Opening up #reactos-dev to the public

[Colin Finck]

Hi all!

As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.

This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.

Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
exclusive club?

Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
#reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
it's fully in their hands.


Cheers,

Colin

[David Quintana (gigaherz)]

I approve the idea.

On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck <colin(a)reactos.org> wrote:

>   Hi all!
>
>  As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
>  channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
>  talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
>  topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
>  notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
>
>  This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
>  interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
>  questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
>  maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
>  have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
>
>  Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
>  submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
>  How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
>  exclusive club?
>
>  Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
>  #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
>  Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
>  too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
>  else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
>  it's fully in their hands.
>
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Colin
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Jared Smudde]

I'm somewhat on the fence about this. The only real issue I could see is people coming
on when the devs are gone for the night. For example, from about 7PM to 2AM (my time),
there hardly any devs around. That leaves the question what we should do if someone is not
following the new rules and needs to be kicked if no ops are around. Just my 2 cents.
Other than that, go for it. [😊]


Jared

________________________________
From: Ros-dev <ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org> on behalf of David Quintana (gigaherz)
<gigaherz(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 5:34 AM
To: ReactOS Development List
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public

I approve the idea.

On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck
<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hi all!

As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.

This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.

Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
exclusive club?

Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
#reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
it's fully in their hands.


Cheers,

Colin

_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO]

I don’t approve the idea. The fact is that if the devs quit originally #reactos, it’s
because it was generally too noisy, etc… . If we remove the moderation irc bit in
#reactos-dev, you may expect the same phenomenon to occur in #reactos-dev too.

 

De : Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]] De la part de David Quintana (gigaherz)
Envoyé : vendredi 24 mars 2017 11:35
À : ReactOS Development List
Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public

 

I approve the idea.

 

On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck <colin(a)reactos.org> wrote:

Hi all!

As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.

This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.

Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
exclusive club?

Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
#reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
it's fully in their hands.


Cheers,

Colin

_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Magnus Johnsson]

Then again, just saying here, is that there is such a thing as 'Premature
optimization'. This is a change that is literally one command to roll back
:). Just tell the dev's that its an experiment for a while and to submit
feedback if they see anything wonky. Communication is a good thing.

2017-03-24 16:13 GMT+01:00 Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO <hermes.belusca(a)sfr.fr>fr>:

>   I don’t approve the idea. The fact is that if the devs
> quit originally
>  #reactos, it’s because it was generally too noisy, etc… . If we remove the
>  moderation irc bit in #reactos-dev, you may expect the same phenomenon to
>  occur in #reactos-dev too.
>
>
>
>  *De :* Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]] *De la part de* David
>  Quintana (gigaherz)
>  *Envoyé :* vendredi 24 mars 2017 11:35
>  *À :* ReactOS Development List
>  *Objet :* Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
>
>
>
>  I approve the idea.
>
>
>
>  On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck <colin(a)reactos.org> wrote:
>
>  Hi all!
>
>  As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
>  channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
>  talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
>  topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
>  notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
>
>  This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
>  interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
>  questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
>  maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
>  have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
>
>  Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
>  submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
>  How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
>  exclusive club?
>
>  Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
>  #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
>  Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
>  too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
>  else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
>  it's fully in their hands.
>
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Colin
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

[David Quintana (gigaherz)]

I disagree -- if we can be firm about the channel being only for
development talk, things should remain mostly as they are now.

In any community, there's inevitably going to be idle talk, offtopic
conversations, etc. If you only have ONE place to talk in, all those thigns
are going to be mixed in with actual dev talk, but if you have clear rooms
set for each thing, the majority of people will be happy to leave all the
offtopic talk to the main channel, and dev talk to the dev channel.

It works for plenty other projects and communities so there's no reason to
be pessimistic and think that "our idiots are worse". It's simply not true.

I vote for trying, and we can always put back the +m if things get out of
hand.

On 24 March 2017 at 16:13, Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO <hermes.belusca(a)sfr.fr>
wrote:

>   I don’t approve the idea. The fact is that if the devs
> quit originally
>  #reactos, it’s because it was generally too noisy, etc… . If we remove the
>  moderation irc bit in #reactos-dev, you may expect the same phenomenon to
>  occur in #reactos-dev too.
>
>
>
>  *De :* Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]] *De la part de* David
>  Quintana (gigaherz)
>  *Envoyé :* vendredi 24 mars 2017 11:35
>  *À :* ReactOS Development List
>  *Objet :* Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
>
>
>
>  I approve the idea.
>
>
>
>  On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck <colin(a)reactos.org> wrote:
>
>  Hi all!
>
>  As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
>  channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
>  talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
>  topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
>  notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
>
>  This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
>  interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
>  questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
>  maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
>  have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
>
>  Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
>  submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
>  How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
>  exclusive club?
>
>  Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
>  #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
>  Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
>  too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
>  else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
>  it's fully in their hands.
>
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Colin
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

[Mark Jansen]

We can always try it out?
If it doesnt work, restoring it is a simple as setting a flag on the channel.

On 24 March 2017 at 16:31, David Quintana (gigaherz) <gigaherz(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>   I disagree -- if we can be firm about the channel
> being only for development
>  talk, things should remain mostly as they are now.
>
>  In any community, there's inevitably going to be idle talk, offtopic
>  conversations, etc. If you only have ONE place to talk in, all those thigns
>  are going to be mixed in with actual dev talk, but if you have clear rooms
>  set for each thing, the majority of people will be happy to leave all the
>  offtopic talk to the main channel, and dev talk to the dev channel.
>
>  It works for plenty other projects and communities so there's no reason to
>  be pessimistic and think that "our idiots are worse". It's simply not
> true.
>
>  I vote for trying, and we can always put back the +m if things get out of
>  hand.
>
>  On 24 March 2017 at 16:13, Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO <hermes.belusca(a)sfr.fr>
>  wrote:
> >  
> >  I don’t approve the idea. The fact is that if the devs quit originally
> >  #reactos, it’s because it was generally too noisy, etc… . If we remove the
> >  moderation irc bit in #reactos-dev, you may expect the same phenomenon to
> >  occur in #reactos-dev too.
> >
> >
> >
> >  De : Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]] De la part de David
> >  Quintana (gigaherz)
> >  Envoyé : vendredi 24 mars 2017 11:35
> >  À : ReactOS Development List
> >  Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
> >
> >
> >
> >  I approve the idea.
> >
> >
> >
> >  On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck <colin(a)reactos.org> wrote:
> >
> >  Hi all!
> >
> >  As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
> >  channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
> >  talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
> >  topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
> >  notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
> >
> >  This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
> >  interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
> >  questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
> >  maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
> >  have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
> >
> >  Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
> >  submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
> >  How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
> >  exclusive club?
> >
> >  Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
> >  #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
> >  Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
> >  too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
> >  else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
> >  it's fully in their hands.
> >
> >
> >  Cheers,
> >
> >  Colin
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Ros-dev mailing list
> >  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> >  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Ros-dev mailing list
> >  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> >  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev 
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Ged Murphy]

Agreed.

