I tested some of GreatLord's regressions and I can see how Aleksey would get angry about all the fixes he has to do to GreatLord's code, but GreatLord has fixed a whole lot more than he has broken and Fireball chasing around 'if (Foo == FALSE)' and changing it to 'if (!Foo)' seems pointless. We've got plenty of code formatted as 'if (Foo == FALSE)' in the kernel that works great. Aleksey is making more work for himself by making needless changes to GreatLord's code. All that is needed is someone with commit access that is willing to correct GreatLord's comments. I don't have a problem with finding a regression of GL's here or there. Sure he should test his code before committing but as far as breakages, but his code usually correct and all coders create breakages one time or another.
On Jun 20, 2008, at 1:43 AM, Cameron Gutman wrote:
I tested some of GreatLord's regressions and I can see how Aleksey would get angry about all the fixes he has to do to GreatLord's code, but GreatLord has fixed a whole lot more than he has broken and Fireball chasing around 'if (Foo == FALSE)' and changing it to 'if (!Foo)' seems pointless. We've got plenty of code formatted as 'if (Foo == FALSE)' in the kernel that works great. Aleksey is making more work for himself by making needless changes to GreatLord's code. All that is needed is someone with commit access that is willing to correct GreatLord's comments. I don't have a problem with finding a regression of GL's here or there. Sure he should test his code before committing but as far as breakages, but his code usually correct and all coders create breakages one time or another.
This whole paragraph (except the first line) sounds greatlordish :).
Speaking of which, Magnus, why don't you participate in the discussion yourself? You started it, so get into, say something, you are being discussed here, so might be you could explain where I was not right, or something.
But note, it was purely your decision to bring out the problem to public, so enjoy the consequences yourself too. Speaking more global, I think this story starts to make people tired, and is no fun.
I could easily get you a statistics of good vs. reverted, good vs. buggy commits, and nice revert wars GL was doing, but this is unethical and I won't do that. It was our private problem between me and Magnus. And his will to make a drama out of it turned against him. Pretty sad, but I did everything to help, including my help, in my own time (most of the time wasted on "needless" - haha - changes).
WBR, Aleksey.
Here I am quitting from ReactOS for fireball does like what I writing or my code style
Do not forget alex broken trunk/reactos over 1 year and did leave it and fireball did not force him working in a branch Now he blame me on breaking thing when he and alex have breaking even worse thing. I was not avail write code on ros 1-2 month each time trunk was broken by alex and fireball, and it still are broken for me for around 2-3 booting are need it some time get it start.
Now he using me as excuses for his behaviors I do not tolerate it any longer. and he blame me for cause regress when I fixing correct behavior on some gdi api or win32k, even reveres correct bugfix for win32k example aleinid class commit to ros, was revert, it was correct fix. Our gdi/user32/win32k are not in good shape allot own implemented or port from wine that is not compatible with windows nt arch at all
MY final word: I deleted all code I have been working on so do not ask for it, This is final word from me and bye from my part from this project you have great thanks to fireball why I quitting
One thing more do not forget that steven is starting paying some of the devs in ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This info is not public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Aleksey Bragin" aleksey@reactos.org To: "ReactOS Development List" ros-dev@reactos.org Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 12:05 AM Subject: Re: [ros-dev] when will I return Magnus Olsen aka GreatLord(gedmurphy)
On Jun 20, 2008, at 1:43 AM, Cameron Gutman wrote:
I tested some of GreatLord's regressions and I can see how Aleksey would get angry about all the fixes he has to do to GreatLord's code, but GreatLord has fixed a whole lot more than he has broken and Fireball chasing around 'if (Foo == FALSE)' and changing it to 'if (!Foo)' seems pointless. We've got plenty of code formatted as 'if (Foo == FALSE)' in the kernel that works great. Aleksey is making more work for himself by making needless changes to GreatLord's code. All that is needed is someone with commit access that is willing to correct GreatLord's comments. I don't have a problem with finding a regression of GL's here or there. Sure he should test his code before committing but as far as breakages, but his code usually correct and all coders create breakages one time or another.
This whole paragraph (except the first line) sounds greatlordish :).
Speaking of which, Magnus, why don't you participate in the discussion yourself? You started it, so get into, say something, you are being discussed here, so might be you could explain where I was not right, or something.
But note, it was purely your decision to bring out the problem to public, so enjoy the consequences yourself too. Speaking more global, I think this story starts to make people tired, and is no fun.
I could easily get you a statistics of good vs. reverted, good vs. buggy commits, and nice revert wars GL was doing, but this is unethical and I won't do that. It was our private problem between me and Magnus. And his will to make a drama out of it turned against him. Pretty sad, but I did everything to help, including my help, in my own time (most of the time wasted on "needless" - haha - changes).
