Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)

<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12px">‌</span>Hi!<br>
<br>
Usually when we talk about ReactOS 0.5, we implicitly think that it will enter beta state there.<br>
So unless you consider this to not completely hold anymore, we can look at what remains to be done/fixed (importantly) so that we may qualify as going into beta state.<br>
(And yes, USB and storage sound strongly as prerequisites for 0.5 in my opinion).<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Hermes
<div class="gl_quote" style="margin-top: 20px; padding-top: 5px;">De : "Ged Murphy"<br>
A : "'ReactOS Development List'"<br>
Envoyé: mercredi 28 novembre 2018 17:42<br>
Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)<br>
&nbsp;
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Some potential talking points:</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>

<ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
    <li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Selecting a new coordinator</span></li>
    <li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Version bump to 0.5</span></li>
    <li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">USB / Storage (perhaps linked to a 0.5 release)</span></li>
    <li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Mattermost</span></li>
    <li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">New website progress</span></li>
</ul>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-fareast-language:EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></strong><span lang="EN-US"> Ros-dev &lt;[e-mail]&gt; <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Mark Jansen<br>
<strong>Sent:</strong> Wednesday, 28 November 2018 16:13<br>
<strong>To:</strong> ReactOS Development List &lt;[e-mail]&gt;<br>
<strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)</span></p>

<p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>

<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We can discuss this if you are present, but I don't see the value in discussing it without you.</p>
</div>

<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We have seen before that something discussed without the initiator being present is time not well spent, since it is a bit hard to argue with only one side of the argument present</p>
</div>

<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>

<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>

<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>

<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Op 26 nov. 2018 12:15 schreef <a href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a>:</p>

<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello,<br>
<br>
I may not be available as it's the day when I'm going somewhere for a conference; it just depends at which time I arrive at destination.<br>
<br>
For the meeting we may talk about the best way we can move to delivering all-in-one ReactOS ISOs (containing livecd + installation in both text and GUI modes), and which changes this could imply for our infrastructure (buildbots/website...).<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Hermes</p>

<div style="margin-top:15.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">De : "Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo"<br>
A : "ReactOS Development List"<br>
Envoyé: samedi 24 novembre 2018 22:06<br>
Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)<br>
&nbsp;</p>

<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm at work but I will do my best to attend!</p>
</div>

<p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>

<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">El sáb., 24 nov. 2018 21:38, Colin Finck &lt;<a href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a>&gt; escribió:</p>
</div>

<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi all!<br>
<br>
Let me invite you to the November 2018 meeting, taking place next<br>
Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 19:00 UTC.<br>
Invited members will again receive their credentials shortly before the<br>
meeting.<br>
<br>
This will be the first meeting since August and I hope we get some more<br>
topics than just the obligatory Status Reports. Please send your<br>
proposals by replying to this mail.<br>
<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Colin<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ros-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a><br>
<a href="http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev">http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>

<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ros-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a><br>
<a href="http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev">http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev</a></p>
</div>

<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>

<p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p>
</div>
</div>
<!-- PART SEPARATOR --><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ros-dev mailing list<br>
[e-mail]<br>
http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev</div>

<div class="gl_quoted">&nbsp;</div>
</div>

[Ged Murphy]

The link between 0.5 and beta was an old statement we used to have on our website, I’m not sure why that relationship existed other than a splitting an integer in half and assigning 0.5 to each stage.

I’m more of the opinion that beta products are close to release, so 0.8+ would be more suitable.

Anyway, it’s a conversation to be had internally.

Ged.

From: Ros-dev [e-mail] On Behalf Of [e-mail]
Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2018 16:51
To: ReactOS Development List [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)

‌Hi!

Usually when we talk about ReactOS 0.5, we implicitly think that it will enter beta state there.
So unless you consider this to not completely hold anymore, we can look at what remains to be done/fixed (importantly) so that we may qualify as going into beta state.
(And yes, USB and storage sound strongly as prerequisites for 0.5 in my opinion).

