Ros-dev

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5790 discussions

RE: [ros-dev] RE: ncpa
by Murphy, Ged (Bolton) 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Ge van Geldorp wrote: > > The status of the applet when I worked on it was that the UI > was complete > and I was starting to work on transfering the data from the > dialog to the > TCP/IP driver (via the DHCP client). That part simply isn't > implemented yet. Is there a particular reason you were doing this via the DHCP client and not just using functions provided by iphlpapi? Ged. ************************************************************************ The information contained in this message or any of its attachments is confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. The views expressed may not be company policy, but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact postmaster(a)exideuk.co.uk <mailto:postmaster@exideuk.co.uk> and then delete this message. Exide Technologies is an industrial and transportation battery producer and recycler with operations in 89 countries. Further information can be found at www.exide.com

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Oh, and then the ROS-Explorer bug with the Folder-Icons
by theUser BL 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

Oh, I have fogotten to mention, that there is also a bug in the ROS-Explorer, that the icon for folders is the same like that for files.

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RE: [ros-dev] Re: Oh, and then the ROS-Explorer bug with the Fold er-Icons
by Murphy, Ged (Bolton) 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

There are still lots of little bugs in the explorer resources, but they will be ironed out as we go along. Ged. -----Original Message----- From: theUser BL [mailto:theuserbl@hotmail.com] Sent: 28 April 2006 13:28 To: ros-dev(a)reactos.org Subject: [ros-dev] Re: Oh, and then the ROS-Explorer bug with the Folder-Icons >What do you mean by "files" ? >If "files" refer to unknown type, Yes, that is what I mean. Thats when I go over "My Computer" in "C:\". Then all directories and unknown files looks like the same. >I can confirm they have different icons that folders in r21750. Oh, thanks for information. Then the bug was fixed. I will later at home first testing r21747, because I take my snapshots from http://svn.reactos.ru/iso/ and 21747 is the latest which is there published. But the snapshot from yesterday have had the still the problem, that the icons for directories is an empty letter. And thats the same icon like for unknown files. Greatings theuserbl _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev(a)reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ************************************************************************ The information contained in this message or any of its attachments is confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. The views expressed may not be company policy, but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact postmaster(a)exideuk.co.uk <mailto:postmaster@exideuk.co.uk> and then delete this message. Exide Technologies is an industrial and transportation battery producer and recycler with operations in 89 countries. Further information can be found at www.exide.com

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Re: Oh, and then the ROS-Explorer bug with the Folder-Icons
by theUser BL 28 Apr '06

28 Apr '06

>What do you mean by "files" ? >If "files" refer to unknown type, Yes, that is what I mean. Thats when I go over "My Computer" in "C:\". Then all directories and unknown files looks like the same. >I can confirm they have different icons that folders in r21750. Oh, thanks for information. Then the bug was fixed. I will later at home first testing r21747, because I take my snapshots from http://svn.reactos.ru/iso/ and 21747 is the latest which is there published. But the snapshot from yesterday have had the still the problem, that the icons for directories is an empty letter. And thats the same icon like for unknown files. Greatings theuserbl

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wineconf update....if your comming please check this
by Steven Edwards 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

>From Wine-devel and jwhite Jeremy White to wine-devel, wineconf More options 11:33 am (53 minutes ago) Hi folks, I am pleased to announce that Rob Shearman has arranged for us to have Wineconf in his home town, Reading, in the UK. It will be held at the University of Reading: http://www.fmd.rdg.ac.uk/res/CommercialAccommodation.asp It will be on the weekend of September 16 and 17. We have a wrinkle we need your help on. That is, as we make our deposit (which we need to do quickly), we have to tell them how many rooms we want to reserve. The have a good deal on rooms (40 pounds/night, which is quite good, afaict). The trick is that we have to pay for all the rooms we reserve ahead of time; we can't ask for 50 rooms and then only use 43. We have to pay for all 50. We may be able to ask for 50 rooms, and then get another 3 or 4, although that's not guaranteed. So, *if you want a room at Wineconf*, please fill in this form ASAP: http://www.winehq.org/site/wineconf/survey06 If you're not sure you'll make it, but think you might, we have a choice for that too <grin>. Act now or you'll be sleeping in Swindon... Cheers, Jeremy -- Steven Edwards "There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo

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RE: [ros-dev] need help debugging
by Murphy, Ged (Bolton) 27 Apr '06