If the restriction is removed, I would be much less inclined to join the channel.

I stopped joining #reactos for a reason…

Ged.

 

From: Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO
Sent: 24 March 2017 15:13
To: 'ReactOS Development List' <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public

 

I don’t approve the idea. The fact is that if the devs quit originally #reactos, it’s
because it was generally too noisy, etc… . If we remove the moderation irc bit in
#reactos-dev, you may expect the same phenomenon to occur in #reactos-dev too.

 

De : Ros-dev [ <mailto:[e-mail]>
mailto:[e-mail]] De la part de David Quintana (gigaherz)
Envoyé : vendredi 24 mars 2017 11:35
À : ReactOS Development List
Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public

 

I approve the idea.

 

On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck < <mailto:[e-mail]>
colin(a)reactos.org&gt; wrote:

Hi all!

As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.

This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.

Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
exclusive club?

Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
#reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
it's fully in their hands.


Cheers,

Colin

_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
 <mailto:[e-mail]> Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
 <http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev>
http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Aleksey Bragin]

Same for me. The idea for #reactos and #reactos-dev to exist was the 
fact that one is for public audience, and the second one is for internal 
communication between developers.

If #reactos-dev is opened to the public, then why not delete it at all 
and move to #reactos?

I rather support Alex's proposal of creating something like 
#reactos-gsoc or just autovoicing students, it's not a big deal.

Regards,
Aleksey Bragin

On 27.03.2017 11:31, Ged Murphy wrote:
>  
>  Agreed.
>
>  If the restriction is removed, I would be much less inclined to join 
>  the channel.
>
>  I stopped joining #reactos for a reason…
>
>  Ged.
>
>  *From:*Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]] *On Behalf Of 
>  *Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO
>  *Sent:* 24 March 2017 15:13
>  *To:* 'ReactOS Development List' <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
>  *Subject:* Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
>
>  I don’t approve the idea. The fact is that if the devs quit originally 
>  #reactos, it’s because it was generally too noisy, etc… . If we remove 
>  the moderation irc bit in #reactos-dev, you may expect the same 
>  phenomenon to occur in #reactos-dev too.
>
>  *De :*Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]] *De la part de* 
>  David Quintana (gigaherz)
>  *Envoyé :* vendredi 24 mars 2017 11:35
>  *À :* ReactOS Development List
>  *Objet :* Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
>
>  I approve the idea.
>
>  On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck <colin(a)reactos.org 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>
>  Hi all!
>
>  As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
>  channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
>  talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
>  topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
>  notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
>
>  This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
>  interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
>  questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
>  maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
>  have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
>
>  Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
>  submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
>  How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
>  exclusive club?
>
>  Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
>  #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
>  Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
>  too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
>  else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
>  it's fully in their hands.
>
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Colin
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

[Pranay Pratyush]

Hi there, are any devs here with whom I can discuss the audio architecture
of ReactOS in order to know its current state as compared to Windows?


--
*Pranay Pratyush,*
3rd year undergraduate ,
Computer Science and Engineering Department
Indian Institute Of Technology, Kharagpur
--

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Aleksey Bragin <aleksey(a)reactos.org> wrote:

>   Same for me. The idea for #reactos and #reactos-dev to
> exist was the fact
>  that one is for public audience, and the second one is for internal
>  communication between developers.
>
>  If #reactos-dev is opened to the public, then why not delete it at all and
>  move to #reactos?
>
>  I rather support Alex's proposal of creating something like #reactos-gsoc
>  or just autovoicing students, it's not a big deal.
>
>  Regards,
>  Aleksey Bragin
>
>
>  On 27.03.2017 11:31, Ged Murphy wrote:
>
>  Agreed.
>
>  If the restriction is removed, I would be much less inclined to join the
>  channel.
>
>  I stopped joining #reactos for a reason…
>
>  Ged.
>
>
>
>  *From:* Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]
>  <ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org>] *On Behalf Of *Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO
>  *Sent:* 24 March 2017 15:13
>  *To:* 'ReactOS Development List' <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
>  <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
>  *Subject:* Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
>
>
>
>  I don’t approve the idea. The fact is that if the devs quit originally
>  #reactos, it’s because it was generally too noisy, etc… . If we remove the
>  moderation irc bit in #reactos-dev, you may expect the same phenomenon to
>  occur in #reactos-dev too.
>
>
>
>  *De :* Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]
>  <ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org>] *De la part de* David Quintana (gigaherz)
>  *Envoyé :* vendredi 24 mars 2017 11:35
>  *À :* ReactOS Development List
>  *Objet :* Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
>
>
>
>  I approve the idea.
>
>
>
>  On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck <colin(a)reactos.org> wrote:
>
>  Hi all!
>
>  As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
>  channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
>  talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
>  topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
>  notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
>
>  This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
>  interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
>  questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
>  maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
>  have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
>
>  Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
>  submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
>  How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
>  exclusive club?
>
>  Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
>  #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
>  Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
>  too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
>  else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
>  it's fully in their hands.
>
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Colin
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

[Ged Murphy]

Hi,

 

Our audio developer is Johannes Anderwald, but unfortunately he’s been away from the
project for a little while now. Unless anyone other devs feel they can step into this
role, it’s unlikely we’d be able to find a mentor for this particular project.

 

Is audio the only area that you’re interested in, or are there other areas which you feel
you’d like to work on? With an entire operating system at your disposal, there’s plenty of
other options to explore.

 

Ged.

 

From: Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Pranay Pratyush
Sent: 28 March 2017 06:39
To: ReactOS Development List <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public

 

Hi there, are any devs here with whom I can discuss the audio architecture of ReactOS in
order to know its current state as compared to Windows?




