Re: [ros-dev] when will I return Magnus Olsen aka GreatLord (gedmurphy)

[Cameron Gutman]

I tested some of GreatLord's regressions and I can see how Aleksey would
get angry about all the fixes he has to do to GreatLord's code, but
GreatLord has fixed a whole lot more than he has broken and Fireball
chasing around 'if (Foo == FALSE)' and changing it to 'if (!Foo)' seems
pointless. We've got plenty of code formatted as 'if (Foo == FALSE)' in
the kernel that works great. Aleksey is making more work for himself by
making needless changes to GreatLord's code. All that is needed is
someone with commit access that is willing to correct GreatLord's
comments. I don't have a problem with finding a regression of GL's here
or there. Sure he should test his code before committing but as far as
breakages, but his code usually correct and all coders create breakages
one time or another.

[Aleksey Bragin]

On Jun 20, 2008, at 1:43 AM, Cameron Gutman wrote:

>   I tested some of GreatLord's regressions and I can
> see how Aleksey  
>  would
>  get angry about all the fixes he has to do to GreatLord's code, but
>  GreatLord has fixed a whole lot more than he has broken and Fireball
>  chasing around 'if (Foo == FALSE)' and changing it to 'if (!Foo)'  
>  seems
>  pointless. We've got plenty of code formatted as 'if (Foo ==  
>  FALSE)' in
>  the kernel that works great. Aleksey is making more work for  
>  himself by
>  making needless changes to GreatLord's code. All that is needed is
>  someone with commit access that is willing to correct GreatLord's
>  comments. I don't have a problem with finding a regression of GL's  
>  here
>  or there. Sure he should test his code before committing but as far as
>  breakages, but his code usually correct and all coders create  
>  breakages
>  one time or another. 
This whole paragraph (except the first line) sounds greatlordish :).

Speaking of which, Magnus, why don't you participate in the  
discussion yourself? You started it, so get into, say something, you  
are being discussed here, so might be you could explain where I was  
not right, or something.

But note, it was purely your decision to bring out the problem to  
public, so enjoy the consequences yourself too. Speaking more global,  
I think this story starts to make people tired, and is no fun.

I could easily get you a statistics of good vs. reverted, good vs.  
buggy commits, and nice revert wars GL was doing, but this is  
unethical and I won't do that.
It was our private problem between me and Magnus. And his will to  
make a drama out of it turned against him. Pretty sad, but I did  
everything to help, including my help, in my own time (most of the  
time wasted on "needless" - haha - changes).


WBR,
Aleksey.

[Magnus Olsen]

Here I am quitting from ReactOS for fireball does like what I writing or
my code style

Do not forget alex broken trunk/reactos over 1 year and did leave it
and fireball did not force him working in a branch Now he blame me on
breaking thing when he and alex have breaking even worse thing. I was
not avail write code on ros 1-2 month each time trunk was broken by
alex and fireball, and it still are broken for me for around 2-3
booting are need it some time get it start.

Now he using me as excuses for his behaviors I do not tolerate it any
longer. and he blame me for cause regress when I fixing correct
behavior on some gdi api or win32k, even reveres correct bugfix for
win32k example aleinid class commit to ros, was revert, it was correct
fix.  Our gdi/user32/win32k are not in good shape allot own
implemented or port from wine that is not compatible with windows nt
arch at all

MY final word:
I deleted all code I have been working on so do not ask for it, This
is final word from me and bye from my part from this project you have
great thanks to fireball why I quitting

One thing more do not forget that steven is starting paying some of the devs 
in
ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying
shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This info is not
public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aleksey Bragin" <aleksey(a)reactos.org>
To: "ReactOS Development List" <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] when will I return Magnus Olsen aka 
GreatLord(gedmurphy)


