Hi, There is some code in the C Runtime that was part of the Win32 port of perl. As such it carries the copyright Microsoft. I suggest we remove and rewrite these functions, as this will hinder us from being able to say
"ReactOS is 100% free of Microsoft Code"
Even if it is GPL it does not sit well with me. Anyone up to help on this?
-- Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
What portions of code are affected, exactly?
On 11/27/05, Steven Edwards winehacker@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, There is some code in the C Runtime that was part of the Win32 port of perl. As such it carries the copyright Microsoft. I suggest we remove and rewrite these functions, as this will hinder us from being able to say
"ReactOS is 100% free of Microsoft Code"
Even if it is GPL it does not sit well with me. Anyone up to help on this?
-- Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
-- "I had a handle on life, but then it broke"
If Microsoft contributes to GPL software, why shouldn't we re-use that code? IIRC, ReactOS is about a free Windows implementation, not an anti-Microsoft implementation.
On 11/27/05, TwoTailedFox twotailedfox@gmail.com wrote:
What portions of code are affected, exactly?
On 11/27/05, Steven Edwards winehacker@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, There is some code in the C Runtime that was part of the Win32 port of perl. As such it carries the copyright Microsoft. I suggest we remove and rewrite these functions, as this will hinder us from being able to say
"ReactOS is 100% free of Microsoft Code"
Even if it is GPL it does not sit well with me. Anyone up to help on this?
-- Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
-- "I had a handle on life, but then it broke"
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
-- Mike
Hi Mike,
On 11/27/05, Mike Swanson mikeonthecomputer@gmail.com wrote:
If Microsoft contributes to GPL software, why shouldn't we re-use that code? IIRC, ReactOS is about a free Windows implementation, not an anti-Microsoft implementation.
I would agree with you except for the fact that its not really that much code in question and we would be better off if we could do without it. People already have enough trouble with the idea of the GPL at least in the business world. Combine that with the fact that if someone was really going to use ReactOS in business then they most likely would not want to have anything to do with Microsoft.
When it comes down to it I just don't like the idea of them "owning" any part of ReactOS.
-- Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
Owning?
If this code is open-source/public domain, what is the problem?
I really don't see where the problem is.
"Combine that with the fact that if someone was really going to use ReactOS in business then they most likely would not want to have anything to do with Microsoft."
Explain why not. Really. Businesses use Microsoft a lot, hell, everyone who has ever written for the Win32 platform has something to do with Microsoft.
On 11/27/05, Steven Edwards winehacker@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Mike,
On 11/27/05, Mike Swanson mikeonthecomputer@gmail.com wrote:
If Microsoft contributes to GPL software, why shouldn't we re-use that code? IIRC, ReactOS is about a free Windows implementation, not an anti-Microsoft implementation.
I would agree with you except for the fact that its not really that much code in question and we would be better off if we could do without it. People already have enough trouble with the idea of the GPL at least in the business world. Combine that with the fact that if someone was really going to use ReactOS in business then they most likely would not want to have anything to do with Microsoft.
When it comes down to it I just don't like the idea of them "owning" any part of ReactOS.
-- Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
-- "I had a handle on life, but then it broke"
From: TwoTailedFox
Owning?
Yes, Microsoft still owns that code, like I own the code I contributed to ReactOS. They (and me too :)) have given an irrevokable, perpetual license to use it, but they still own it.
If this code is open-source/public domain, what is the problem?
There is no legal problem, but it can get confusing. "You guys didn't use any of the leaked source code, so there is no Microsoft code in your OS?" "Well, actually, there are a few bits of Microsoft code". I agree with Steven, it's much better to not have to explain this.
GvG
Ge van Geldorp wrote:
From: TwoTailedFox
Owning?
Yes, Microsoft still owns that code, like I own the code I contributed to ReactOS. They (and me too :)) have given an irrevokable, perpetual license to use it, but they still own it.
If this code is open-source/public domain, what is the problem?
There is no legal problem, but it can get confusing. "You guys didn't use any of the leaked source code, so there is no Microsoft code in your OS?" "Well, actually, there are a few bits of Microsoft code". I agree with Steven, it's much better to not have to explain this.
There is a clear differnce between closed leaked source code and GPL code donated to the community. The whole point of the GPL is to benefit the entire base of developers and users with your code. If we're going to start behaving like immature brats "oh noes! It's MS GPL! ewww it's got the cooties!" then all we're doing is undermining the very essence of the open source movement. If you want MS to change their practices and start embracing this practice, it's not by denying them the right to have their code used that you're going to be helping things. By denying their code, you're just acting selfishly like a child and will make them think twice about what the whole point of Open Sourcing software is, if they're still bring treated like shit?
GvG
Best regards, Alex Ionescu
We do have the right not to use the code, but there should be a better reason than "because it's made by Microsoft"
On 11/27/05, Alex Ionescu ionucu@videotron.ca wrote:
There is a clear differnce between closed leaked source code and GPL code donated to the community. The whole point of the GPL is to benefit the entire base of developers and users with your code. If we're going to start behaving like immature brats "oh noes! It's MS GPL! ewww it's got the cooties!" then all we're doing is undermining the very essence of the open source movement. If you want MS to change their practices and start embracing this practice, it's not by denying them the right to have their code used that you're going to be helping things. By denying their code, you're just acting selfishly like a child and will make them think twice about what the whole point of Open Sourcing software is, if they're still bring treated like shit?
