Ros-dev

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5789 discussions

Re: [ros-dev] Re: New OS built on ReactOS and WinuxOS technology!

by Quandary

On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 11:11:54AM -0400, Michael B. Trausch wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: RIPEMD160 > > Quandary wrote: > > > > I call BS. The Lotus 1-2-3 fiasco and the Apple vs. > > MS suit are the two things that come immediately to > > mind as legal precedence. You can't copyright a > > "layout" (read: look and feel, menu structure, > > screen order, etc.). If you are referring to > > directory layout on the disk itself, I think you > > will have a VERY hard time trying to argue that > > it's copyrightable -- since layout is effectively > > the command-line look-and-feel for a given disk. > > You don't have to look far for proof on that, > > either; moving between various *ix distros, it's > > easy to get lost when one distro stores its files > > in a different place from where you're expecting. > > > There was no direct layout issues there. Yes, you are correct. My argument is that layout is a subset of look and feel. Because menu structuring *is* included in the l&f deal, and file hierarchies are analagous to menu hierarchies, I argue that the ruling applies. > If you'd like to see an example such as what I've > described, you may take a look at OpenBSD's use of > this: > > http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq3.html#ISO > > This is something that the OpenBSD people > (specifically, Theo de Raadt) have held for years to > help use the law to provide a means of securing > their distribution and making it official. Has it held up in court? Thousands of bad patents are filed every year, and if/when they go to court for enforcement, they are discarded. That's patent law, but the same concept holds for -everything-: just because you -say- something is valid under the law does not make it so. > It is protected by Copyright because it is subject > to Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 102, Paragraph (a): > > (a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance > with this title, in original works of authorship > fixed in any tangible medium of expression, > now known or later developed, from which they can be > perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, > either directly or with the aid of a machine or > device. (b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work. I can copyright the following: My filesystem layout. Copyright 2005, me. All rights reserved. /boot/ /dev/hda /dev/hda1 /dev/hda2 /dev/hdb /dev/hdb1 /etc/rc No one is allowed to copy that text, but anyone is allowed to implement the idea behind it -- i.e., a heirarchal filesystem with the specified directories and files. Well, directories and filenames are just lists of strings like that on the disk, right? Thus, are they not subject to copyright like my above example? Well, using mkdir and touch (well, mknod ;), I can come up with exactly that file layout, and dump the exact same text (sans the copyright crap) using find or ls. So... is it really the filesystem layout that's copyrighted? No, it can't be, because I just demonstrated how it could be duplicated by using the implied procedure that was very clearly described by the file listing. It is (as you put later), if anything, that instance of the filesystem that he created which is copyrighted. > The file-system layout of the ISO image that the > OpenBSD project has is not a "look and feel" of > anything, It is when I'm in a bash session, ls-ing and trying to find my way around. Note that the lotus 1-2-3 issue was about navigation -- key bindings. Having the same file format layout is equivalent to having the same key bindings or navigation. > it is a particular layout of a filesystem image. > Saying that they cannot copyright an image of a > filesystem is like saying that you cannot copyright > an image taken with a [digital] > camera: You cannot copyright the concept of ISO or > JPG, for example, but you can copyright one > particular incarnation of an ISO or JPG, in a > particular pattern of bits, as a compliation. Actually, this is an excellent example as to why copyright both doesn't really work and is a bit silly in the digital age: You're claiming copyright to a big number. If I went to court and said, "I own 42 when it's interpreted like so..." I'd be laughed out. Even really important numbers (like mersenne primes, that take a -lot- of work to find) can't be copyrighted. We're drawing a line, therefore, that is totally arbitrary. But I digress... Making a digital copy of his ISO *might* be copyright infringement (though I still doubt it). However, even in the case that it is, I can make a layout that exactly duplicates his (with mkdir & mv), make an ISO that is completely identical, and NOT be infringing his copyright by distributing it (according to my prior arguments). > Walnut Creek and other CD-compilations have done this > for years. The CD Compilation gets the copyright, > not the general system. I am not too familiar with Walnut Creek (I just googled for it), but in a nutshell (groan), it sounds like they trawl mailing lists, etc., put them on CD and sell them. Now, the reason this -isn't- legal is because they are making copies without the consent of the author. It's the offline equivalent to file sharing -- it's no more legal for me to go out and trawl the web for MP3's, put them on a disk and sell that as a compilation. The fact is, I'm making copies of music that I may or may not have the authorization to copy (depending on the license, which is really where the whole meat of this particular issue is). "Freely accessible archives" give the -person requesting access to the page- the right to download and view the contents; it does NOT give that end-user the right to turn around and redistribute it (UNLESS you download it, burn it, and sell it under your Fair Use Right of First Sale, repeating the process for each disk; this is a loophole). Caching proxies may also be illegal, but that's a can of worms I don't want to get into... Now, they may not have been taken to court, but that doesn't mean that it's legal, nor that a judge wouldn't find them guilty of copyright infringement. > > > > Again, I'm going to call BS. You don't get > > copyright on an aggregation of work. If I went and > > copied all the articles (and ONLY the articles) > > out of a newspaper that ran only syndicated > > stories, the real copyright owners would have to > > come after me -- the newspaper could not. The only > > way the paper could come after me is if I > > accidentally copied content that (1) one of their > > writers wrote as a "work for hire," and that the > > paper holds the copyright to, or (2) I > > inadvertently copied one of their trade/service > > marks, implying their endorsement of the copied > > content when no such endorsement exists. > > > > Copyright on an "aggregation of work," as you have > called it falls under Title 17, Chapter 1, Section > 103, Paragraphs (a) and (b): Subject matter of > copyright: Compilations and Derivative Works. See > text: > > (a) The subject matter of copyright as specified by > section 102 includes compilations and derivative > works, but protection for a work employing > preexisting material in which copyright subsists > does not extend to any part of the work in which > such material has been used unlawfully. > > (b) The copyright in a compilation or derivative > work extends *** EMPHASIS *** > only to the material contributed by the author of > such work, > as distinguished from the preexisting material > employed in the work, and does not imply any > exclusive right in the preexisting material. The > copyright in such work is independent of, and does > not affect or enlarge the scope, duration, > ownership, or subsistence of, any copyright > protection in the preexisting material. > Which means that my newspaper example is spot on. Since the look and feel of the paper cannot be copyrighted (ordering of articles, number of columns, etc.), and the articles are syndicated (i.e., the paper gets a license to publish them, and doesn't hold the copyright), the paper cannot come after me. Well, they possibly could under some circumstances (like if they edited an article), but this is again assuming that they have done *nothing but aggregate*. Translate articles to files, ordering of articles to ordering of files, and paper to BSD, and the metaphor is complete. > > > > I'm not a lawyer. If you can show me something in > > copyright law (and, to be clean, I'm talking US > > copyright law) that proves me wrong, I'll be happy > > to either adjust my argument or, if I'm outright > > wrong, eat my words. However, I have spent some > > quality time with title 17 (looking for > > loopholes), and I'm pretty confident that I'm on- > > target. > > > > Nor am I an attorney; however, it is a matter which > I've conferred on in the past. The protections are > there in the most basic of Copyright Law, also > enforced internationally. If I understand correctly, what is enforced internationally is the Berne Convention, which I have not read up on. I also believe that trade agreements allowing for extradition are one of the other key tools that the US uses to enforce copyright abroad, though that statement's coming off the cuff and should be subject to verification ;). Excellent points; if you have any further refinements or counterclaims, again, feel free to make them. -- Travis __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/