>  
>  On Jun 20, 2008, at 1:43 AM, Cameron Gutman wrote:
>
> >   I tested some of GreatLord's regressions and
> > I can see how Aleksey
> >  would
> >  get angry about all the fixes he has to do to GreatLord's code, but
> >  GreatLord has fixed a whole lot more than he has broken and Fireball
> >  chasing around 'if (Foo == FALSE)' and changing it to 'if (!Foo)'
> >  seems
> >  pointless. We've got plenty of code formatted as 'if (Foo ==
> >  FALSE)' in
> >  the kernel that works great. Aleksey is making more work for
> >  himself by
> >  making needless changes to GreatLord's code. All that is needed is
> >  someone with commit access that is willing to correct GreatLord's
> >  comments. I don't have a problem with finding a regression of GL's
> >  here
> >  or there. Sure he should test his code before committing but as far as
> >  breakages, but his code usually correct and all coders create
> >  breakages
> >  one time or another. 
>  This whole paragraph (except the first line) sounds greatlordish :).
>
>  Speaking of which, Magnus, why don't you participate in the
>  discussion yourself? You started it, so get into, say something, you
>  are being discussed here, so might be you could explain where I was
>  not right, or something.
>
>  But note, it was purely your decision to bring out the problem to
>  public, so enjoy the consequences yourself too. Speaking more global,
>  I think this story starts to make people tired, and is no fun.
>
>  I could easily get you a statistics of good vs. reverted, good vs.
>  buggy commits, and nice revert wars GL was doing, but this is
>  unethical and I won't do that.
>  It was our private problem between me and Magnus. And his will to
>  make a drama out of it turned against him. Pretty sad, but I did
>  everything to help, including my help, in my own time (most of the
>  time wasted on "needless" - haha - changes).
>
>
>  WBR,
>  Aleksey.
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[James Tabor]

Okay~

>   One thing more do not forget that steven is starting
> paying some of the devs
>  in
>  ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying
>  shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This info is not
>  public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this.
>  
http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/Constitution#The_Project_Coordinator

I would say one year is up.

Not happy, no sir, not happy at all~! Down this road before and we
know what happen the last time.
No sir, NO,
James

[Alex Ionescu]

Looks like it's time for me to come back and help you get your shit
back together, right? :)

Best regards,
Alex Ionescu


On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 4:51 PM, James Tabor <jimtabor.rosdev(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>   Okay~
>
> >   One thing more do not forget that steven is
> > starting paying some of the devs
> >  in
> >  ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying
> >  shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This info is not
> >  public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this.
> >  
>  http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/Constitution#The_Project_Coordinator
>
>  I would say one year is up.
>
>  Not happy, no sir, not happy at all~! Down this road before and we
>  know what happen the last time.
>  No sir, NO,
>  James
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>

[James Tabor]

Hi,
I really don't know~ it could be to late~

But~ in regards to this whole affair~ with the new developing model
and all~ dividing into little groups~ with the study of this project
members in general~ even the aspirations of money in this mix~

I have concluded that there are members intellectually inadequate in
comprehending and understanding of all the vastly interlacing and
intrinsic workings of this "Timepiece". I am disappointed.

You can work in one area and make it compatible (Gdi32) but what would
happen to the kernel side if the "Other Group" did not think it was
that important to fix at that time?

Basically we will be stuck with a multi contractor group trying their
best to build a building and due to the lack of communication skills,
we now have stairs with odd step sizes and Windows tilted sideways.
Wow would that be a nice piece of art to show to the public?

Due to the critically of this, it would be incomprehensible to
subdivide at this time. The consequences would be incalculable.
Leading to the end of the project.

Think about productive communication.

Wow, what a waste of my time having to write this too..........

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Alex Ionescu <ionucu(a)videotron.ca> wrote:
>   Looks like it's time for me to come back and help
> you get your shit
>  back together, right? :)
>
>  Best regards,
>  Alex Ionescu
>
>

[Pierre SCHWEITZER]

Hi!
I'm a quite recent ReactOS developer but I'd like to say some things that appear
to me as important. First of all, you're *speaking* on a public list about a private
problem. Problem that only concerns two persons, and we should leave those persons fixing
it themselves; I think they are mature enough to make it. That's why I won't give
my opinion about that.
 