Best,
Hermes

De : "Ged Murphy"
A : "'ReactOS Development List'"
Envoyé: mercredi 28 novembre 2018 17:42
Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)

Some potential talking points:

*	Selecting a new coordinator
*	Version bump to 0.5
*	USB / Storage (perhaps linked to a 0.5 release)
*	Mattermost
*	New website progress

From: Ros-dev <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail] > On Behalf Of Mark Jansen
Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2018 16:13
To: ReactOS Development List <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail] >
Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)

We can discuss this if you are present, but I don't see the value in discussing it without you.

We have seen before that something discussed without the initiator being present is time not well spent, since it is a bit hard to argue with only one side of the argument present

Op 26 nov. 2018 12:15 schreef [e-mail] mailto:[e-mail] :

Hello,

I may not be available as it's the day when I'm going somewhere for a conference; it just depends at which time I arrive at destination.

For the meeting we may talk about the best way we can move to delivering all-in-one ReactOS ISOs (containing livecd + installation in both text and GUI modes), and which changes this could imply for our infrastructure (buildbots/website...).

Best regards,
Hermes

De : "Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo"
A : "ReactOS Development List"
Envoyé: samedi 24 novembre 2018 22:06
Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)

I'm at work but I will do my best to attend!

El sáb., 24 nov. 2018 21:38, Colin Finck <[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail] > escribió:

Hi all!

Let me invite you to the November 2018 meeting, taking place next
Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 19:00 UTC.
Invited members will again receive their credentials shortly before the
meeting.

This will be the first meeting since August and I hope we get some more
topics than just the obligatory Status Reports. Please send your
proposals by replying to this mail.

Best regards,

Colin

_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail] 
http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail] 
http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

_______________________________________________
Ros-dev mailing list
[e-mail] mailto:[e-mail] 
http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo]

i still think a proper driver management is required for beta stage... And
i mean, successful driver installation via installers, and not only via
.inf files

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 6:02 PM Ged Murphy [e-mail]
wrote:
> The link between 0.5 and beta was an old statement we used to have on our
> website, I’m not sure why that relationship existed other than a splitting
> an integer in half and assigning 0.5 to each stage.
>
> I’m more of the opinion that beta products are close to release, so 0.8+
> would be more suitable.
>
> Anyway, it’s a conversation to be had internally.
>
> Ged.
>
> *From:* Ros-dev [e-mail] *On Behalf Of *
> [e-mail]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 28 November 2018 16:51
> *To:* ReactOS Development List [e-mail]
> *Subject:* Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>
> ‌Hi!
>
> Usually when we talk about ReactOS 0.5, we implicitly think that it will
> enter beta state there.
> So unless you consider this to not completely hold anymore, we can look at
> what remains to be done/fixed (importantly) so that we may qualify as going
> into beta state.
> (And yes, USB and storage sound strongly as prerequisites for 0.5 in my
> opinion).
>
> Best,
> Hermes
>
> De : "Ged Murphy"
> A : "'ReactOS Development List'"
> Envoyé: mercredi 28 novembre 2018 17:42
> Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>
> Some potential talking points:
> Selecting a new coordinator
> Version bump to 0.5
> USB / Storage (perhaps linked to a 0.5 release)
> Mattermost
> New website progress
>
> *From:* Ros-dev [e-mail] *On Behalf Of *Mark Jansen
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 28 November 2018 16:13
> *To:* ReactOS Development List [e-mail]
> *Subject:* Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>
> We can discuss this if you are present, but I don't see the value in
> discussing it without you.
>
> We have seen before that something discussed without the initiator being
> present is time not well spent, since it is a bit hard to argue with only
> one side of the argument present
>
> Op 26 nov. 2018 12:15 schreef [e-mail]:
>
> Hello,
>
> I may not be available as it's the day when I'm going somewhere for a
> conference; it just depends at which time I arrive at destination.
>
> For the meeting we may talk about the best way we can move to delivering
> all-in-one ReactOS ISOs (containing livecd + installation in both text and
> GUI modes), and which changes this could imply for our infrastructure
> (buildbots/website...).
>
> Best regards,
> Hermes
>
> De : "Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo"
> A : "ReactOS Development List"
> Envoyé: samedi 24 novembre 2018 22:06
> Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>
> I'm at work but I will do my best to attend!
>
> El sáb., 24 nov. 2018 21:38, Colin Finck [e-mail] escribió:
>
> Hi all!
>
> Let me invite you to the November 2018 meeting, taking place next
> Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 19:00 UTC.
> Invited members will again receive their credentials shortly before the
> meeting.
>
> This will be the first meeting since August and I hope we get some more
> topics than just the obligatory Status Reports. Please send your
> proposals by replying to this mail.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Colin
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[David Quintana (gigaherz)]

