27 Nov
2005
27 Nov
'05
8:31 a.m.
Hi,
There is some code in the C Runtime that was part of the Win32 port of
perl. As such it carries the copyright Microsoft. I suggest we remove
and rewrite these functions, as this will hinder us from being able to
say
"ReactOS is 100% free of Microsoft Code"
Even if it is GPL it does not sit well with me. Anyone up to help on this?
--
Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and
that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
27 Nov
27 Nov
11:58 a.m.
What portions of code are affected, exactly?
On 11/27/05, Steven Edwards <winehacker(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
There is some code in the C Runtime that was part of the Win32 port of
perl. As such it carries the copyright Microsoft. I suggest we remove
and rewrite these functions, as this will hinder us from being able to
say
"ReactOS is 100% free of Microsoft Code"
Even if it is GPL it does not sit well with me. Anyone up to help on this?
--
Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and
that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
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"I had a handle on life, but then it broke"
7:04 p.m.
If Microsoft contributes to GPL software, why shouldn't we re-use that
code? IIRC, ReactOS is about a free Windows implementation, not an
anti-Microsoft implementation.
On 11/27/05, TwoTailedFox <twotailedfox(a)gmail.com> wrote:
What portions of code are affected, exactly?
On 11/27/05, Steven Edwards <winehacker(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
Mike
Hi,
There is some code in the C Runtime that was part of the Win32 port of
perl. As such it carries the copyright Microsoft. I suggest we remove
and rewrite these functions, as this will hinder us from being able to
say
"ReactOS is 100% free of Microsoft Code"
Even if it is GPL it does not sit well with me. Anyone up to help on this?
--
Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and
that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
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--
"I had a handle on life, but then it broke"
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9:21 p.m.
Hi Mike,
On 11/27/05, Mike Swanson <mikeonthecomputer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
If Microsoft contributes to GPL software, why
shouldn't we re-use that
code? IIRC, ReactOS is about a free Windows implementation, not an
anti-Microsoft implementation.
I would agree with you except for the fact that its not really that
much code in question and we would be better off if we could do
without it. People already have enough trouble with the idea of the
GPL at least in the business world. Combine that with the fact that if
someone was really going to use ReactOS in business then they most
likely would not want to have anything to do with Microsoft.
When it comes down to it I just don't like the idea of them "owning"
any part of ReactOS.
--
Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and
that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
10:59 p.m.
Owning?
If this code is open-source/public domain, what is the problem?
I really don't see where the problem is.
"Combine that with the fact that if
someone was really going to use ReactOS in business then they most
likely would not want to have anything to do with Microsoft."
Explain why not. Really. Businesses use Microsoft a lot, hell,
everyone who has ever written for the Win32 platform has something to
do with Microsoft.
On 11/27/05, Steven Edwards <winehacker(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Mike,
On 11/27/05, Mike Swanson <mikeonthecomputer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
"I had a handle on life, but then it broke"
If Microsoft contributes to GPL software, why
shouldn't we re-use that
code? IIRC, ReactOS is about a free Windows implementation, not an
anti-Microsoft implementation.
I would agree with you except for the fact that its not really that
much code in question and we would be better off if we could do
without it. People already have enough trouble with the idea of the
GPL at least in the business world. Combine that with the fact that if
someone was really going to use ReactOS in business then they most
likely would not want to have anything to do with Microsoft.
When it comes down to it I just don't like the idea of them "owning"
any part of ReactOS.
--
Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and
that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
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11:11 p.m.
From: TwoTailedFox
Owning?
Yes, Microsoft still owns that code, like I own the code I contributed to
ReactOS. They (and me too :)) have given an irrevokable, perpetual license
to use it, but they still own it.
If this code is open-source/public domain, what is the
problem?
There is no legal problem, but it can get confusing. "You guys didn't use
any of the leaked source code, so there is no Microsoft code in your OS?"
"Well, actually, there are a few bits of Microsoft code". I agree with
Steven, it's much better to not have to explain this.
GvG
28 Nov
28 Nov
1:19 a.m.
Ge van Geldorp wrote:
There is a clear differnce between closed leaked source code and GPL
code donated to the community. The whole point of the GPL is to benefit
the entire base of developers and users with your code. If we're going
to start behaving like immature brats "oh noes! It's MS GPL! ewww it's
got the cooties!" then all we're doing is undermining the very essence
of the open source movement. If you want MS to change their practices
and start embracing this practice, it's not by denying them the right to
have their code used that you're going to be helping things. By denying
their code, you're just acting selfishly like a child and will make them
think twice about what the whole point of Open Sourcing software is, if
they're still bring treated like shit?
From:
TwoTailedFox
Owning?
Yes, Microsoft still owns that code, like I own the code I contributed to
ReactOS. They (and me too :)) have given an irrevokable, perpetual license
to use it, but they still own it.
If this code is open-source/public domain, what is
the problem?
There is no legal problem, but it can get confusing. "You guys didn't use
any of the leaked source code, so there is no Microsoft code in your OS?"
"Well, actually, there are a few bits of Microsoft code". I agree with
Steven, it's much better to not have to explain this.
GvG
Best regards,
Alex Ionescu
1:34 a.m.