27 Apr '06

Are you not able to use a VM? It' makes life much easier, and IMO, it's essential for development work. ROS does have one or two problems with real hardware at the moment, and it's hard to pinpoint without a debugger. If you can get a photo of the BSOD, it would help. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Quiring [mailto:pquiring@gmail.com] Sent: 26 April 2006 17:23 To: ros-dev(a)reactos.org Subject: [ros-dev] need help debugging Hi all, I'm new to ROS but I've had a few patches accepted to Wine. I'm having difficulty with the website and I can't seem to login (even after enabling multisession) so I can't use bugzilla or the forums. So anyways, I've got ROS to compile (RosBE is great!)/build/install on two systems but I'm getting the following problems on one system (Dell Inspiron 5150 Laptop): During install it shows a 17592185991168 MB unused space partition after my 60 GB FAT32 partition. But install still works okay. During 1st boot I get a bsod, I don't have a COM port (USB only) so I tried to use the SCREEN output option but it's too fast to read. I've try to use the FILE option but only 600+ bytes are written to the debug.log file. I know the cache_manager isn't being flushed because everytime it crashes the contents of the folders in "Documents & settings" folder are corrupt (ie: "All Users.Reactos", etc.) So my question is : How can I disable the cache_manager? Or can I place sync() commands somewhere in the source for testing. (is there such a function available?). The bsod seems to be related to gdi issues during creating the primary surface. Somewhere the DeviceObject for the screen is NULL and is not caught till it causes a GPE much later. I'll give a little info that I've written down. /ntoskrnl/io/irp.c:570 - GPE /ntoskrnl/io/irp.c:911 /subsystems/win32/win32k/objects/dc.c:693 /subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/winsta.c:348 /subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/guicheck.c:57 /subsystems/win32/win32k/objects/dc.c:853 /subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/windc.c:121 /subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/windc.c:441 /subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/windc.c:529 /subsystems/win32/win32k/ntuser/windc.c:101 /ntoskrnl/ke/traps.c:306 /dll/win32/user32/windows/dialog.c:696 Hope this helps. I was using the lastest SVN at the time (21738 I think). Thanks. Peter Quiring _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev(a)reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev ************************************************************************ The information contained in this message or any of its attachments is confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. The views expressed may not be company policy, but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact postmaster(a)exideuk.co.uk <mailto:postmaster@exideuk.co.uk> and then delete this message. Exide Technologies is an industrial and transportation battery producer and recycler with operations in 89 countries. Further information can be found at www.exide.com

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RE: [ros-dev] RE: ncpa
by Murphy, Ged (Bolton) 26 Apr '06

26 Apr '06

Ge van Geldorp wrote: > > > From: Murphy, Ged (Bolton) > > > > I was thinking along the lines of stopping the DHCP service > > and calling AddIPAddress, which should be the same as > > inserting the address manually in the registry. I haven't > > looked into this though, so might not work. > > I kind of like the Windows design: the DHCP client service is actually > implemented in dhcpcsvc.dll (you can see the "ServiceMain" > export). This > allows concentration of all usermode IP address/registry > stuff in one DLL. > AddIPAddress would then call into dhcpcsvc. Do you know how much work would be involved in moving our DHCP client into dhcpcsvc and implementing everything around this? If it's quite a lot of work it might be worth me trying out what I mentioned, just has a hack until we have time to do things the Windows way. If your ReactOS work is going to concentrate solely on the kernel now, we might be waiting a long time to get this implemented as nobody seems to want to pick ncpa up. It's become the ReactOS forbidden fruit ;) Any method would be good at this stage to get ncpa working, as it's our only missing feature for the 0.3 release. Ged. ************************************************************************ The information contained in this message or any of its attachments is confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. The views expressed may not be company policy, but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact postmaster(a)exideuk.co.uk <mailto:postmaster@exideuk.co.uk> and then delete this message. Exide Technologies is an industrial and transportation battery producer and recycler with operations in 89 countries. Further information can be found at www.exide.com

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RE: [ros-dev] RE: ncpa
by Murphy, Ged (Bolton) 26 Apr '06

26 Apr '06

Ge van Geldorp wrote: > > > From: Murphy, Ged (Bolton) > > > > Is there a particular reason you were doing this via the DHCP > > client and not just using functions provided by iphlpapi? > > I couldn't find iphlpapi functions to do this. But even if > they're there, > iphlpapi will need to inform the DHCP client about the change > to static IP > address (basically telling the DHCP client to shut up and go > to sleep). I was thinking along the lines of stopping the DHCP service and calling AddIPAddress, which should be the same as inserting the address manually in the registry. I haven't looked into this though, so might not work. (stopping the service would need a temporary hack, as it's not been converted to an NT service yet, plus we don't have StartService to restart it) Ged. ************************************************************************ The information contained in this message or any of its attachments is confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. The views expressed may not be company policy, but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact postmaster(a)exideuk.co.uk <mailto:postmaster@exideuk.co.uk> and then delete this message. Exide Technologies is an industrial and transportation battery producer and recycler with operations in 89 countries. Further information can be found at www.exide.com