19 years, 10 months

Uhci Driver Hacks

by James Tabor

Hi all, This is the latest hacks I have for now. I will be out for a week so have fun. hpoussin is a major help with the pnp code. I'm using it as a guide. Thanks to hpoussin for making the ioctl code work. You will see some of my hacks, just ignore them. hpoussin found a bug in setupapi. I think we do not have cfgmgr32.dll so our setupapi doesn't forward to it as it should. (drivers/usb/cromwell/uhci/create.c:30) UHCI: IRP_MJ_CREATE (drivers/usb/cromwell/uhci/create.c:41) UHCI: open HCDx successfull (drivers/usb/cromwell/uhci/devctrl.c:65) USB: IRP_MJ_DEVICE_CONTROL dispatch (drivers/usb/cromwell/uhci/devctrl.c:78) USB: IOCTL_GET_HCD_DRIVERKEY_NAME (ntoskrnl/io/pnpmgr.c:66) IoGetDeviceProperty(80c37000 1) (ntoskrnl/io/pnpmgr.c:164) KeyNameBuffer: 8cf9abd8, value HardwareID (KERNEL32:lib/kernel32/mem/global.c:76) GlobalAlloc( 0x40, 0xAC ) (drivers/usb/cromwell/uhci/devctrl.c:65) USB: IRP_MJ_DEVICE_CONTROL dispatch (drivers/usb/cromwell/uhci/devctrl.c:78) USB: IOCTL_GET_HCD_DRIVERKEY_NAME (ntoskrnl/io/pnpmgr.c:66) IoGetDeviceProperty(80c37000 1) (ntoskrnl/io/pnpmgr.c:164) KeyNameBuffer: 8ce28808, value HardwareID (drivers/usb/cromwell/uhci/devctrl.c:98) USB: IOCTL_GET_HCD_DRIVERKEY_NAME retur ns 'PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3104&SUBSYS_73401462&REV_82' (KERNEL32:lib/kernel32/mem/global.c:76) GlobalAlloc( 0x40, 0x2D ) (lib/setupapi/cfgmgr.c:327:CM_Locate_DevNodeA) 0055fab0 00000000 0 Unhandled exception Address: 76670ff4 C:\ReactOS\system32\setupapi.dll CS:EIP 1b:76670b93 DS 23 ES 23 FS 3b GS 23 EAX: 00000000 EBX: 00000000 ECX: 00000000 EDX: 00000000 EBP: 0055fa5c ESI: 00000000 ESP: 0055fa64 EDI: 00000000 EFLAGS: 00000202 Frames: 76660000+10ff4 C:\ReactOS\system32\setupapi.dll 400000+3f73 C:\ReactOS\usbview.EXE 400000+1ddc C:\ReactOS\usbview.EXE 400000+1ba1 C:\ReactOS\usbview.EXE 400000+188e C:\ReactOS\usbview.EXE 400000+16d0 C:\ReactOS\usbview.EXE 77e50000+5196c C:\ReactOS\system32\USER32.dll 77e50000+51b38 C:\ReactOS\system32\USER32.dll 77e50000+3915f C:\ReactOS\system32\USER32.dll 77e50000+5196c C:\ReactOS\system32\USER32.dll 77e50000+5261a C:\ReactOS\system32\USER32.dll 77e50000+374df C:\ReactOS\system32\USER32.dll 77e50000+38c9f C:\ReactOS\system32\USER32.dll 77e50000+38dc5 C:\ReactOS\system32\USER32.dll 400000+14a7 C:\ReactOS\usbview.EXE 400000+1417 C:\ReactOS\usbview.EXE 400000+457f C:\ReactOS\usbview.EXE 7c800000+2eb83 C:\ReactOS\system32\KERNEL32.dll (subsys/win32k/ntuser/class.c:114) Failed to lookup class atom! (subsys/win32k/ntuser/class.c:114) Failed to lookup class atom! (subsys/win32k/ntuser/class.c:114) Failed to lookup class atom! (subsys/win32k/ntuser/class.c:114) Failed to lookup class atom! (subsys/win32k/ntuser/class.c:114) Failed to lookup class atom! (subsys/win32k/ntuser/class.c:114) Failed to lookup class atom! (drivers/usb/cromwell/uhci/uhci.c:479) UHCI: IRP_MJ_CLEANUP (drivers/usb/cromwell/uhci/close.c:30) UHCI: IRP_MJ_CLOSE Thanks, James ps hpoussin, go for it dont stop on my account! 8^D