 

--

Pranay Pratyush,

3rd year undergraduate ,

Computer Science and Engineering Department

Indian Institute Of Technology, Kharagpur

--

 

On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Aleksey Bragin <aleksey(a)reactos.org
<mailto:[e-mail]> > wrote:

Same for me. The idea for #reactos and #reactos-dev to exist was the fact that one is for
public audience, and the second one is for internal communication between developers.

If #reactos-dev is opened to the public, then why not delete it at all and move to
#reactos?

I rather support Alex's proposal of creating something like #reactos-gsoc or just
autovoicing students, it's not a big deal.

Regards,
Aleksey Bragin



On 27.03.2017 11:31, Ged Murphy wrote:

Agreed.

If the restriction is removed, I would be much less inclined to join the channel.

I stopped joining #reactos for a reason…

Ged.

 

From: Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO
Sent: 24 March 2017 15:13
To: 'ReactOS Development List'  <mailto:[e-mail]>
&lt;ros-dev(a)reactos.org&gt;
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public

 

I don’t approve the idea. The fact is that if the devs quit originally #reactos, it’s
because it was generally too noisy, etc… . If we remove the moderation irc bit in
#reactos-dev, you may expect the same phenomenon to occur in #reactos-dev too.

 

De : Ros-dev [ <mailto:[e-mail]>
mailto:[e-mail]] De la part de David Quintana (gigaherz)
Envoyé : vendredi 24 mars 2017 11:35
À : ReactOS Development List
Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public

 

I approve the idea.

 

On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck < <mailto:[e-mail]>
colin(a)reactos.org&gt; wrote:

Hi all!

As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.

This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.

Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
exclusive club?

Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
#reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
it's fully in their hands.


Cheers,

Colin

_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
 <mailto:[e-mail]> Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
 <http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev>
http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

 


_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
Ros-dev(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]> 
http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Pranay Pratyush]

@Ged. I already made up my mind on this project. Choosing another one now
would take a considerable amount of time for me as I would have to go
through enough code to be able to create a proposal. Please try and get me
a mentor for this. BTW this idea is on official 2017 idea page for ReactOS
and I also emailed here on the first day of proposal posting period. It
would have been much easier for me if someone informed me of the situation
then.


--
*Pranay Pratyush,*
3rd year undergraduate ,
Computer Science and Engineering Department
Indian Institute Of Technology, Kharagpur
--

On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Ged Murphy <gedmurphy.maillists(a)gmail.com>
wrote:

>   Hi,
>
>
>
>  Our audio developer is Johannes Anderwald, but unfortunately he’s been
>  away from the project for a little while now. Unless anyone other devs feel
>  they can step into this role, it’s unlikely we’d be able to find a mentor
>  for this particular project.
>
>
>
>  Is audio the only area that you’re interested in, or are there other areas
>  which you feel you’d like to work on? With an entire operating system at
>  your disposal, there’s plenty of other options to explore.
>
>
>
>  Ged.
>
>
>
>  *From:* Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]] *On Behalf Of *Pranay
>  Pratyush
>  *Sent:* 28 March 2017 06:39
>
>  *To:* ReactOS Development List <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
>  *Subject:* Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
>
>
>
>  Hi there, are any devs here with whom I can discuss the audio architecture
>  of ReactOS in order to know its current state as compared to Windows?
>
>
>
>
>  --
>
>  *Pranay Pratyush,*
>
>  3rd year undergraduate ,
>
>  Computer Science and Engineering Department
>
>  Indian Institute Of Technology, Kharagpur
>
>  --
>
>
>
>  On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Aleksey Bragin <aleksey(a)reactos.org>
>  wrote:
>
>  Same for me. The idea for #reactos and #reactos-dev to exist was the fact
>  that one is for public audience, and the second one is for internal
>  communication between developers.
>
>  If #reactos-dev is opened to the public, then why not delete it at all and
>  move to #reactos?
>
>  I rather support Alex's proposal of creating something like #reactos-gsoc
>  or just autovoicing students, it's not a big deal.
>
>  Regards,
>  Aleksey Bragin
>
>
>
>  On 27.03.2017 11:31, Ged Murphy wrote:
>
>  Agreed.
>
>  If the restriction is removed, I would be much less inclined to join the
>  channel.
>
>  I stopped joining #reactos for a reason…
>
>  Ged.
>
>
>
>  *From:* Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]
>  <ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org>] *On Behalf Of *Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO
>  *Sent:* 24 March 2017 15:13
>  *To:* 'ReactOS Development List' <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
>  <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
>  *Subject:* Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
>
>
>
>  I don’t approve the idea. The fact is that if the devs quit originally
>  #reactos, it’s because it was generally too noisy, etc… . If we remove the
>  moderation irc bit in #reactos-dev, you may expect the same phenomenon to
>  occur in #reactos-dev too.
>
>
>
>  *De :* Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]
>  <ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org>] *De la part de* David Quintana (gigaherz)
>  *Envoyé :* vendredi 24 mars 2017 11:35
>  *À :* ReactOS Development List
>  *Objet :* Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
>
>
>
>  I approve the idea.
>
>
>
>  On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck <colin(a)reactos.org> wrote:
>
>  Hi all!
>
>  As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
>  channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
>  talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
>  topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
>  notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
>
>  This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
>  interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
>  questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
>  maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
>  have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
>
>  Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
>  submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
>  How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
>  exclusive club?
>
>  Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
>  #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
>  Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
>  too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
>  else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
>  it's fully in their hands.
>
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Colin
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

[James Tabor]

Should start another thread for Audio.