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Non-fatal filesystem corruption?
by WaxDragon 26 Apr '06

26 Apr '06

After I had linux complain at me during a file copy onto a ReactOS partition, I checked it with dosfsck, and found all some issues. Since then I have been checking the partition I use for vmware after installs. dosfsck has been finding errors every time. I ran a quick regression test and it seems the was introduced between 0.2.8 and 0.2.9. It seems that most of these errors are non fatal, as myself and others have not noticed this causing any problems. Still, it bothers me, since it could be causing a problem somewhere. GreyGhost claimed Windows was not finding any issues with his ros partition, can anyone confirm? I'm using flat disk images under vmware and qemu, and I'm seeing this issue under both. I'm using both IDE and SCSI drives under vmware, and see the issues with both types. Anyone who is more famliar with filesystems care to comment? dosfsck of a 0.2.9(and HEAD) install: root@phoenix:/home/ford/public/virtuals/vmware/ReactOS# dosfsck -v /dev/loop0 dosfsck 2.10 (22 Sep 2003) dosfsck 2.10, 22 Sep 2003, FAT32, LFN Checking we can access the last sector of the filesystem Boot sector contents: System ID "MSWIN4.1" Media byte 0xf8 (hard disk) 512 bytes per logical sector 8192 bytes per cluster 1 reserved sector First FAT starts at byte 512 (sector 1) 2 FATs, 16 bit entries 102400 bytes per FAT (= 200 sectors) Root directory starts at byte 205312 (sector 401) 512 root directory entries Data area starts at byte 221696 (sector 433) 51125 data clusters (418816000 bytes) 63 sectors/track, 16 heads 63 hidden sectors 818433 sectors total /ReactOS/SYSTEM32/CONFIG/SYSTEM File size is 61440 bytes, cluster chain length is > 65536 bytes. Truncating file to 61440 bytes. /ReactOS/SYSTEM32/CONFIG/SOFTWARE File size is 122880 bytes, cluster chain length is > 122880 bytes. Truncating file to 122880 bytes. Checking for unused clusters. Leaving file system unchanged. /dev/loop0: 361 files, 6907/51125 clusters dosfsck of a 0.2.8 install: root@phoenix:/home/ford/public/virtuals/vmware/ReactOS# dosfsck -v /dev/loop0 dosfsck 2.10 (22 Sep 2003) dosfsck 2.10, 22 Sep 2003, FAT32, LFN Checking we can access the last sector of the filesystem Boot sector contents: System ID "MSWIN4.1" Media byte 0xf8 (hard disk) 512 bytes per logical sector 8192 bytes per cluster 1 reserved sector First FAT starts at byte 512 (sector 1) 2 FATs, 16 bit entries 102400 bytes per FAT (= 200 sectors) Root directory starts at byte 205312 (sector 401) 512 root directory entries Data area starts at byte 221696 (sector 433) 51125 data clusters (418816000 bytes) 63 sectors/track, 16 heads 63 hidden sectors 818433 sectors total Checking for unused clusters. /dev/loop0: 324 files, 5501/51125 clusters Here is a dosfsck of the scsi build disk I use under vmware, after a partial build: root@phoenix:/home/ford/public/virtuals/vmware/ReactOS# losetup -o 32256 /dev/loop0 build-scsi-flat.vmdk root@phoenix:/home/ford/public/virtuals/vmware/ReactOS# dosfsck -v /dev/loop0 dosfsck 2.10 (22 Sep 2003) dosfsck 2.10, 22 Sep 2003, FAT32, LFN Checking we can access the last sector of the filesystem Boot sector contents: System ID "MSWIN4.1" Media byte 0xf8 (hard disk) 512 bytes per logical sector 4096 bytes per cluster 32 reserved sectors First FAT starts at byte 16384 (sector 32) 2 FATs, 32 bit entries 4185088 bytes per FAT (= 8174 sectors) Root directory start at cluster 2 (arbitrary size) Data area starts at byte 8386560 (sector 16380) 1046185 data clusters (4285173760 bytes) 63 sectors/track, 255 heads 63 hidden sectors 8385867 sectors total /REACTOS/makefile.auto File size is 2274845 bytes, cluster chain length is > 2277376 bytes. Truncating file to 2274845 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/FONTS/COUR.TTF File size is 144456 bytes, cluster chain length is > 147456 bytes. Truncating file to 144456 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/FONTS/.svn/text-base/cour.ttf.svn-base File size is 144456 bytes, cluster chain length is > 147456 bytes. Truncating file to 144456 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/NLS/C_949.NLS File size is 196642 bytes, cluster chain length is > 200704 bytes. Truncating file to 196642 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/NLS/C_932.NLS File size is 162850 bytes, cluster chain length is > 163840 bytes. Truncating file to 162850 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/NLS/C_950.NLS File size is 196642 bytes, cluster chain length is > 200704 bytes. Truncating file to 196642 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/NLS/C_936.NLS File size is 196642 bytes, cluster chain length is > 200704 bytes. Truncating file to 196642 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/NLS/.svn/text-base/c_949.nls.svn-base File size is 196642 bytes, cluster chain length is > 200704 bytes. Truncating file to 