19 years, 10 months

Re: [ros-dev] Re: New OS built on ReactOS and WinuxOS technology!

by Quandary

On Thu, Jun 09, 2005 at 08:20:24AM -0400, Michael B. Trausch wrote: <snip> > (Another aside: The Foundation can, at its > discretion, create an official "layout" for the > installer CD and then Copyright that layout, such > that nobody else can use it. While it's possible, > it can effectively "cramp" the software and > innovation surrounding it, and it's not advisable. > Others then must choose different "layouts" for > their installers of their derived works, and this > would require heavy modifications to installers and > the like to find files in new locations.) I call BS. The Lotus 1-2-3 fiasco and the Apple vs. MS suit are the two things that come immediately to mind as legal precedence. You can't copyright a "layout" (read: look and feel, menu structure, screen order, etc.). If you are referring to directory layout on the disk itself, I think you will have a VERY hard time trying to argue that it's copyrightable -- since layout is effectively the command-line look-and-feel for a given disk. You don't have to look far for proof on that, either; moving between various *ix distros, it's easy to get lost when one distro stores its files in a different place from where you're expecting. If you can show me legal precedence for your statements, I'll be happy to reconsider my stance. I assume if you're making these claims, you have something to back them up, and I'm interested in hearing what your support is. <snip> > A little bit about Copyright Law, now. A developer > holds copyright to the portions of the code that > (s)he contributed to the project, and that is all. > The group that is responsible for putting it > together, then owns the copyright on the layout, and > so forth. So, if releases are the Foundation's job, > then whether they claim their Copyright or not, it > is, in fact, their Copyright. If someone other then > the Foundation packages it for the ReactOS web site, > then *THEY* hold the Copyright, and they can > therefore claim that they are "the" Copyright holder > for the Official Distribution of the ReactOS > project. Again, I'm going to call BS. You don't get copyright on an aggregation of work. If I went and copied all the articles (and ONLY the articles) out of a newspaper that ran only syndicated stories, the real copyright owners would have to come after me -- the newspaper could not. The only way the paper could come after me is if I accidentally copied content that (1) one of their writers wrote as a "work for hire," and that the paper holds the copyright to, or (2) I inadvertently copied one of their trade/service marks, implying their endorsement of the copied content when no such endorsement exists. <snip> I'm not a lawyer. If you can show me something in copyright law (and, to be clean, I'm talking US copyright law) that proves me wrong, I'll be happy to either adjust my argument or, if I'm outright wrong, eat my words. However, I have spent some quality time with title 17 (looking for loopholes), and I'm pretty confident that I'm on-target. Cheers, -- Travis Legal precedence (1-2-3, Apple vs. MS): http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/6805/articles/int-prop/software-copyright.html Title 17 US Copyright Law http://www.copyright.gov/title17/ __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/mobile.html

19 years, 10 months

Trademark update and other stuff

by Steven Edwards

Hi All, We have now reached our goal of $500 to file the paperwork to register the Trademark name and logo of ReactOS in the state of South Carolina. The next step will be filing for the entire US which I have to go to another lawyer on. I expect to do the federal paperwork, it will cost us about the same but I don't know when that will happen so if you were just going to make a donation for the Trademark stuff you can hold off. If anyone in the user community would like to make donations to support general development causes let me know and I can start allocating funds for bounties. On another note I have opened up a bank account for the foundation so if you don't want to use paypal but you want to make a donation contact me and I can provide routing information. Thanks to everyone that has helped with this! Even if you are not able to write code, your donations, testing, translation, promotion and artwork for ReactOS help the project! -Steven __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