Best regards, Alex Ionescu _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
-- Mike
Hi,
On 11/27/05, Mike Swanson mikeonthecomputer@gmail.com wrote:
We do have the right not to use the code, but there should be a better reason than "because it's made by Microsoft"
No my point was because it would be a pain to explain to some pointy haired boss in a mega-corporation. The amount of Microsoft code we use is very very insubstantial and for the record I am not opposed to using Microsoft code in certain ways. I would have no problem shipping the MS Webfonts or the WIX packaging tools on the website as downloads from a ReactOS live service or as addons in rosapps. My point is that for the sake of explanation and the case of ReactOS being independent I think we should remove the code. I emailed to seek feedback on that before calling for a vote as we seem to have enough of them going on atm......
-- Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
Hi,
On 11/27/05, Mike Swanson mikeonthecomputer@gmail.com wrote:
We do have the right not to use the code, but there should be a better reason than "because it's made by Microsoft"
No my point was because it would be a pain to explain to some pointy haired boss in a mega-corporation. The amount of Microsoft code we use is very very insubstantial and for the record I am not opposed to using Microsoft code in certain ways. I would have no problem shipping the MS Webfonts or the WIX packaging tools on the website as downloads from a ReactOS live service or as addons in rosapps. My point is that for the sake of explanation and the case of ReactOS being independent I think we should remove the code. I emailed to seek feedback on that before calling for a vote as we seem to have enough of them going on atm......
I tend to not want anything microsoft if I'm going to go with a non-microsoft product but why would you need to explain that very little microsoft code is used? I would think that most people would be happy with 'all the microsoft code we use is from GPL projects' would be an adequate explination. For that matter, 'all the code in ReactOS is under the GPL or compatible license' will be all that most people see. But of course, that's just my opinion.
Dennis
-- Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
ReactOS has bigger issues than complain about who wrote such-and-such *free software*. Unless of course you guys would rather go the ESR-way and hate Microsoft no matter what they do, free/"Open Source" or not.
On 11/28/05, Dennis-ReactOs reactos@dev.listtwist.com wrote:
I tend to not want anything microsoft if I'm going to go with a non-microsoft product but why would you need to explain that very little microsoft code is used? I would think that most people would be happy with 'all the microsoft code we use is from GPL projects' would be an adequate explination. For that matter, 'all the code in ReactOS is under the GPL or compatible license' will be all that most people see. But of course, that's just my opinion.
Dennis _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
-- Mike
ReactOS... The Open Source Windows(TM) compatable Operating System. I think this sums it up. No need to re-write open code. IMHO.
On 11/28/05, Mike Swanson mikeonthecomputer@gmail.com wrote:
ReactOS has bigger issues than complain about who wrote such-and-such *free software*. Unless of course you guys would rather go the ESR-way and hate Microsoft no matter what they do, free/"Open Source" or not.
On 11/28/05, Dennis-ReactOs reactos@dev.listtwist.com wrote:
I tend to not want anything microsoft if I'm going to go with a non-microsoft product but why would you need to explain that very little microsoft code is used? I would think that most people would be happy with 'all the microsoft code we use is from GPL projects' would be an adequate explination. For that matter, 'all the code in ReactOS is under the GPL or compatible license' will be all that most people see. But of course, that's just my opinion.
Dennis _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
-- Mike
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
-- David Johnson http://www.davefilms.us
Hi,
On 11/27/05, Alex Ionescu ionucu@videotron.ca wrote:
of the open source movement. If you want MS to change their practices and start embracing this practice, it's not by denying them the right to have their code used that you're going to be helping things. By denying their code, you're just acting selfishly like a child and will make them think twice about what the whole point of Open Sourcing software is, if they're still bring treated like shit?
See my reply to Mike about using MS Fonts and WIX as addons to ReactOS. I have no problem with that. Even the WTL as a download or extra lib in rosapps is fine with me. I just am arguing for no Microsoft code in ReactOS Core so to speak. This way some company that may be building services around ReactOS can clearly say "This is a 100% independent implementation. If anyone would like me to explain situations I know of where the business has wanted a 100% Microsoft solution I am happy to speak about it in private.
-- Steven Edwards - ReactOS and Wine developer
"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo
Steven Edwards wrote:
Even if it is GPL it does not sit well with me
I don't support double standards. Microsoft has always played by the rules regarding third party licenses, properly honoring advertising clauses and copyleft clauses, and they have done so without issuing press releases or putting up smug statements. I find the whole thing kind of tasteless
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Alex Ionescu -
David Johnson -
Dennis-ReactOs -
Ge van Geldorp -
KJKHyperion -
Mike Swanson -
Steven Edwards -
TwoTailedFox