Driver Developer sued for being aware of Windows Assertion --. I hope they also go after Mark Russinovich for having used the checked build to generate a tree of the Windows Source code!!
I could make a list of over 25 parts of ReactOS Which are not 100% clean. But I won't, because that would tarnish our image. I would appreciate if you'd stop tarnishing mine and making accusations.
I am not trying to trash your image. I am simply mentioning the truth that everyone already knows but could be deadly to this project and others in a kangaroo court in the US. When your source of information comes from documentation or a third part program exhibiting certain behavior then there is not a legal question as to if a reimplementation is a original work. If you are basing your implementation of a feature only on the debug information then clearly,
If you aren't, then why am I always the one being targeted with such comments. There are functions in ROS which are almost copies of their binary versions. There are structures in ROS which look like clones of the Windows ones (undocumented ones). There is functionality that was directly reversed engineered so that it would be compatible.
Yet, nobody says a word; everyone goes after Alex for having a conversation with a friend and mentionning a reproducible fact in every driver developer's life -- you do not KeWaitXxx on a Queue.
at least in my mind it runs the danger being found a derived work and everytime you do so it at the very least tarnishes ReactOS's image.
Probably as much as jumping on a guy who has written some of the highest quality and most useful code in the OS for the fact he used public information during an argument.
Thanks Steven
Best regards, Alex Ionescu
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Alex Ionescu -
Steven Edwards