196642 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/NLS/.svn/text-base/c_932.nls.svn-base File size is 162850 bytes, cluster chain length is > 163840 bytes. Truncating file to 162850 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/NLS/.svn/text-base/c_950.nls.svn-base File size is 196642 bytes, cluster chain length is > 200704 bytes. Truncating file to 196642 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/NLS/.svn/text-base/c_936.nls.svn-base File size is 196642 bytes, cluster chain length is > 200704 bytes. Truncating file to 196642 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/DRIVERS/ETC/SERVICES File size is 398472 bytes, cluster chain length is > 401408 bytes. Truncating file to 398472 bytes. /REACTOS/MEDIA/DRIVERS/ETC/.svn/text-base/services.svn-base File size is 390238 bytes, cluster chain length is > 393216 bytes. Truncating file to 390238 bytes. /REACTOS/subsystems/WIN32/WIN32K/INCLUDE/NAPI.H File size is 34990 bytes, cluster chain length is > 36864 bytes. Truncating file to 34990 bytes. /REACTOS/subsystems/WIN32/WIN32K/DIB/DIB8GEN.C File size is 678744 bytes, cluster chain length is > 679936 bytes. Truncating file to 678744 bytes. /REACTOS/subsystems/WIN32/WIN32K/DIB/DIB16GEN.C File size is 527182 bytes, cluster chain length is > 528384 bytes. Truncating file to 527182 bytes. /REACTOS/subsystems/WIN32/WIN32K/DIB/DIB32GEN.C File size is 254584 bytes, cluster chain length is > 258048 bytes. Truncating file to 254584 bytes. /REACTOS/INCLUDE/DDRAW.H File size is 155097 bytes, cluster chain length is > 155648 bytes. Truncating file to 155097 bytes. /REACTOS/INCLUDE/STRMIF.H File size is 271851 bytes, cluster chain length is > 274432 bytes. Truncating file to 271851 bytes. /REACTOS/INCLUDE/WINUSER.H File size is 137624 bytes, cluster chain length is > 139264 bytes. Truncating file to 137624 bytes. /REACTOS/INCLUDE/.svn Has a large number of bad entries. (37/61) Drop directory ? (y/n) some more /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/.svn/PROPS/ormation.s f Start cluster beyond limit (1952542496 > 1046186). Truncating file. /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/.svn/PROPS/ormation.s f File size is 1634887024 bytes, cluster chain length is 0 bytes. Truncating file to 0 bytes. /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/.svn/PROPS/FSCK0004.REN Start cluster beyond limit (1882144357 > 1046186). Truncating file. /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/.svn/PROPS/FSCK0004.REN File size is 1751347823 bytes, cluster chain length is 0 bytes. Truncating file to 0 bytes. /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/.svn/PROPS/FSCK0005.REN Start cluster beyond limit (1953394021 > 1046186). Truncating file. /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/.svn/PROPS/FSCK0005.REN File size is 544830063 bytes, cluster chain length is 0 bytes. Truncating file to 0 bytes. /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/.svn/PROPS/--noout.tes Directory has non-zero size. Fixing it. /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/.svn/PROPS/--noout.tes Start cluster beyond limit (1852991008 > 1046186). Truncating file. /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/.svn/PROPS/d to loa.d e Directory has non-zero size. Fixing it. /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/.svn/PROPS/d to loa.d e Start cluster beyond limit (1953395746 > 1046186). Truncating file. /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/WIN32/WINCE/LIBXML2.VCP File size is 150203 bytes, cluster chain length is > 151552 bytes. Truncating file to 150203 bytes. /REACTOS/LIB/3RDPARTY/LIBXML2/WIN32/WINCE/.svn/text-base/libxml2.vcp.svn-base File size is 144930 bytes, cluster chain length is > 147456 bytes. Truncating file to 144930 bytes. /REACTOS/NTOSKRNL/BUGCODES.RC File size is 12664 bytes, cluster chain length is > 16384 bytes. Truncating file to 12664 bytes. /REACTOS/NTOSKRNL/INCLUDE/INTERNAL/NAPI.H File size is 13786 bytes, cluster chain length is > 16384 bytes. Truncating file to 13786 bytes. /REACTOS/NTOSKRNL/MM/SECTION.C File size is 145682 bytes, cluster chain length is > 147456 bytes. Truncating file to 145682 bytes. /REACTOS/NTOSKRNL/MM/.svn/text-base/section.c.svn-base File size is 140762 bytes, cluster chain length is > 143360 bytes. Truncating file to 140762 bytes. /REACTOS/NTOSKRNL/EX/ZW.S File size is 42498 bytes, cluster chain length is > 45056 bytes. Truncating file to 42498 bytes. /REACTOS/DLL/DIRECTX/DPLAYX/DPLAY.C File size is 175774 bytes, cluster chain length is > 176128 bytes. Truncating file to 175774 bytes. /REACTOS/DLL/DIRECTX/DPLAYX/.svn/text-base/dplay.c.svn-base File size is 170323 bytes, cluster chain length is > 172032 bytes. Truncating file to 170323 bytes. WD -- ReactOS is a hub, follow the spokes and you'll immediately find absolutely everything you need to know about Windows. ReactOS is not just software, it's people. kjk_hyperion