WBR, Aleksey. _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Okay~
One thing more do not forget that steven is starting paying some of the devs in ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This info is not public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this.
http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/Constitution#The_Project_Coordinator
I would say one year is up.
Not happy, no sir, not happy at all~! Down this road before and we know what happen the last time. No sir, NO, James
Looks like it's time for me to come back and help you get your shit back together, right? :)
Best regards, Alex Ionescu
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 4:51 PM, James Tabor jimtabor.rosdev@gmail.com wrote:
Okay~
One thing more do not forget that steven is starting paying some of the devs in ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This info is not public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this.
http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/Constitution#The_Project_Coordinator
I would say one year is up.
Not happy, no sir, not happy at all~! Down this road before and we know what happen the last time. No sir, NO, James _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
Hi, I really don't know~ it could be to late~
But~ in regards to this whole affair~ with the new developing model and all~ dividing into little groups~ with the study of this project members in general~ even the aspirations of money in this mix~
I have concluded that there are members intellectually inadequate in comprehending and understanding of all the vastly interlacing and intrinsic workings of this "Timepiece". I am disappointed.
You can work in one area and make it compatible (Gdi32) but what would happen to the kernel side if the "Other Group" did not think it was that important to fix at that time?
Basically we will be stuck with a multi contractor group trying their best to build a building and due to the lack of communication skills, we now have stairs with odd step sizes and Windows tilted sideways. Wow would that be a nice piece of art to show to the public?
Due to the critically of this, it would be incomprehensible to subdivide at this time. The consequences would be incalculable. Leading to the end of the project.
Think about productive communication.
Wow, what a waste of my time having to write this too..........
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Alex Ionescu ionucu@videotron.ca wrote:
Looks like it's time for me to come back and help you get your shit back together, right? :)
Best regards, Alex Ionescu
Hi! I'm a quite recent ReactOS developer but I'd like to say some things that appear to me as important. First of all, you're *speaking* on a public list about a private problem. Problem that only concerns two persons, and we should leave those persons fixing it themselves; I think they are mature enough to make it. That's why I won't give my opinion about that.
Then, you're mixing problems (still IMO). You're mixing GL case and general breakings. Moreover you're comparing things that couldn't be. When working on a kernel (whatever is the OS), it's really easy to break things. Whereas in usermode area it's easier (I didn't say easy!) to track regressions.
Finally, I think all those discussions could have been avoid if some people had more informations before writting. Small example, but which reveals that fact. I NEVER (for now) broke trunk. I only tracked a regression introduced previously... And that shows one other important thing: the most important isn't to know who introduced regression, but the fact that there's a regression.
GreatLord: Sending patches to an other dev before commiting as nothing to do with an insult. I often do it so I learn things, I don't break things, and I'm a dev anyway. It avoids you to be alone with coding. (And it makes Hervé, Filip and Aleksey working ;)).
Now I'd like to conclude on a major point. We should silent all those problems for at least a month. Why? Easy: we're about to release since April. We should now focus on release, and get back to those problems after. It will avoid some people accusing us of being a bad project (and a bad team). Moreover, we're doing something unique, people are waiting many things from us, it's up to us to offer them their expectations.
I'll be availlable as usual on IRC this evening.
Friendly, P. Schweitzer
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:46:10 -0500> From: jimtabor.rosdev@gmail.com> To: ros-dev@reactos.org> Subject: Re: [ros-dev] when will I return Magnus Olsen aka GreatLord> > Hi,> I really don't know~ it could be to late~> > But~ in regards to this whole affair~ with the new developing model> and all~ dividing into little groups~ with the study of this project> members in general~ even the aspirations of money in this mix~> > I have concluded that there are members intellectually inadequate in> comprehending and understanding of all the vastly interlacing and> intrinsic workings of this "Timepiece". I am disappointed.> > You can work in one area and make it compatible (Gdi32) but what would> happen to the kernel side if the "Other Group" did not think it was> that important to fix at that time?> > Basically we will be stuck with a multi contractor group trying their> best to build a building and due to the lack of communication skills,> we now have stairs with odd step sizes and Windows tilted sideways.> Wow would that be a nice piece of art to show to the public?> > Due to the critically of this, it would be incomprehensible to> subdivide at this time. The consequences would be incalculable.> Leading to the end of the project.> > Think about productive communication.> > Wow, what a waste of my time having to write this too..........> > On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 7:56 PM, Alex Ionescu ionucu@videotron.ca wrote:> > Looks like it's time for me to come back and help you get your shit> > back together, right? :)> >> > Best regards,> > Alex Ionescu> >> >> _______________________________________________> Ros-dev mailing list> Ros-dev@reactos.org> http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
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I think it's time to end the drama, everyone had enough fun, but some people got really confused.