On Tue, Mar 28, 2017 at 12:38 AM, Pranay Pratyush <pranay.pratyush(a)gmail.com
>   wrote: 
> Hi there, are any devs here with whom I can discuss the audio architecture
> of ReactOS in order to know its current state as compared to Windows?
>
>
> --
> *Pranay Pratyush,*
> 3rd year undergraduate ,
> Computer Science and Engineering Department
> Indian Institute Of Technology, Kharagpur
> --
>
> On Mon, Mar 27, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Aleksey Bragin <aleksey(a)reactos.org>
>   wrote: 
>
>> Same for me. The idea for #reactos and #reactos-dev to exist was the fact
>> that one is for public audience, and the second one is for internal
>> communication between developers.
>>
>> If #reactos-dev is opened to the public, then why not delete it at all
>> and move to #reactos?
>>
>> I rather support Alex's proposal of creating something like #reactos-gsoc
>> or just autovoicing students, it's not a big deal.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Aleksey Bragin
>>
>>
>> On 27.03.2017 11:31, Ged Murphy wrote:
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> If the restriction is removed, I would be much less inclined to join the
>> channel.
>>
>> I stopped joining #reactos for a reason…
>>
>> Ged.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]
>> <ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org>] *On Behalf Of *Hermès BÉLUSCA-MAÏTO
>> *Sent:* 24 March 2017 15:13
>> *To:* 'ReactOS Development List' <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
>> <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t approve the idea. The fact is that if the devs quit originally
>> #reactos, it’s because it was generally too noisy, etc… . If we remove the
>> moderation irc bit in #reactos-dev, you may expect the same phenomenon to
>> occur in #reactos-dev too.
>>
>>
>>
>> *De :* Ros-dev [mailto:[e-mail]
>> <ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org>] *De la part de* David Quintana (gigaherz)
>> *Envoyé :* vendredi 24 mars 2017 11:35
>> *À :* ReactOS Development List
>> *Objet :* Re: [ros-dev] Opening up #reactos-dev to the public
>>
>>
>>
>> I approve the idea.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24 March 2017 at 11:21, Colin Finck <colin(a)reactos.org
>   wrote: 
>>
>> Hi all!
>>
>> As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
>> channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
>> talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
>> topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
>> notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
>>
>> This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
>> interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
>> questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
>> maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
>> have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
>>
>> Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
>> submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
>> How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
>> exclusive club?
>>
>> Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
>> #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
>> Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
>> too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
>> else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
>> it's fully in their hands.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Colin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ros-dev mailing list
>> Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ros-dev mailing list
>> Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ros-dev mailing list
> Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

Hello everybody,

I'm new to ReactOS for just a few days. I did not contribute to ReactOS 
yet. So, I don't feel qualified to discuss Colin's proposal, but maybe 
it'll help you giving you statements from another perspective.

Since there already exist so many answers, I just decided to answer 
Colin's proposal directly.


I think that your problem is not a technical one. What you need are 
people feeling responsible to newcomers.


A week ago, when I joined #reactos, I asked for some legal advice. 
Luckily, learn_more copied my question to #reactos-dev since I wouldn't 
have joined that chan on my own, because I'm not a developer yet. 
Unfortunately, my question has not been answered yet a couple of hours 
later, so I followed learn_more's hint to reask my question on the 
ReactOS devs mailing list. There, I got different answers leading me to 
the thought that nobody is quite sure about it. Afterwards, I supposed 
that someone could adapt the Wiki due to the clarification, but nobody 
cared, not even now.

There is also another newcomer, Pranay Pratyush, who asked for some 
newbie help, too, but nobody answered yet (at least not publicly). This 
also reinforced my impression that nobody feels responsible to new 
people. I bet, if you would welcome them, you could have more developers 
in a few weeks.


Instead of Colin's proposal, I suggest that you create a new IRC channel 
#reactos-dev-newbies (or something like that) and put in some of you who 
will greet newcomers and so on. This chan might be open for everyone. 
Once established, this should fulfill its purpose round the clock. Thus, 
it'll force you to have some of you being responsible to newcomers.


I hope that I could help.

Tobias


Am 24.03.2017 11:21 schrieb Colin Finck:
>   Hi all!
>  
>  As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
>  channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
>  talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
>  topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
>  notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
>  
>  This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way 
>  to
>  interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
>  questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
>  maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some 
>  contributors
>  have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
>  
>  Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students 
>  shall
>  submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
>  How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
>  exclusive club?
>  
>  Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
>  #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
>  Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
>  too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if 
>  nothing
>  else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
>  it's fully in their hands.
>  
>  
>  Cheers,
>  
>  Colin
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Daniel Reimer]

Hi,

yes there might be some problems with getting in touch to the right ppl 
on IRC and even worse on the forums. It's a problem we can hardly change 
because everyone lives somewhere else and has other circumstances in his 
life. So a 24:7 presence might become difficult. For such I recommend a 
mailing list for exactly that one case. Add it to website and we are 
set. SO... in theory your idea, but as mailing list ^^

P.S. Main reason why devs are not in the forums or #reactos are exactly 
what we saw here in mailing list as 100% perfect example. Drama, 
Kindergarten and ppl who have NO CLUE (who the F***K told you we can 
hire devs at ease??! I'd like to talk to that guy...) what they are 
talking about. Our devs are here to develop and not to play babysitter 
or being accused for having a real life and real work and real problems 
and thus are being accused to be lazy dipshits who don't even care about 
the project, any report by one special person or being reckless or 
WHATEVER you said we are. For handling all that we would need someone 
else.... with adamantium nerves! As you all know me, I would happily do 
that (maaaany toys for meee ^^), but that would end in a massacre for 
sure. With some b33r afterwards, but still a massacre.

I can only recommend one thing to that special persion I talk to right 
now. Yes, I appreciate your support, yes we all do, but stop dreaming 
and come back to reality (we have cookies). We talk about a freaking 
OPERATING SYSTEM based on a CLOSED ARCHITECTURE. This is no LibreOffice 
with way less closed stuff to understand and reimplement.

https://snag.gy/YZLkQh.jpg

Greetings
Daniel

Am 25.03.2017 um 23:07 schrieb tobias.k(a)posteo.de:
>   Hello everybody,
>
>  I'm new to ReactOS for just a few days. I did not contribute to 
>  ReactOS yet. So, I don't feel qualified to discuss Colin's proposal, 
>  but maybe it'll help you giving you statements from another perspective.
>
>  Since there already exist so many answers, I just decided to answer 
>  Colin's proposal directly.
>
>
>  I think that your problem is not a technical one. What you need are 
>  people feeling responsible to newcomers.
>
>
>  A week ago, when I joined #reactos, I asked for some legal advice. 
>  Luckily, learn_more copied my question to #reactos-dev since I 
>  wouldn't have joined that chan on my own, because I'm not a developer 
>  yet. Unfortunately, my question has not been answered yet a couple of 
>  hours later, so I followed learn_more's hint to reask my question on 
>  the ReactOS devs mailing list. There, I got different answers leading 
>  me to the thought that nobody is quite sure about it. Afterwards, I 
>  supposed that someone could adapt the Wiki due to the clarification, 
>  but nobody cared, not even now.
>
>  There is also another newcomer, Pranay Pratyush, who asked for some 
>  newbie help, too, but nobody answered yet (at least not publicly). 
>  This also reinforced my impression that nobody feels responsible to 
>  new people. I bet, if you would welcome them, you could have more 
>  developers in a few weeks.
>
>
>  Instead of Colin's proposal, I suggest that you create a new IRC 
>  channel #reactos-dev-newbies (or something like that) and put in some 
>  of you who will greet newcomers and so on. This chan might be open for 
>  everyone. Once established, this should fulfill its purpose round the 
>  clock. Thus, it'll force you to have some of you being responsible to 
>  newcomers.
>
>
>  I hope that I could help.
>
>  Tobias
>
>
>  Am 24.03.2017 11:21 schrieb Colin Finck:
> >   Hi all!
> >
> >  As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
> >  channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
> >  talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
> >  topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
> >  notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
> >
> >  This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
> >  interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
> >  questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
> >  maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
> >  have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
> >
> >  Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
> >  submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
> >  How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
> >  exclusive club?
> >
> >  Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
> >  #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
> >  Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
> >  too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
> >  else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
> >  it's fully in their hands.
> >
> >
> >  Cheers,
> >
> >  Colin
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Ros-dev mailing list
> >  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> >  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev 
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo]