We do have the right not to use the code, but there should be a better
reason than "because it's made by Microsoft"
On 11/27/05, Alex Ionescu <ionucu(a)videotron.ca> wrote:
There is a clear differnce between closed leaked
source code and GPL
code donated to the community. The whole point of the GPL is to benefit
the entire base of developers and users with your code. If we're going
to start behaving like immature brats "oh noes! It's MS GPL! ewww it's
got the cooties!" then all we're doing is undermining the very essence
of the open source movement. If you want MS to change their practices
and start embracing this practice, it's not by denying them the right to
have their code used that you're going to be helping things. By denying
their code, you're just acting selfishly like a child and will make them
think twice about what the whole point of Open Sourcing software is, if
they're still bring treated like shit?
Best regards,
Alex Ionescu
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--
Mike
3:05 a.m.
Hi,
On 11/27/05, Mike Swanson <mikeonthecomputer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
We do have the right not to use the code, but there
should be a better
reason than "because it's made by Microsoft"
No my point was because it would be a pain to explain to some pointy
haired boss in a mega-corporation. The amount of Microsoft code we use
is very very insubstantial and for the record I am not opposed to
using Microsoft code in certain ways. I would have no problem shipping
the MS Webfonts or the WIX packaging tools on the website as downloads
from a ReactOS live service or as addons in rosapps. My point is that
for the sake of explanation and the case of ReactOS being independent
I think we should remove the code. I emailed to seek feedback on that
before calling for a vote as we seem to have enough of them going on
atm......
--
Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and
that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
1:55 p.m.
Hi,
On 11/27/05, Mike Swanson <mikeonthecomputer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I tend to not want anything microsoft if I'm going to go with a
non-microsoft product but why would you need to explain that very little
microsoft code is used? I would think that most people would be happy
with 'all the microsoft code we use is from GPL projects' would be an
adequate explination. For that matter, 'all the code in ReactOS is
under the GPL or compatible license' will be all that most people see.
But of course, that's just my opinion.
Dennis
We do have the right not to use the code, but
there should be a better
reason than "because it's made by Microsoft"
No my point was because it would be a pain to explain to some pointy
haired boss in a mega-corporation. The amount of Microsoft code we use
is very very insubstantial and for the record I am not opposed to
using Microsoft code in certain ways. I would have no problem shipping
the MS Webfonts or the WIX packaging tools on the website as downloads
from a ReactOS live service or as addons in rosapps. My point is that
for the sake of explanation and the case of ReactOS being independent
I think we should remove the code. I emailed to seek feedback on that
before calling for a vote as we seem to have enough of them going on
atm......
--
Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and
that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
4:42 p.m.
ReactOS has bigger issues than complain about who wrote such-and-such
*free software*. Unless of course you guys would rather go the ESR-way
and hate Microsoft no matter what they do, free/"Open Source" or not.
On 11/28/05, Dennis-ReactOs <reactos(a)dev.listtwist.com> wrote:
I tend to not want anything microsoft if I'm going to go with a
non-microsoft product but why would you need to explain that very little
microsoft code is used? I would think that most people would be happy
with 'all the microsoft code we use is from GPL projects' would be an
adequate explination. For that matter, 'all the code in ReactOS is
under the GPL or compatible license' will be all that most people see.
But of course, that's just my opinion.
Dennis
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Mike
5:29 p.m.
ReactOS... The Open Source Windows(TM) compatable Operating System.
I think this sums it up. No need to re-write open code. IMHO.
On 11/28/05, Mike Swanson <mikeonthecomputer(a)gmail.com> wrote:
ReactOS has bigger issues than complain about who wrote such-and-such
*free software*. Unless of course you guys would rather go the ESR-way
and hate Microsoft no matter what they do, free/"Open Source" or not.
On 11/28/05, Dennis-ReactOs <reactos(a)dev.listtwist.com> wrote:
--
David Johnson
http://www.davefilms.us
I tend to not want anything microsoft if I'm going to go with a
non-microsoft product but why would you need to explain that very little
microsoft code is used? I would think that most people would be happy
with 'all the microsoft code we use is from GPL projects' would be an
adequate explination. For that matter, 'all the code in ReactOS is
under the GPL or compatible license' will be all that most people see.
But of course, that's just my opinion.
Dennis
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Mike
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3:09 a.m.
Hi,
On 11/27/05, Alex Ionescu <ionucu(a)videotron.ca> wrote:
of the open source movement. If you want MS to change
their practices
and start embracing this practice, it's not by denying them the right to
have their code used that you're going to be helping things. By denying
their code, you're just acting selfishly like a child and will make them
think twice about what the whole point of Open Sourcing software is, if
they're still bring treated like shit?
See my reply to Mike about using MS Fonts and WIX as addons to
ReactOS. I have no problem with that. Even the WTL as a download or
extra lib in rosapps is fine with me. I just am arguing for no
Microsoft code in ReactOS Core so to speak. This way some company that
may be building services around ReactOS can clearly say "This is a
100% independent implementation. If anyone would like me to explain
situations I know of where the business has wanted a 100% Microsoft
solution I am happy to speak about it in private.
--
Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and
that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
1:45 p.m.
Steven Edwards wrote:
Even if it is GPL it does not sit well with me
I don't support double standards. Microsoft has always played by the
rules regarding third party licenses, properly honoring advertising
clauses and copyleft clauses, and they have done so without issuing
press releases or putting up smug statements. I find the whole thing
kind of tasteless
6870
days inactive
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13 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Alex Ionescu -
David Johnson -
Dennis-ReactOs -
Ge van Geldorp -
KJKHyperion -
Mike Swanson -
Steven Edwards -
TwoTailedFox