Then, you're mixing problems (still IMO). You're mixing GL case and general
breakings. Moreover you're comparing things that couldn't be. When working on a
kernel (whatever is the OS), it's really easy to break things. Whereas in usermode
area it's easier (I didn't say easy!) to track regressions.
 
Finally, I think all those discussions could have been avoid if some people had more
informations before writting. Small example, but which reveals that fact. I NEVER (for
now) broke trunk. I only tracked a regression introduced previously... And that shows one
other important thing: the most important isn't to know who introduced regression, but
the fact that there's a regression.
 
GreatLord: Sending patches to an other dev before commiting as nothing to do with an
insult. I often do it so I learn things, I don't break things, and I'm a dev
anyway. It avoids you to be alone with coding. (And it makes Hervé, Filip and Aleksey
working ;)).
 
Now I'd like to conclude on a major point. We should silent all those problems for at
least a month. Why? Easy: we're about to release since April. We should now focus on
release, and get back to those problems after. It will avoid some people accusing us of
being a bad project (and a bad team). Moreover, we're doing something unique, people
are waiting many things from us, it's up to us to offer them their expectations.
 
I'll be availlable as usual on IRC this evening.
 
Friendly,
P. Schweitzer
 



>   Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:46:10 -0500> From:
> jimtabor.rosdev(a)gmail.com> To: ros-dev(a)reactos.org> Subject: Re: [ros-dev] when will
> I return Magnus Olsen aka GreatLord> > Hi,> I really don't know~ it could be
> to late~> > But~ in regards to this whole affair~ with the new developing model>
> and all~ dividing into little groups~ with the study of this project> members in
> general~ even the aspirations of money in this mix~> > I have concluded that there
> are members intellectually inadequate in> comprehending and understanding of all the
> vastly interlacing and> intrinsic workings of this "Timepiece". I am
> disappointed.> > You can work in one area and make it compatible (Gdi32) but what
> would> happen to the kernel side if the "Other Group" did not think it
> was> that important to fix at that time?> > Basically we will be stuck with a
> multi contractor group trying their> best to build a building and due to the lack of
> communication skills,> we now have stairs with odd step sizes and Windows tilted
> sideways.> Wow would that be a nice piece of art to show to the public?> > Due to
> the critically of this, it would be incomprehensible to> subdivide at this time. The
> consequences would be incalculable.> Leading to the end of the project.> > Think
> about productive communication.> > Wow, what a waste of my time having to write this
> too..........> > On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Alex Ionescu
> <ionucu(a)videotron.ca> wrote:> > Looks like it's time for me to come back
> and help you get your shit> > back together, right? :)> >> > Best
> regards,> > Alex Ionescu> >> >>
> _______________________________________________> Ros-dev mailing list>
> Ros-dev(a)reactos.org> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
_________________________________________________________________
Votre contact a choisi Hotmail, l'e-mail ultra sécurisé. Créez un compte gratuitement
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[Aleksey Bragin]

I think it's time to end the drama, everyone had enough fun, but some  
people got really confused.

Magnus -  I enjoyed your communication and relationships skills, but  
as your recent outburst showed, the trust in you deteoriorated rather  
fast. Maybe you were my friend only due to my position and status in  
ReactOS? That's sad, I thought we've been real friends.
I still leave you a chance to get back after you calm down, but you  
will have to send an official apologise for lies you sent to this  
mailing list about me and about Steven.

Happen it earlier by one month, and Steven's life could have been  
ruined thanks to you, and to your pride and status.

So, thanks for all opinions, the topic is closed.


WBR,
Aleksey Bragin.

On Jun 20, 2008, at 5:46 AM, James Tabor wrote:

>  
>  Wow, what a waste of my time having to write this too.......... 
indeed :)

[Aleksey Bragin]

There was a democracy, in the times when audit fiasco happened, you  
remember?

WBR,
Aleksey.