19 years, 10 months

Re: [ros-svn] [hbirr] 15821: - Changed the calculation of the base address of an image section.

by Alex Ionescu

hbirr(a)svn.reactos.com wrote: >- Changed the calculation of the base address of an image section. >- Removed some unnecessary members from section object. >- Changed the allocation of a section object back to paged pool. > > > >Updated files: >trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/include/internal/mm.h >trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/mm/section.c > >_______________________________________________ >Ros-svn mailing list >Ros-svn(a)reactos.com >http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-svn > > > Thanks Hartmut. If you're up for it, here are the public NT structures used...maybe it won't be a bad idea if we use them if it's not too much code change: lkd> dt _SECTION_OBJECT -b +0x000 StartingVa : Ptr32 +0x004 EndingVa : Ptr32 +0x008 Parent : Ptr32 +0x00c LeftChild : Ptr32 +0x010 RightChild : Ptr32 +0x014 Segment : Ptr32 lkd> dt _SEGMENT_OBJECT +0x000 BaseAddress : Ptr32 Void +0x004 TotalNumberOfPtes : Uint4B +0x008 SizeOfSegment : _LARGE_INTEGER +0x010 NonExtendedPtes : Uint4B +0x014 ImageCommitment : Uint4B +0x018 ControlArea : Ptr32 _CONTROL_AREA +0x01c Subsection : Ptr32 _SUBSECTION +0x020 LargeControlArea : Ptr32 _LARGE_CONTROL_AREA +0x024 MmSectionFlags : Ptr32 _MMSECTION_FLAGS +0x028 MmSubSectionFlags : Ptr32 _MMSUBSECTION_FLAGS lkd> DT _CONTROL_AREA +0x000 Segment : Ptr32 _SEGMENT +0x004 DereferenceList : _LIST_ENTRY +0x00c NumberOfSectionReferences : Uint4B +0x010 NumberOfPfnReferences : Uint4B +0x014 NumberOfMappedViews : Uint4B +0x018 NumberOfSubsections : Uint2B +0x01a FlushInProgressCount : Uint2B +0x01c NumberOfUserReferences : Uint4B +0x020 u : __unnamed +0x024 FilePointer : Ptr32 _FILE_OBJECT +0x028 WaitingForDeletion : Ptr32 _EVENT_COUNTER +0x02c ModifiedWriteCount : Uint2B +0x02e NumberOfSystemCacheViews : Uint2B lkd> dt _SEGMENT +0x000 ControlArea : Ptr32 _CONTROL_AREA +0x004 TotalNumberOfPtes : Uint4B +0x008 NonExtendedPtes : Uint4B +0x00c WritableUserReferences : Uint4B +0x010 SizeOfSegment : Uint8B +0x018 SegmentPteTemplate : _MMPTE +0x01c NumberOfCommittedPages : Uint4B +0x020 ExtendInfo : Ptr32 _MMEXTEND_INFO +0x024 SystemImageBase : Ptr32 Void +0x028 BasedAddress : Ptr32 Void +0x02c u1 : __unnamed +0x030 u2 : __unnamed +0x034 PrototypePte : Ptr32 _MMPTE +0x038 ThePtes : [1] _MMPTE lkd> dt _SUBSECTION +0x000 ControlArea : Ptr32 _CONTROL_AREA +0x004 u : __unnamed +0x008 StartingSector : Uint4B +0x00c NumberOfFullSectors : Uint4B +0x010 SubsectionBase : Ptr32 _MMPTE +0x014 UnusedPtes : Uint4B +0x018 PtesInSubsection : Uint4B +0x01c NextSubsection : Ptr32 _SUBSECTION I think it's important because many of the Section implementation details are documented in books (including driver-related books) and known to driver developers who might be using the structures in their code... I can name NT Insider, Windows Internals 4th Edition and Windows NT File System Internals as some examples...but anyways it's just an idea. There's even a nice diagram in one of the books: As a sidenote, do we have a PFN Database? It seems so much of our Mm is messy and old code that was written in a hurry to get ReactOS to work. I dislike the abusive use of macros and the difficult to understand code (imo). Best regards, Alex Ionescu