I agree on "beta" being more like 80-90% implementation coverage, however
given the 80/20 rule applied to development, that says that < 20% of the
bugs cause >80% of the bug reports (I'd guess this will be 5% of the bugs
causing 95% of the reports, if not even more), so one could argue that
having a codebase 80% complete, is still only 50% of the work, because the
other 50% will be a whole lot of polishing.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 18:03, Ged Murphy [e-mail]
wrote:
> The link between 0.5 and beta was an old statement we used to have on our
> website, I’m not sure why that relationship existed other than a splitting
> an integer in half and assigning 0.5 to each stage.
>
> I’m more of the opinion that beta products are close to release, so 0.8+
> would be more suitable.
>
> Anyway, it’s a conversation to be had internally.
>
> Ged.
>
> *From:* Ros-dev [e-mail] *On Behalf Of *
> [e-mail]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 28 November 2018 16:51
> *To:* ReactOS Development List [e-mail]
> *Subject:* Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>
> ‌Hi!
>
> Usually when we talk about ReactOS 0.5, we implicitly think that it will
> enter beta state there.
> So unless you consider this to not completely hold anymore, we can look at
> what remains to be done/fixed (importantly) so that we may qualify as going
> into beta state.
> (And yes, USB and storage sound strongly as prerequisites for 0.5 in my
> opinion).
>
> Best,
> Hermes
>
> De : "Ged Murphy"
> A : "'ReactOS Development List'"
> Envoyé: mercredi 28 novembre 2018 17:42
> Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>
> Some potential talking points:
> Selecting a new coordinator
> Version bump to 0.5
> USB / Storage (perhaps linked to a 0.5 release)
> Mattermost
> New website progress
>
> *From:* Ros-dev [e-mail] *On Behalf Of *Mark Jansen
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 28 November 2018 16:13
> *To:* ReactOS Development List [e-mail]
> *Subject:* Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>
> We can discuss this if you are present, but I don't see the value in
> discussing it without you.
>
> We have seen before that something discussed without the initiator being
> present is time not well spent, since it is a bit hard to argue with only
> one side of the argument present
>
> Op 26 nov. 2018 12:15 schreef [e-mail]:
>
> Hello,
>
> I may not be available as it's the day when I'm going somewhere for a
> conference; it just depends at which time I arrive at destination.
>
> For the meeting we may talk about the best way we can move to delivering
> all-in-one ReactOS ISOs (containing livecd + installation in both text and
> GUI modes), and which changes this could imply for our infrastructure
> (buildbots/website...).
>
> Best regards,
> Hermes
>
> De : "Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo"
> A : "ReactOS Development List"
> Envoyé: samedi 24 novembre 2018 22:06
> Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>
> I'm at work but I will do my best to attend!
>
> El sáb., 24 nov. 2018 21:38, Colin Finck [e-mail] escribió:
>
> Hi all!
>
> Let me invite you to the November 2018 meeting, taking place next
> Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 19:00 UTC.
> Invited members will again receive their credentials shortly before the
> meeting.
>
> This will be the first meeting since August and I hope we get some more
> topics than just the obligatory Status Reports. Please send your
> proposals by replying to this mail.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Colin
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Dick]

