RE: [ros-dev] Constitution

[Murphy, Ged (Bolton)]

Ge van Geldorp wrote:
>   
> >   From: Murphy, Ged (Bolton)
> >  
> >  Another quick point to say that using the voting facility on 
> >  the board would remove the issue of giving a 'project 
> >  secretary' power in a secret vote. The software would control 
> >  that ..... And software doesn't lie or cheat  :) 
>  
>  But the database administrator (i.e.: me) could... You're just moving the
>  power from the project secretary to the dba.
>   
But you would have to manually edit the database and everyone would
immediately notice the change as the results are updated in real-time for
everyone to see. In that respect, although the DBA has the power to change
it as they see fit, it would be very silly to do so.
There will always be some level at which the results could be changed. If we
had a secretary, some could break into their computer and alter the results,
or they could be bribed. I think we have to accept this and draw a line at
what we consider an acceptable, reliable and trustworthy control system.

I think using the forums is the best way of removing the power of
controlling the votes from everyone.

I know you can be trusted not to alter the database, in the same way I can
be trusted not to break into the database and alter it myself.

Using the forum voting system also removes any form of human error.


> >   In the way the
> > phpbb forums voting works, each voter will 
> >  only ever be able to make 1 vote, even if they have multiple 
> >  usernames, as only 1 of those usernames will be in the 
> >  'developer' group.
> >  
> >  You can even go as far as making the forum hidden from 
> >  everyone not in the developer group ..... Although I think 
> >  this is wrong, and should be read only to everyone else. 
>  
>  But every other developer still gets to see my vote I think? Doesn't sound
>  like a true secret ballot. 
Although everyone can see the vote status, it's not possible to see who
voted for a particular option. It's only evident that 'someone' has voted.

You could even go as far as setting your board preferences so that your name
is not shown as being online when you logon. This will give complete
anonymity.

Ged.








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[Ge van Geldorp]

>   But you would have to manually edit the database and
> everyone 
>  would immediately notice the change as the results are 
>  updated in real-time for everyone to see. 
You underestimate my sneekiness... I can't remove votes, but I can smuggle
in a few extra votes near the end of the vote period (assuming not every
developer votes).

>   Although everyone can see the vote status, it's
> not possible 
>  to see who voted for a particular option. It's only evident 
>  that 'someone' has voted. 
Yes, sorry, I was being daft. I finally get what you were proposing. And I
like it :-).

Gé van Geldorp.

[Freworld]

If the forum is not the form you like I could include another form of 
website voting. You could also peculate voting mails on the mailing 
list. This project stands on a certain factor of trust.

A voting system on the website would be much more clear. If someone 
doesn't get a vote and then says it didn't happen you can give him a 
link to the vote and everything will be crystal clear.

Perhaps we should make a vote which voting system is preferred? :)

Greetings
Michael

Murphy, Ged (Bolton) wrote:

>  Ge van Geldorp wrote:
>   
>
> > >  From:
> > > Murphy, Ged (Bolton)
> > >
> > > Another quick point to say that using the voting facility on 
> > > the board would remove the issue of giving a 'project 
> > > secretary' power in a secret vote. The software would control 
> > > that ..... And software doesn't lie or cheat  :)
> > >       
> > >  
> > But the database administrator (i.e.: me) could... You're just moving the
> > power from the project secretary to the dba.
> >
> >     
> >  
> But you would have to manually edit the database and everyone would
> immediately notice the change as the results are updated in real-time for
> everyone to see. In that respect, although the DBA has the power to change
> it as they see fit, it would be very silly to do so.
> There will always be some level at which the results could be changed. If we
> had a secretary, some could break into their computer and alter the results,
> or they could be bribed. I think we have to accept this and draw a line at
> what we consider an acceptable, reliable and trustworthy control system.
>
> I think using the forums is the best way of removing the power of
> controlling the votes from everyone.
>
> I know you can be trusted not to alter the database, in the same way I can
> be trusted not to break into the database and alter it myself.
>
> Using the forum voting system also removes any form of human error.
>
>
>   
>
> > >  In the way
> > > the phpbb forums voting works, each voter will 
> > > only ever be able to make 1 vote, even if they have multiple 
> > > usernames, as only 1 of those usernames will be in the 
> > > 'developer' group.
> > >
> > > You can even go as far as making the forum hidden from 
> > > everyone not in the developer group ..... Although I think 
> > > this is wrong, and should be read only to everyone else.
> > >       
> > >  
> > But every other developer still gets to see my vote I think? Doesn't sound
> > like a true secret ballot.
> >     
> >  
> Although everyone can see the vote status, it's not possible to see who
> voted for a particular option. It's only evident that 'someone' has voted.
>
> You could even go as far as setting your board preferences so that your name
> is not shown as being online when you logon. This will give complete
> anonymity.
>
> Ged.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************************************************
> The information contained in this message or any of its
> attachments is confidential and is intended for the exclusive
> use of the addressee. The information may also be legally
> privileged. The views expressed may not be company policy,
> but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the
> addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other
> dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this message in error, please contact
> postmaster(a)exideuk.co.uk 
> <mailto:[e-mail]> and then delete this message. 
>
> Exide Technologies is an industrial and transportation battery
> producer and recycler with operations in 89 countries.
> Further information can be found at www.exide.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ros-dev mailing list
> Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>
>   
>

[K McI]

Murphy, Ged (Bolton) wrote:
>   You could even go as far as setting your board
> preferences so that your name
>  is not shown as being online when you logon. This will give complete
>  anonymity. 
Except to anyone but Administrators, who can see those people too. If 
you were insanely paranoid you could alter that for devs, go on when 
noone else is on, or go when multiple devs are on. However that may be 
getting into the realm of paranoia.

          -uQ