Magnus - I enjoyed your communication and relationships skills, but as your recent outburst showed, the trust in you deteoriorated rather fast. Maybe you were my friend only due to my position and status in ReactOS? That's sad, I thought we've been real friends. I still leave you a chance to get back after you calm down, but you will have to send an official apologise for lies you sent to this mailing list about me and about Steven.
Happen it earlier by one month, and Steven's life could have been ruined thanks to you, and to your pride and status.
So, thanks for all opinions, the topic is closed.
WBR, Aleksey Bragin.
On Jun 20, 2008, at 5:46 AM, James Tabor wrote:
Wow, what a waste of my time having to write this too..........
indeed :)
There was a democracy, in the times when audit fiasco happened, you remember?
WBR, Aleksey.
On Jun 20, 2008, at 3:51 AM, James Tabor wrote:
Okay~
One thing more do not forget that steven is starting paying some of the devs in ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This info is not public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this.
http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/ Constitution#The_Project_Coordinator
I would say one year is up.
Not happy, no sir, not happy at all~! Down this road before and we know what happen the last time. No sir, NO, James
Hi What happen on ros-dev betwin me and fireball when I getting angru over something and if it blow up. allot happen my word explods and did go over the egs after my last public letter KJK try getting me come down and fireball as well. Both fireball and I did have vaild points how it was handle by me was not good conducts at all. But that I wrote words that was not true. It was complete out of order. My angur did take controll what I wrote example fireball will close down this project. That is not a execues at all.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Aleksey Bragin" aleksey@reactos.org To: "ReactOS Development List" ros-dev@reactos.org Sent: Friday, June 20, 2008 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [ros-dev] when will I return Magnus Olsen aka GreatLord
There was a democracy, in the times when audit fiasco happened, you remember?
WBR, Aleksey.
On Jun 20, 2008, at 3:51 AM, James Tabor wrote:
Okay~
One thing more do not forget that steven is starting paying some of the devs in ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This info is not public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this.
http://www.reactos.org/wiki/index.php/ Constitution#The_Project_Coordinator
I would say one year is up.
Not happy, no sir, not happy at all~! Down this road before and we know what happen the last time. No sir, NO, James
Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
On Thu, Jun 19, 2008 at 6:36 PM, Magnus Olsen magnus@greatlord.com wrote:
One thing more do not forget that steven is starting paying some of the devs in ReactOS , he and fireball are trying to go Commercial so they trying shutdown ReactOS and make it into project codename unros. This info is not public and only few devs known of it, and of cures he will deny this.
Now this is just not right. I've talked to several developers off list about my plans to make a ReactOS product. Never once has it included anything about shutting down ReactOS. Thats just not feasible even if I wanted to. I want ReactOS to be a success. I want it to get respect from the Free Software community. I kept people in the dark about my plans because of legal reasons. I was leaving my former employer and being offered a severance. The company I started is making competing products to my former employer. Legally if my former boss knew ahead of time that I was going to start a competitor it could have been viewed by his share holder as a failure of his fiduciary duty by knowing paying someone that was going to start a competitor.
Since that has ended I've been very clear about the project and its business plan. A ReactOS product called the BordeauxOS for VMs mainly targeting the Mac platform as its the only major platform with market share that does not include OEM licenses for Windows so using ReactOS instead of Windows for legacy applications would be a cost savings for Bordeaux customers.
The only thing even remotely like what you describe above that I have done is I asked developers if they would be willing to license their code gplv2 or later and if we could slowly work to convert the tree so at some future date. If I needed to convince investors that their investment would be secure I could say "We have the option of release under a slightly more restrictive Free Software license the GPLv3". Where ReactOS would still be GPLv2 or later, BordeauxOS would have the option of releasing some or all of its patches under either license. Fireball had nothing to do with that discussion and it was mainly with 1 major contributor to which I am not aware you were privy to the discussion. I didn't ask it publicly because I know how heated the discussion was lastime and I figured I would start with the most major contributors first. I don't want to see ReactOS change anything (except maybe adopt git =P), I want it to still be GPLv2. I want fireball to still be in charge, all I want is to build a business where we can pay people to work on the parts that don't get the love they need so it will be usable and not just a hobby OS.
-
Aleksey Bragin -
Alex Ionescu -
Cameron Gutman -
James Tabor -
Magnus Olsen -
Pierre SCHWEITZER -
Steven Edwards