EVERY FOSS developer should RULE the world.

I cannot help too much in developing, but i try to help as much as i can in
other ways. I`m not just a troll using what "others" have done using their
free time, and love.

And, as Daniel say, this is based in the most commonly used OS, which is
closed source, and from a giant (Microsoft). IMHO thats the main  reason
why the ReactOS team do not have organizations support and donations
(please correct me if i am wrong).

 ReactOS devs have my very respect, and should have YOURS!

On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Daniel Reimer <daniel.reimer(a)reactos.org>
wrote:

>   Hi,
>
>  yes there might be some problems with getting in touch to the right ppl on
>  IRC and even worse on the forums. It's a problem we can hardly change
>  because everyone lives somewhere else and has other circumstances in his
>  life. So a 24:7 presence might become difficult. For such I recommend a
>  mailing list for exactly that one case. Add it to website and we are set.
>  SO... in theory your idea, but as mailing list ^^
>
>  P.S. Main reason why devs are not in the forums or #reactos are exactly
>  what we saw here in mailing list as 100% perfect example. Drama,
>  Kindergarten and ppl who have NO CLUE (who the F***K told you we can hire
>  devs at ease??! I'd like to talk to that guy...) what they are talking
>  about. Our devs are here to develop and not to play babysitter or being
>  accused for having a real life and real work and real problems and thus are
>  being accused to be lazy dipshits who don't even care about the project,
>  any report by one special person or being reckless or WHATEVER you said we
>  are. For handling all that we would need someone else.... with adamantium
>  nerves! As you all know me, I would happily do that (maaaany toys for meee
>  ^^), but that would end in a massacre for sure. With some b33r afterwards,
>  but still a massacre.
>
>  I can only recommend one thing to that special persion I talk to right
>  now. Yes, I appreciate your support, yes we all do, but stop dreaming and
>  come back to reality (we have cookies). We talk about a freaking OPERATING
>  SYSTEM based on a CLOSED ARCHITECTURE. This is no LibreOffice with way less
>  closed stuff to understand and reimplement.
>
>  https://snag.gy/YZLkQh.jpg
>
>  Greetings
>  Daniel
>
>
>  Am 25.03.2017 um 23:07 schrieb tobias.k(a)posteo.de:
>
> >   Hello everybody,
> >
> >  I'm new to ReactOS for just a few days. I did not contribute to ReactOS
> >  yet. So, I don't feel qualified to discuss Colin's proposal, but maybe
> >  it'll help you giving you statements from another perspective.
> >
> >  Since there already exist so many answers, I just decided to answer
> >  Colin's proposal directly.
> >
> >
> >  I think that your problem is not a technical one. What you need are
> >  people feeling responsible to newcomers.
> >
> >
> >  A week ago, when I joined #reactos, I asked for some legal advice.
> >  Luckily, learn_more copied my question to #reactos-dev since I wouldn't
> >  have joined that chan on my own, because I'm not a developer yet.
> >  Unfortunately, my question has not been answered yet a couple of hours
> >  later, so I followed learn_more's hint to reask my question on the ReactOS
> >  devs mailing list. There, I got different answers leading me to the thought
> >  that nobody is quite sure about it. Afterwards, I supposed that someone
> >  could adapt the Wiki due to the clarification, but nobody cared, not even
> >  now.
> >
> >  There is also another newcomer, Pranay Pratyush, who asked for some
> >  newbie help, too, but nobody answered yet (at least not publicly). This
> >  also reinforced my impression that nobody feels responsible to new people.
> >  I bet, if you would welcome them, you could have more developers in a few
> >  weeks.
> >
> >
> >  Instead of Colin's proposal, I suggest that you create a new IRC channel
> >  #reactos-dev-newbies (or something like that) and put in some of you who
> >  will greet newcomers and so on. This chan might be open for everyone. Once
> >  established, this should fulfill its purpose round the clock. Thus, it'll
> >  force you to have some of you being responsible to newcomers.
> >
> >
> >  I hope that I could help.
> >
> >  Tobias
> >
> >
> >  Am 24.03.2017 11:21 schrieb Colin Finck:
> >
> > >   Hi all!
> > >
> > >  As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a moderated IRC
> > >  channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced people can
> > >  talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related there, no
> > >  topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that I see a
> > >  notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
> > >
> > >  This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly have a way to
> > >  interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
> > >  questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover, we don't
> > >  maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some contributors
> > >  have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
> > >
> > >  Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where students shall
> > >  submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
> > >  How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev continues to be an
> > >  exclusive club?
> > >
> > >  Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the moderation bit on
> > >  #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
> > >  Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as people get
> > >  too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and kicked if nothing
> > >  else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on #reactos-dev,
> > >  it's fully in their hands.
> > >
> > >
> > >  Cheers,
> > >
> > >  Colin
> > >
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  Ros-dev mailing list
> > >  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> > >  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> > >  
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Ros-dev mailing list
> >  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> >  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> >  
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

[tk]

For clarification, I didn't want to say that it has to be a developer
who could be responsible to newbies. Also, I didn't say that hiring
developers would be easy. So, I'm sorry if this was ambiguous!

And I can really imagine that coding a closed-source OS is difficult,
especially when done in the spare free time, so I have to bow. You all
did and do a great job!


