Since I am not deep in developement and thus have no feeling about the curent state, I ask you:
How about the next Release build to put on sf.net?
Is the new build system running well, already?
Do we have the features for a 0.3? Will we want to do another intermediate?
From: Robert Köpferl
Since I am not deep in developement and thus have no feeling about the curent state, I ask you:
How about the next Release build to put on sf.net?
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Is the new build system running well, already?
Works well enough for me, I don't think this is blocking a release
Do we have the features for a 0.3? Will we want to do another intermediate?
Probably a 0.2.7.
Gé van Geldorp.
I've been asking for a intermediate release for a month now, and frankly now is not a good time. HEAD is going to need a while (again) after all of these header changes. After we got rbuild stabilized would have been a good time, but several of the developers are stuck in this "No more 0.2.x releases" mentality.
We are not going to get to 0.3.0 anytime soon unless someone other than arty works on networking (or we change the requirements for 0.3.0).
WD
On 6/20/05, Ge van Geldorp gvg@reactos.com wrote:
From: Robert Köpferl
Since I am not deep in developement and thus have no feeling about the curent state, I ask you:
How about the next Release build to put on sf.net?
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Is the new build system running well, already?
Works well enough for me, I don't think this is blocking a release
Do we have the features for a 0.3? Will we want to do another intermediate?
Probably a 0.2.7.
Gé van Geldorp.
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.com http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Hi, let's put it this way: I have no problem in doing an intermediate release. NEither idealistic nor by work. For my unterstanding, releases are time driven, not feature driven. So you're currently not feeling good for having a release build? I asked for a release one month ago, but I have to admit, not inbetween, anymore. So if not more people are worrying, I think we should have a try ???
WaxDragon said:
I've been asking for a intermediate release for a month now, and frankly now is not a good time. HEAD is going to need a while (again) after all of these header changes. After we got rbuild stabilized would have been a good time, but several of the developers are stuck in this "No more 0.2.x releases" mentality.
We are not going to get to 0.3.0 anytime soon unless someone other than arty works on networking (or we change the requirements for 0.3.0).
WD
On 6/20/05, Ge van Geldorp gvg@reactos.com wrote:
From: Robert Köpferl
Since I am not deep in developement and thus have no feeling about the curent state, I ask you:
How about the next Release build to put on sf.net?
Sounds like a good idea to me.
Is the new build system running well, already?
Works well enough for me, I don't think this is blocking a release
Do we have the features for a 0.3? Will we want to do another intermediate?
Probably a 0.2.7.
Gé van Geldorp.
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.com http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
-- <kjk_hyperion> I have a penchant for mischief, property damage and stalking <kjk_hyperion> and cheesecake, of course
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.com http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Robert k. wrote:
Hi, let's put it this way: I have no problem in doing an intermediate release. NEither idealistic nor by work. For my unterstanding, releases are time driven, not feature driven. So you're currently not feeling good for having a release build? I asked for a release one month ago, but I have to admit, not inbetween, anymore. So if not more people are worrying, I think we should have a try ???
I still have a problem with a 0.2.7 release, especially as Filip and I are in the middle of changing the whole header system, which probably will add a couple of regressions, and still needs to be tested. I also have a problem because nothing has changed on the networking stage yet...I was hoping to have time to merge in my new Winsock DLLs... the reason I haven't yet is because Filip started working on the headers, and I couldn't be left out in the dust, and he needed my help with the NDK. Additionally, we still don't have anything new for the user. People are getting TIRED and they YAWN when they see another ReactOS release. Our changelogs are usually nothing more then "fixed bug X in function X, made function Y faster"... real users don't see any benefits. Look at 0.2.6, they only thing they noticed is that it sucked more then 0.2.5, because we didn't test it adequately. Users know how to wait for something; right now we've made them wait a long time for this new ReactOS released and promised them amazing things.. and what are we going to deliver? Some bugfixes they won't understand? This will just dilute the ReactOS releases and make them seem as meaningful as the Colored Terrorist Alert in the USA.
I think instead, what should be done is to finally get around to CHANGING OUR HOMEPAGE which is OUTDATED and confuses users with INCORRECT DATA. I'm sorry to rant about this again, but what is taking so long? I also logged in to our SF homepage and it's in a dire state. I don't think there is even any link to our main homepage. And more importantly, we really need to add a link to Nighlty Builds, so people that really want the latest can try it out. Do you see Firefox releasing every 3 months? Linux? No, they release when there is something to show (or a critical security issue).
Best regards, Alex Ionescu
I've got a few small suggestions on how to get Users interested in ReactOS.
You don't need a new release to do that. In fact, as Alex as pointed out, too many releases can be pointless if the user can see no difference in their OS Usage over the previous version.
If you really want to make a new release, follow the Firefox Example, and release it as "ReactOS 0.2.7 (Or even 0.2.6.5 if the 0.2.7 leap is too large to warrent that) Developer Update". That way, the Users on the outside will say, "Hmm, this is for developers only, I'm not one of them, so I'll stick with 0.2.6". That's the Theory, anyway.