19 years, 10 months

Re: [ros-svn] [hbirr] 15836: Changed back to the GPL.

by Alex Ionescu

hbirr(a)svn.reactos.com wrote: >Changed back to the GPL. > > > >Updated files: >trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/include/internal/mm.h >trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/mm/anonmem.c >trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/mm/marea.c >trunk/reactos/ntoskrnl/mm/section.c > >_______________________________________________ >Ros-svn mailing list >Ros-svn(a)reactos.com >http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-svn > > > Hi Hartmut, I had someone spend a week to update all our comment module headers and make them the same and remove the old copyright headers. It was decided that there would be one COPYING file in the root which is referred to by the header, and that all the kernel files will follow the format which is already in the files. Please don't start messing up the headers... if you want to update the license/add one, the proper place is the COPYING directory. Or else you're just undoing all the work that was done to standardize the headers. Best regards, Alex Ionescu

19 years, 10 months

[Fwd: Re: [ros-dev] ReactOS Large Disk support]

by James Tabor

From: David Eckert <davy2002a(a)gmail.com> I use IDE Controllers ======== Standard floppy disk controller Intel(r) 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller Primary IDE Channel [Controller] Secondary IDE Channel [Controller] Drives ==== QUANTUM FIREBALLlct08 06 [Hard drive] (6.45 GB) -- drive 0, s/n 392974120588, rev A05.0X00, SMART Status: Healthy There was another drive installed but it stopped registering for some reason (will fix this soon) and it is a 3.2gb drive. On 6/6/05, James Tabor > David Eckert wrote: > > I have 2 harddrives hooked up but when I boot ReactOS on Live CD, > > nothing works, only when i disconnect them does it boot properly... > > > > On 6/6/05, James Tabor > > <jimtabor(a)adsl-64-217-116-74.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net> wrote: > > > >>David Eckert wrote: > >> > >>>I think the lack of large disk support is a real problem here, people > >>>who download and burn the Live CD for example, MUST disconnect there > >>>large hard drives (2GB or higher), I would STRONGLY urge the > >>>development of large disk support to fix this problem, plus it would > >>>also get to the issue of actually installing on new machines which > >>>have no smaller hard drives on them. > >>> > >>>Best regards, > >>> > >>>David W. Eckert > >>> > >> > >>Please need more info. I tested Ros with 120G, it did not have a problem. > >>Even the ultra test, build Ros on Ros with a 120G. > >>James > >> > > > > > > > > -- -David W. Eckert

19 years, 10 months

Re: [ros-dev] Re: [ros-svn] [hbirr] 15836: Changed back to the GPL.

by Quandary

On Wed, Jun 08, 2005 at 06:50:18PM +0200, Hartmut Birr wrote: > Alex Ionescu wrote: > > > False... referring to the COPYING file is enough. > > > I think, we should change the header a little bit: > > /* > * COPYRIGHT: ReactOS Team > * LICENSE: GPL, see LICENCE in the top level > directory > * PROJECT: ReactOS kernel > * FILE: ntoskrnl/ke/apc.c > * PURPOSE: NT Implementation of APCs > * > * PROGRAMMERS: Alex Ionescu (alex(a)relsoft.net) > * Phillip Susi > * ... > */ > > because copyright and license are different things. > Lawyers do like it to find such things. You're missing the first year of publication. __________________________________ Discover Yahoo! Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html

19 years, 10 months

feature request for the new build system

by Hartmut Birr

Hi, it seems that it doesn't exist a dependency check for precompiled headers. - Hartmut

19 years, 10 months

Freeldr install

by David Kredba

Hello all. Am I wrong if I think, that install.exe form freeldr is not build with new build system ? Thanks, David

19 years, 10 months

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