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Re: [Freedce-devel] pthread_clear_exit_np()
by Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 26 Apr '06

26 Apr '06

christoph, christoph, why are you trying to insult someone who is looking to further the long-term aims and goals of free software, by putting people in touch on perceived unrelated projects and explaining to them the relevance? you have a specific area of expertise (according to your 2005 ukuug bio) - kernel development. i would welcome an opportunity for you to explain why my life, which happens to be quite poignantly sad and unfulfilling in many ways, has any relevance to the discussion at hand - and, also, if you could possibly elaborate on why i am "beeeing an asshole" likewise has any relevance. also: i would strongly advise you to consider objectively what i am trying to do - and forget what you do not know about me [you know nothing about me]. forget that i am involved in this discussion, because it is clearly affecting your (and evidently other people's) objective judgement. freedce is an important and under-recognised project that can save literally man-decades of development time currently being wasted by key free software projects, and lack of recognition for it is also stopping several interoperability projects from even _happening_. you want to know how many incompatible free software implementations there are of MSRPC around? i count FOUR, all written in c. EACH of those projects has had at least two full-time members working on them for AT LEAST three years, and each of those projects will require those full-time members to continue working on those incompatible and fundamentally non-interoperable development environments for another three to five years, to make them useful - as development environments, rather than to "fill one project's needs". [whereas, if one of the fat cat free software "supporting" companies would actually get off their backsides and fund freedce, it would save everybody several decades worth of money] you see - until such time as those non-interoperable MSRPC projects are completed, microsoft still dominates the market. MSRPC is the key infrastructure which binds everything together in the microsoft world: it's what the European Union is trying to get out of microsoft in the anti-trust case: information on how they use MSRPC; how they do their authentication; the IDL files; specifications on the nt domain services; etc. etc. you indicated in an earlier email that (please correct me if my impressions are wrong) that freedce is archaic and therefore irrelevant. nothing could be further from the truth, and your distaste for freedce is very short-sighted. mark, from ibm: you should be advocating to ibm's free software departments to back freedce and to KEEP the employees who worked on DCE 3.0 and move them to freedce and MSRPC interoperability. get some of that multi-hundred-million-dollar free software advertising budget and put a fractional percentage of it behind freedce. you don't have to _like_ freedce. you don't have to like its history. you don't have to like that it is me that is advocating its use. but don't you _dare_ insult me and think it doesn't have any effect. so. i look forward to receiving an apology from you - not for my benefit, but because it will mean that you are willing to demonstrate to the hundreds of people to whom your message has been distributed, and to the thousands of people who will encounter it in the future, that you can be trusted to make objective and important decisions. and that you don't deliberately go out of your way to belittle and bully other people. if you are unable to apologise, then you demonstrate, to me and to others, that you do not deserve any position of responsibility. am i making myself clear? l. On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 07:22:16PM +0200, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > luke, please get a life and stop beeing an asshole, thanks. > -- -- lkcl.net - mad free software computer person, visionary and poet. --

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