And I agree about the website. It's bland, outdated, and frankly, ugly. The ReactOS phpBB forum was a good start at adding a more user-friendly discussion environment (Instead of that old comment system... Ugh..), but the website frontpage needs a serious overhaul.
Another idea is a more user-orientated set of Blogs. Right now, I've only come across Blogs from the developers that don't get updated often, and most users tend to equate 'No Blog Updates = No Real Progress'. If you can get users to post about what's going on in ReactOS (So the developers can concentrate 100% on writing code), that could be quite benificial.
About the Nightly Builds... Why not use Sourceforge to maintain a list of Nighty Builds (Up to a month's worth), and have that linked to on the ReactOS Site?
Just a few suggestions for ReactOS
-TTF
On 6/22/05, Alex Ionescu ionucu@videotron.ca wrote:
Robert k. wrote:
Hi, let's put it this way: I have no problem in doing an intermediate release. NEither idealistic nor by work. For my unterstanding, releases are time driven, not feature driven. So you're currently not feeling good for having a release build? I asked for a release one month ago, but I have to admit, not inbetween, anymore. So if not more people are worrying, I think we should have a try ???
I still have a problem with a 0.2.7 release, especially as Filip and I are in the middle of changing the whole header system, which probably will add a couple of regressions, and still needs to be tested. I also have a problem because nothing has changed on the networking stage yet...I was hoping to have time to merge in my new Winsock DLLs... the reason I haven't yet is because Filip started working on the headers, and I couldn't be left out in the dust, and he needed my help with the NDK. Additionally, we still don't have anything new for the user. People are getting TIRED and they YAWN when they see another ReactOS release. Our changelogs are usually nothing more then "fixed bug X in function X, made function Y faster"... real users don't see any benefits. Look at 0.2.6, they only thing they noticed is that it sucked more then 0.2.5, because we didn't test it adequately. Users know how to wait for something; right now we've made them wait a long time for this new ReactOS released and promised them amazing things.. and what are we going to deliver? Some bugfixes they won't understand? This will just dilute the ReactOS releases and make them seem as meaningful as the Colored Terrorist Alert in the USA.
I think instead, what should be done is to finally get around to CHANGING OUR HOMEPAGE which is OUTDATED and confuses users with INCORRECT DATA. I'm sorry to rant about this again, but what is taking so long? I also logged in to our SF homepage and it's in a dire state. I don't think there is even any link to our main homepage. And more importantly, we really need to add a link to Nighlty Builds, so people that really want the latest can try it out. Do you see Firefox releasing every 3 months? Linux? No, they release when there is something to show (or a critical security issue).
Best regards, Alex Ionescu
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.com http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Seems simple to me if the testing of 0.2.7 would help you out, release it. If not, don't.
Hi!
I'm just waiting for the new design (mf?) to start changing the homepage. Nothing else is holding us back. I've also quite a lot of time, so I could start working on it.
Greetings Michael (Website Coordinator)
TwoTailedFox wrote:
I've got a few small suggestions on how to get Users interested in ReactOS.
You don't need a new release to do that. In fact, as Alex as pointed out, too many releases can be pointless if the user can see no difference in their OS Usage over the previous version.
If you really want to make a new release, follow the Firefox Example, and release it as "ReactOS 0.2.7 (Or even 0.2.6.5 if the 0.2.7 leap is too large to warrent that) Developer Update". That way, the Users on the outside will say, "Hmm, this is for developers only, I'm not one of them, so I'll stick with 0.2.6". That's the Theory, anyway.
And I agree about the website. It's bland, outdated, and frankly, ugly. The ReactOS phpBB forum was a good start at adding a more user-friendly discussion environment (Instead of that old comment system... Ugh..), but the website frontpage needs a serious overhaul.
Another idea is a more user-orientated set of Blogs. Right now, I've only come across Blogs from the developers that don't get updated often, and most users tend to equate 'No Blog Updates = No Real Progress'. If you can get users to post about what's going on in ReactOS (So the developers can concentrate 100% on writing code), that could be quite benificial.
About the Nightly Builds... Why not use Sourceforge to maintain a list of Nighty Builds (Up to a month's worth), and have that linked to on the ReactOS Site?
Just a few suggestions for ReactOS
-TTF
On 6/22/05, Alex Ionescu ionucu@videotron.ca wrote:
Robert k. wrote:
Hi, let's put it this way: I have no problem in doing an intermediate release. NEither idealistic nor by work. For my unterstanding, releases are time driven, not feature driven. So you're currently not feeling good for having a release build? I asked for a release one month ago, but I have to admit, not inbetween, anymore. So if not more people are worrying, I think we should have a try ???
I still have a problem with a 0.2.7 release, especially as Filip and I are in the middle of changing the whole header system, which probably will add a couple of regressions, and still needs to be tested. I also have a problem because nothing has changed on the networking stage yet...I was hoping to have time to merge in my new Winsock DLLs... the reason I haven't yet is because Filip started working on the headers, and I couldn't be left out in the dust, and he needed my help with the NDK. Additionally, we still don't have anything new for the user. People are getting TIRED and they YAWN when they see another ReactOS release. Our changelogs are usually nothing more then "fixed bug X in function X, made function Y faster"... real users don't see any benefits. Look at 0.2.6, they only thing they noticed is that it sucked more then 0.2.5, because we didn't test it adequately. Users know how to wait for something; right now we've made them wait a long time for this new ReactOS released and promised them amazing things.. and what are we going to deliver? Some bugfixes they won't understand? This will just dilute the ReactOS releases and make them seem as meaningful as the Colored Terrorist Alert in the USA.