On Jun 20, 2008, at 3:51 AM, James Tabor wrote:

>   Okay~
>
> >   One thing more do not forget that steven is
> > starting paying some  
> >  of the devs
> >  in
> >  ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying
> >  shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This  
> >  info is not
> >  public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this.
> >  
>  http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/ 
>  Constitution#The_Project_Coordinator
>
>  I would say one year is up.
>
>  Not happy, no sir, not happy at all~! Down this road before and we
>  know what happen the last time.
>  No sir, NO,
>  James

[Magnus Olsen]

Hi
What happen on ros-dev
betwin me and fireball
when I getting angru over something
and if it blow up. allot happen 
my word explods and did go over the egs
after my last public letter
KJK try getting me come down and fireball as
well. Both fireball and I did have vaild points
how it was handle by me was not good conducts 
at all. But that I wrote words that was not 
true. It was complete out of order. My angur
did take controll what I wrote example fireball will 
close down this project. That is not a execues at all.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aleksey Bragin" <aleksey(a)reactos.org>
To: "ReactOS Development List" <ros-dev(a)reactos.org>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] when will I return Magnus Olsen aka GreatLord


>   There was a democracy, in the times when audit fiasco
> happened, you  
>  remember?
>  
>  WBR,
>  Aleksey.
>  
>  On Jun 20, 2008, at 3:51 AM, James Tabor wrote:
>  
> >   Okay~
> >
> > >   One thing more do not forget that steven is
> > > starting paying some  
> > >  of the devs
> > >  in
> > >  ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying
> > >  shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This  
> > >  info is not
> > >  public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this.
> > >  
> >  http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/ 
> >  Constitution#The_Project_Coordinator
> >
> >  I would say one year is up.
> >
> >  Not happy, no sir, not happy at all~! Down this road before and we
> >  know what happen the last time.
> >  No sir, NO,
> >  James 
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  Ros-dev mailing list
>  Ros-dev(a)reactos.org
>  http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Steven Edwards]

On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Magnus Olsen <magnus(a)greatlord.com> wrote:
>   One thing more do not forget that steven is starting
> paying some of the devs
>  in
>  ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying
>  shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This info is not
>  public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this. 
Now this is just not right. I've talked to several developers off list
about my plans to make a ReactOS product. Never once has it included
anything about shutting down ReactOS. Thats just not feasible even if
I wanted to. I want ReactOS to be a success. I want it to get respect
from the Free Software community. I kept people in the dark about my
plans because of legal reasons. I was leaving my former employer and
being offered a severance. The company I started is making competing
products to my former employer. Legally if my former boss knew ahead
of time that I was going to start a competitor it could have been
viewed by his share holder as a failure of his fiduciary duty by
knowing paying someone that was going to start a competitor.

Since that has ended I've been very clear about the project and its
business plan. A ReactOS product called the BordeauxOS for VMs mainly
targeting the Mac platform as its the only major platform with market
share that does not include OEM licenses for Windows so using ReactOS
instead of Windows for legacy applications would be a cost savings for
Bordeaux customers.

The only thing even remotely like what you describe above that I have
done is I asked developers if they would be willing to license their
code gplv2 or later and if we could slowly work to convert the tree so
at some future date. If I needed to convince investors that their
investment would be secure I could say "We have the option of release
under a slightly more restrictive Free Software license the GPLv3".
Where ReactOS would still be GPLv2 or later, BordeauxOS would have the
option of releasing some or all of its patches under either license.
Fireball had nothing to do with that discussion and it was mainly with
1 major contributor to which I am not aware you were privy to the
discussion. I didn't ask it publicly because I know how heated the
discussion was lastime and I figured I would start with the most major
contributors first. I don't want to see ReactOS change anything
(except maybe adopt git =P), I want it to still be GPLv2. I want
fireball to still be in charge, all I want is to build a business
where we can pay people to work on the parts that don't get the love
they need so it will be usable and not just a hobby OS.

-- 
Steven Edwards

"There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and
that is an idea whose time has come." - Victor Hugo