Am 26.03.2017 um 14:06 schrieb Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo:
>   EVERY FOSS developer should RULE the world.
>  
>  I cannot help too much in developing, but i try to help as much as i can
>  in other ways. I`m not just a troll using what "others" have done using
>  their free time, and love.
>  
>  And, as Daniel say, this is based in the most commonly used OS, which is
>  closed source, and from a giant (Microsoft). IMHO thats the main  reason
>  why the ReactOS team do not have organizations support and donations
>  (please correct me if i am wrong).
>  
>   ReactOS devs have my very respect, and should have YOURS! 
>  
>  On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Daniel Reimer
>  &lt;daniel.reimer(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
>  
>      Hi,
>  
>      yes there might be some problems with getting in touch to the right
>      ppl on IRC and even worse on the forums. It's a problem we can
>      hardly change because everyone lives somewhere else and has other
>      circumstances in his life. So a 24:7 presence might become
>      difficult. For such I recommend a mailing list for exactly that one
>      case. Add it to website and we are set. SO... in theory your idea,
>      but as mailing list ^^
>  
>      P.S. Main reason why devs are not in the forums or #reactos are
>      exactly what we saw here in mailing list as 100% perfect example.
>      Drama, Kindergarten and ppl who have NO CLUE (who the F***K told you
>      we can hire devs at ease??! I'd like to talk to that guy...) what
>      they are talking about. Our devs are here to develop and not to play
>      babysitter or being accused for having a real life and real work and
>      real problems and thus are being accused to be lazy dipshits who
>      don't even care about the project, any report by one special person
>      or being reckless or WHATEVER you said we are. For handling all that
>      we would need someone else.... with adamantium nerves! As you all
>      know me, I would happily do that (maaaany toys for meee ^^), but
>      that would end in a massacre for sure. With some b33r afterwards,
>      but still a massacre.
>  
>      I can only recommend one thing to that special persion I talk to
>      right now. Yes, I appreciate your support, yes we all do, but stop
>      dreaming and come back to reality (we have cookies). We talk about a
>      freaking OPERATING SYSTEM based on a CLOSED ARCHITECTURE. This is no
>      LibreOffice with way less closed stuff to understand and reimplement.
>  
>      https://snag.gy/YZLkQh.jpg
>  
>      Greetings
>      Daniel
>  
>  
>      Am 25.03.2017 um 23:07 schrieb tobias.k(a)posteo.de
>      <mailto:[e-mail]>:
>  
>          Hello everybody,
>  
>          I'm new to ReactOS for just a few days. I did not contribute to
>          ReactOS yet. So, I don't feel qualified to discuss Colin's
>          proposal, but maybe it'll help you giving you statements from
>          another perspective.
>  
>          Since there already exist so many answers, I just decided to
>          answer Colin's proposal directly.
>  
>  
>          I think that your problem is not a technical one. What you need
>          are people feeling responsible to newcomers.
>  
>  
>          A week ago, when I joined #reactos, I asked for some legal
>          advice. Luckily, learn_more copied my question to #reactos-dev
>          since I wouldn't have joined that chan on my own, because I'm
>          not a developer yet. Unfortunately, my question has not been
>          answered yet a couple of hours later, so I followed learn_more's
>          hint to reask my question on the ReactOS devs mailing list.
>          There, I got different answers leading me to the thought that
>          nobody is quite sure about it. Afterwards, I supposed that
>          someone could adapt the Wiki due to the clarification, but
>          nobody cared, not even now.
>  
>          There is also another newcomer, Pranay Pratyush, who asked for
>          some newbie help, too, but nobody answered yet (at least not
>          publicly). This also reinforced my impression that nobody feels
>          responsible to new people. I bet, if you would welcome them, you
>          could have more developers in a few weeks.
>  
>  
>          Instead of Colin's proposal, I suggest that you create a new IRC
>          channel #reactos-dev-newbies (or something like that) and put in
>          some of you who will greet newcomers and so on. This chan might
>          be open for everyone. Once established, this should fulfill its
>          purpose round the clock. Thus, it'll force you to have some of
>          you being responsible to newcomers.
>  
>  
>          I hope that I could help.
>  
>          Tobias
>  
>  
>          Am 24.03.2017 11:21 schrieb Colin Finck:
>  
>              Hi all!
>  
>              As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a
>              moderated IRC
>              channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced
>              people can
>              talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related
>              there, no
>              topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that
>              I see a
>              notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
>  
>              This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly
>              have a way to
>              interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
>              questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover,
>              we don't
>              maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some
>              contributors
>              have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
>  
>              Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where
>              students shall
>              submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
>              How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev
>              continues to be an
>              exclusive club?
>  
>              Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the
>              moderation bit on
>              #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
>              Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as
>              people get
>              too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and
>              kicked if nothing
>              else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on
>              #reactos-dev,
>              it's fully in their hands.
>  
>  
>              Cheers,
>  
>              Colin
>  
>              _______________________________________________
>              Ros-dev mailing list
>              Ros-dev(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>
>              http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>              <http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev>
>  
>  
>          _______________________________________________
>          Ros-dev mailing list
>          Ros-dev(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>
>          http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>          <http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev>
>  
>  
>  
>      _______________________________________________
>      Ros-dev mailing list
>      Ros-dev(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>
>      http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>      <http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev>
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

[Daniel Reimer]