I think instead, what should be done is to finally get around to CHANGING OUR HOMEPAGE which is OUTDATED and confuses users with INCORRECT DATA. I'm sorry to rant about this again, but what is taking so long? I also logged in to our SF homepage and it's in a dire state. I don't think there is even any link to our main homepage. And more importantly, we really need to add a link to Nighlty Builds, so people that really want the latest can try it out. Do you see Firefox releasing every 3 months? Linux? No, they release when there is something to show (or a critical security issue).
Best regards, Alex Ionescu
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.com http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
I agree the site needs updated.
Still, there have been several key improvements since 0.2.6:
* qemu's user-net ne2000 works right from the bootcd * win32k has had some work, making at least second stage installer more responsive * rbuild has been successfully merged * all the other crap that we have fixed
OTOH,
* networking has regressed in some areas * all the other crap we have regressed or broken
There is alot of talk of our "users", but I don't think we have a good idea of who they really are, at this point in time.
Haven't you ever updated a piece of software just because it was newer? I can't remember the last time I updated my linux kernel other than it has just been released. Can't we just go back in the late 15xxx revs, pick a release that builds and generally works and run it though the release process?
We are so far along, I could be almost tempted to wait for 0.3.0 after the current header work, if we could get a focused effort on networking after it's done. It would need to be a release soon though, I remember telling people in IRC late last year that 0.3.0 was going to be at the end of the year. What about those "users"?
You guys are doing a kickass job as always, WD
On 6/22/05, Alex Ionescu ionucu@videotron.ca wrote:
Robert k. wrote:
Hi, let's put it this way: I have no problem in doing an intermediate release. NEither idealistic nor by work. For my unterstanding, releases are time driven, not feature driven. So you're currently not feeling good for having a release build? I asked for a release one month ago, but I have to admit, not inbetween, anymore. So if not more people are worrying, I think we should have a try ???
I still have a problem with a 0.2.7 release, especially as Filip and I are in the middle of changing the whole header system, which probably will add a couple of regressions, and still needs to be tested. I also have a problem because nothing has changed on the networking stage yet...I was hoping to have time to merge in my new Winsock DLLs... the reason I haven't yet is because Filip started working on the headers, and I couldn't be left out in the dust, and he needed my help with the NDK. Additionally, we still don't have anything new for the user. People are getting TIRED and they YAWN when they see another ReactOS release. Our changelogs are usually nothing more then "fixed bug X in function X, made function Y faster"... real users don't see any benefits. Look at 0.2.6, they only thing they noticed is that it sucked more then 0.2.5, because we didn't test it adequately. Users know how to wait for something; right now we've made them wait a long time for this new ReactOS released and promised them amazing things.. and what are we going to deliver? Some bugfixes they won't understand? This will just dilute the ReactOS releases and make them seem as meaningful as the Colored Terrorist Alert in the USA.
I think instead, what should be done is to finally get around to CHANGING OUR HOMEPAGE which is OUTDATED and confuses users with INCORRECT DATA. I'm sorry to rant about this again, but what is taking so long? I also logged in to our SF homepage and it's in a dire state. I don't think there is even any link to our main homepage. And more importantly, we really need to add a link to Nighlty Builds, so people that really want the latest can try it out. Do you see Firefox releasing every 3 months? Linux? No, they release when there is something to show (or a critical security issue).
Best regards, Alex Ionescu
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.com http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Hi! WaxDragon wrote:
I agree the site needs updated.
Still, there have been several key improvements since 0.2.6:
- qemu's user-net ne2000 works right from the bootcd
- win32k has had some work, making at least second stage installer
more responsive
- rbuild has been successfully merged
- all the other crap that we have fixed
Major fixes to old hacks. Improvements to ntoskrnl.
OTOH,
- networking has regressed in some areas
- all the other crap we have regressed or broken
Yes three steps forward and two steps back.
There is alot of talk of our "users", but I don't think we have a good idea of who they really are, at this point in time.
Haven't you ever updated a piece of software just because it was newer? I can't remember the last time I updated my linux kernel other than it has just been released. Can't we just go back in the late 15xxx revs, pick a release that builds and generally works and run it though the release process?
We are so far along, I could be almost tempted to wait for 0.3.0 after the current header work, if we could get a focused effort on networking after it's done. It would need to be a release soon though, I remember telling people in IRC late last year that 0.3.0 was going to be at the end of the year. What about those "users"?
You guys are doing a kickass job as always, WD
James
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Alex Ionescu -
Bryan Quigley -
Freeworld -
Ge van Geldorp -
James Tabor -
Robert k. -
Robert Köpferl
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TwoTailedFox -
WaxDragon