Just to be 100% sure, I did not mean you tk ^^

Greetings


Am 26.03.2017 um 14:57 schrieb tk:
>   For clarification, I didn't want to say that it
> has to be a developer
>  who could be responsible to newbies. Also, I didn't say that hiring
>  developers would be easy. So, I'm sorry if this was ambiguous!
>
>  And I can really imagine that coding a closed-source OS is difficult,
>  especially when done in the spare free time, so I have to bow. You all
>  did and do a great job!
>
>
>  Am 26.03.2017 um 14:06 schrieb Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo:
> >   EVERY FOSS developer should RULE the world.
> >
> >  I cannot help too much in developing, but i try to help as much as i can
> >  in other ways. I`m not just a troll using what "others" have done using
> >  their free time, and love.
> >
> >  And, as Daniel say, this is based in the most commonly used OS, which is
> >  closed source, and from a giant (Microsoft). IMHO thats the main  reason
> >  why the ReactOS team do not have organizations support and donations
> >  (please correct me if i am wrong).
> >
> >    ReactOS devs have my very respect, and should have YOURS!
> >
> >  On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Daniel Reimer
> >  &lt;daniel.reimer(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> >
> >       Hi,
> >
> >       yes there might be some problems with getting in touch to the right
> >       ppl on IRC and even worse on the forums. It's a problem we can
> >       hardly change because everyone lives somewhere else and has other
> >       circumstances in his life. So a 24:7 presence might become
> >       difficult. For such I recommend a mailing list for exactly that one
> >       case. Add it to website and we are set. SO... in theory your idea,
> >       but as mailing list ^^
> >
> >       P.S. Main reason why devs are not in the forums or #reactos are
> >       exactly what we saw here in mailing list as 100% perfect example.
> >       Drama, Kindergarten and ppl who have NO CLUE (who the F***K told you
> >       we can hire devs at ease??! I'd like to talk to that guy...) what
> >       they are talking about. Our devs are here to develop and not to play
> >       babysitter or being accused for having a real life and real work and
> >       real problems and thus are being accused to be lazy dipshits who
> >       don't even care about the project, any report by one special person
> >       or being reckless or WHATEVER you said we are. For handling all that
> >       we would need someone else.... with adamantium nerves! As you all
> >       know me, I would happily do that (maaaany toys for meee ^^), but
> >       that would end in a massacre for sure. With some b33r afterwards,
> >       but still a massacre.
> >
> >       I can only recommend one thing to that special persion I talk to
> >       right now. Yes, I appreciate your support, yes we all do, but stop
> >       dreaming and come back to reality (we have cookies). We talk about a
> >       freaking OPERATING SYSTEM based on a CLOSED ARCHITECTURE. This is no
> >       LibreOffice with way less closed stuff to understand and reimplement.
> >
> >       https://snag.gy/YZLkQh.jpg
> >
> >       Greetings
> >       Daniel
> >
> >
> >       Am 25.03.2017 um 23:07 schrieb tobias.k(a)posteo.de
> >       <mailto:[e-mail]>:
> >
> >           Hello everybody,
> >
> >           I'm new to ReactOS for just a few days. I did not contribute to
> >           ReactOS yet. So, I don't feel qualified to discuss Colin's
> >           proposal, but maybe it'll help you giving you statements from
> >           another perspective.
> >
> >           Since there already exist so many answers, I just decided to
> >           answer Colin's proposal directly.
> >
> >
> >           I think that your problem is not a technical one. What you need
> >           are people feeling responsible to newcomers.
> >
> >
> >           A week ago, when I joined #reactos, I asked for some legal
> >           advice. Luckily, learn_more copied my question to #reactos-dev
> >           since I wouldn't have joined that chan on my own, because I'm
> >           not a developer yet. Unfortunately, my question has not been
> >           answered yet a couple of hours later, so I followed learn_more's
> >           hint to reask my question on the ReactOS devs mailing list.
> >           There, I got different answers leading me to the thought that
> >           nobody is quite sure about it. Afterwards, I supposed that
> >           someone could adapt the Wiki due to the clarification, but
> >           nobody cared, not even now.
> >
> >           There is also another newcomer, Pranay Pratyush, who asked for
> >           some newbie help, too, but nobody answered yet (at least not
> >           publicly). This also reinforced my impression that nobody feels
> >           responsible to new people. I bet, if you would welcome them, you
> >           could have more developers in a few weeks.
> >
> >
> >           Instead of Colin's proposal, I suggest that you create a new IRC
> >           channel #reactos-dev-newbies (or something like that) and put in
> >           some of you who will greet newcomers and so on. This chan might
> >           be open for everyone. Once established, this should fulfill its
> >           purpose round the clock. Thus, it'll force you to have some of
> >           you being responsible to newcomers.
> >
> >
> >           I hope that I could help.
> >
> >           Tobias
> >
> >
> >           Am 24.03.2017 11:21 schrieb Colin Finck:
> >
> >               Hi all!
> >
> >               As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a
> >               moderated IRC
> >               channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced
> >               people can
> >               talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related
> >               there, no
> >               topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is that
> >               I see a
> >               notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these days.
> >
> >               This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly
> >               have a way to
> >               interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough, legitimate
> >               questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos. Moreover,
> >               we don't
> >               maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some
> >               contributors
> >               have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
> >
> >               Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where
> >               students shall
> >               submit their proposals and get in touch with the developers.
> >               How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev
> >               continues to be an
> >               exclusive club?
> >
> >               Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the
> >               moderation bit on
> >               #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
> >               Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as
> >               people get
> >               too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and
> >               kicked if nothing
> >               else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on
> >               #reactos-dev,
> >               it's fully in their hands.
> >
> >
> >               Cheers,
> >
> >               Colin
> >
> >               _______________________________________________
> >               Ros-dev mailing list
> >               Ros-dev(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>
> >               http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> >               <http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev>
> >
> >
> >           _______________________________________________
> >           Ros-dev mailing list
> >           Ros-dev(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>
> >           http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> >           <http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev>
> >
> >
> >
> >       _______________________________________________
> >       Ros-dev mailing list
> >       Ros-dev(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>
> >       http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> >       <http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> >  Ros-dev mailing list
> >  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> >  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> >  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[tk]

Ah, okay! Now I see! :)
Since I am the only writer between Colin and you in this special thread,
I felt guilty about it.

Re-Greetings

Am 26.03.2017 um 20:01 schrieb Daniel Reimer:
>   Just to be 100% sure, I did not mean you tk ^^
>  
>  Greetings
>  
>  
>  Am 26.03.2017 um 14:57 schrieb tk:
> >   For clarification, I didn't want to say that
> > it has to be a developer
> >  who could be responsible to newbies. Also, I didn't say that hiring
> >  developers would be easy. So, I'm sorry if this was ambiguous!
> >
> >  And I can really imagine that coding a closed-source OS is difficult,
> >  especially when done in the spare free time, so I have to bow. You all
> >  did and do a great job!
> >
> >
> >  Am 26.03.2017 um 14:06 schrieb Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo:
> > >   EVERY FOSS developer should RULE the world.
> > >
> > >  I cannot help too much in developing, but i try to help as much as i can
> > >  in other ways. I`m not just a troll using what "others" have done using
> > >  their free time, and love.
> > >
> > >  And, as Daniel say, this is based in the most commonly used OS, which is
> > >  closed source, and from a giant (Microsoft). IMHO thats the main  reason
> > >  why the ReactOS team do not have organizations support and donations
> > >  (please correct me if i am wrong).
> > >
> > >    ReactOS devs have my very respect, and should have YOURS!
> > >
> > >  On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 at 12:55 AM, Daniel Reimer
> > >  &lt;daniel.reimer(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
> > >
> > >       Hi,
> > >
> > >       yes there might be some problems with getting in touch to the right
> > >       ppl on IRC and even worse on the forums. It's a problem we can
> > >       hardly change because everyone lives somewhere else and has other
> > >       circumstances in his life. So a 24:7 presence might become
> > >       difficult. For such I recommend a mailing list for exactly that one
> > >       case. Add it to website and we are set. SO... in theory your idea,
> > >       but as mailing list ^^
> > >
> > >       P.S. Main reason why devs are not in the forums or #reactos are
> > >       exactly what we saw here in mailing list as 100% perfect example.
> > >       Drama, Kindergarten and ppl who have NO CLUE (who the F***K told
> > >  you
> > >       we can hire devs at ease??! I'd like to talk to that guy...) what
> > >       they are talking about. Our devs are here to develop and not to
> > >  play
> > >       babysitter or being accused for having a real life and real work
> > >  and
> > >       real problems and thus are being accused to be lazy dipshits who
> > >       don't even care about the project, any report by one special person
> > >       or being reckless or WHATEVER you said we are. For handling all
> > >  that
> > >       we would need someone else.... with adamantium nerves! As you all
> > >       know me, I would happily do that (maaaany toys for meee ^^), but
> > >       that would end in a massacre for sure. With some b33r afterwards,
> > >       but still a massacre.
> > >
> > >       I can only recommend one thing to that special persion I talk to
> > >       right now. Yes, I appreciate your support, yes we all do, but stop
> > >       dreaming and come back to reality (we have cookies). We talk
> > >  about a
> > >       freaking OPERATING SYSTEM based on a CLOSED ARCHITECTURE. This
> > >  is no
> > >       LibreOffice with way less closed stuff to understand and
> > >  reimplement.
> > >
> > >       https://snag.gy/YZLkQh.jpg
> > >
> > >       Greetings
> > >       Daniel
> > >
> > >
> > >       Am 25.03.2017 um 23:07 schrieb tobias.k(a)posteo.de
> > >       <mailto:[e-mail]>:
> > >
> > >           Hello everybody,
> > >
> > >           I'm new to ReactOS for just a few days. I did not contribute to
> > >           ReactOS yet. So, I don't feel qualified to discuss Colin's
> > >           proposal, but maybe it'll help you giving you statements from
> > >           another perspective.
> > >
> > >           Since there already exist so many answers, I just decided to
> > >           answer Colin's proposal directly.
> > >
> > >
> > >           I think that your problem is not a technical one. What you need
> > >           are people feeling responsible to newcomers.
> > >
> > >
> > >           A week ago, when I joined #reactos, I asked for some legal
> > >           advice. Luckily, learn_more copied my question to #reactos-dev
> > >           since I wouldn't have joined that chan on my own, because I'm
> > >           not a developer yet. Unfortunately, my question has not been
> > >           answered yet a couple of hours later, so I followed
> > >  learn_more's
> > >           hint to reask my question on the ReactOS devs mailing list.
> > >           There, I got different answers leading me to the thought that
> > >           nobody is quite sure about it. Afterwards, I supposed that
> > >           someone could adapt the Wiki due to the clarification, but
> > >           nobody cared, not even now.
> > >
> > >           There is also another newcomer, Pranay Pratyush, who asked for
> > >           some newbie help, too, but nobody answered yet (at least not
> > >           publicly). This also reinforced my impression that nobody feels
> > >           responsible to new people. I bet, if you would welcome them,
> > >  you
> > >           could have more developers in a few weeks.
> > >
> > >
> > >           Instead of Colin's proposal, I suggest that you create a new
> > >  IRC
> > >           channel #reactos-dev-newbies (or something like that) and
> > >  put in
> > >           some of you who will greet newcomers and so on. This chan might
> > >           be open for everyone. Once established, this should fulfill its
> > >           purpose round the clock. Thus, it'll force you to have some of
> > >           you being responsible to newcomers.
> > >
> > >
> > >           I hope that I could help.
> > >
> > >           Tobias
> > >
> > >
> > >           Am 24.03.2017 11:21 schrieb Colin Finck:
> > >
> > >               Hi all!
> > >
> > >               As you all know, our #reactos-dev IRC channel has been a
> > >               moderated IRC
> > >               channel for decades, and only operators (devs) and voiced
> > >               people can
> > >               talk. While we always tried to keep discussions dev-related
> > >               there, no
> > >               topic has ever been enforced on #reactos. The result is
> > >  that
> > >               I see a
> > >               notable number of developers only on #reactos-dev these
> > >  days.
> > >
> > >               This is a pretty bad situation! Emerging developers hardly
> > >               have a way to
> > >               interact with all existing devs on IRC. Often enough,
> > >  legitimate
> > >               questions from them remain unanswered on #reactos.
> > >  Moreover,
> > >               we don't
> > >               maintain the list of voiced people thoroughly, so even some
> > >               contributors
> > >               have to ask for temporary voice on #reactos-dev.
> > >
> > >               Keep in mind that we're currently in the GSoC phase where
> > >               students shall
> > >               submit their proposals and get in touch with the
> > >  developers.
> > >               How are they going to do this on IRC if #reactos-dev
> > >               continues to be an
> > >               exclusive club?
> > >
> > >               Because of these reasons, I'm proposing to remove the
> > >               moderation bit on
> > >               #reactos-dev and let everybody talk there.
> > >               Its development topic should be enforced though! As soon as
> > >               people get
> > >               too off-topic, they should be directed to #reactos and
> > >               kicked if nothing
> > >               else helps. Given that all devs are already operators on
> > >               #reactos-dev,
> > >               it's fully in their hands.
> > >
> > >
> > >               Cheers,
> > >
> > >               Colin
> > >
> > >               _______________________________________________
> > >               Ros-dev mailing list
> > >               Ros-dev(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>
> > >               http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> > >               <http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev>
> > >
> > >
> > >           _______________________________________________
> > >           Ros-dev mailing list
> > >           Ros-dev(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>
> > >           http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> > >           <http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >       _______________________________________________
> > >       Ros-dev mailing list
> > >       Ros-dev(a)reactos.org <mailto:[e-mail]>
> > >       http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> > >       <http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  _______________________________________________
> > >  Ros-dev mailing list
> > >  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> > >  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
> > >  
> >  _______________________________________________
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> >  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
> >  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev 
>  
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