It is common use to start beta from 0.5 because it is half way up to 1.0. 
bringing 0.5 as alpha willl cause much disappointment and is confusing for 
users.
I think an interesting point to talk about would be a roadmap. when can 
average users start to use reactos as their daily os? Is reactos able to 
become usable as windows-alternative before windows is gone and forgotten?

On Wed, 28 Nov 2018, David Quintana (gigaherz) wrote:
> I agree on "beta" being more like 80-90% implementation coverage, however
> given the 80/20 rule applied to development, that says that < 20% of the
> bugs cause >80% of the bug reports (I'd guess this will be 5% of the bugs
> causing 95% of the reports, if not even more), so one could argue that
> having a codebase 80% complete, is still only 50% of the work, because the
> other 50% will be a whole lot of polishing.
>
> On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 18:03, Ged Murphy [e-mail]
> wrote:
>   The link between 0.5 and beta was an old statement we used to
>   have on our website, I’m not sure why that relationship existed
>   other than a splitting an integer in half and assigning 0.5 to
>   each stage.
>
>   I’m more of the opinion that beta products are close to release,
>   so 0.8+ would be more suitable.
>
>    
>
>   Anyway, it’s a conversation to be had internally.
>
>    
>
>   Ged.
>
>    
>
>   From: Ros-dev <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of
>   [e-mail]
>   Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2018 16:51
>   To: ReactOS Development List <[e-mail]>
>   Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>
>    
>
>   ‌Hi!
>
>   Usually when we talk about ReactOS 0.5, we implicitly think that
>   it will enter beta state there.
>   So unless you consider this to not completely hold anymore, we
>   can look at what remains to be done/fixed (importantly) so that
>   we may qualify as going into beta state.
>   (And yes, USB and storage sound strongly as prerequisites for
>   0.5 in my opinion).
>
>   Best,
>   Hermes
>
>   De : "Ged Murphy"
>   A : "'ReactOS Development List'"
>   Envoyé: mercredi 28 novembre 2018 17:42
>   Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>    
>
>   Some potential talking points:
>
>    
>
>    o  Selecting a new coordinator
>    o  Version bump to 0.5
>    o  USB / Storage (perhaps linked to a 0.5 release)
>    o  Mattermost
>    o  New website progress
>
>    
>
>    
>
>   From: Ros-dev <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Mark
>   Jansen
>   Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2018 16:13
>   To: ReactOS Development List <[e-mail]>
>   Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>
>    
>
>   We can discuss this if you are present, but I don't see the
>   value in discussing it without you.
>
> We have seen before that something discussed without the initiator
> being present is time not well spent, since it is a bit hard to argue
> with only one side of the argument present
>
> Op 26 nov. 2018 12:15 schreef [e-mail]:
>   Hello,
>
>   I may not be available as it's the day when I'm going
>   somewhere for a conference; it just depends at which time
>   I arrive at destination.
>
>   For the meeting we may talk about the best way we can move
>   to delivering all-in-one ReactOS ISOs (containing livecd +
>   installation in both text and GUI modes), and which
>   changes this could imply for our infrastructure
>   (buildbots/website...).
>
>   Best regards,
>   Hermes
>
>   De : "Javier Agustìn Fernàndez Arroyo"
>   A : "ReactOS Development List"
>   Envoyé: samedi 24 novembre 2018 22:06
>   Objet : Re: [ros-dev] Status Meeting (November 2018)
>    
>
>   I'm at work but I will do my best to attend!
>
> El sáb., 24 nov. 2018 21:38, Colin Finck [e-mail]
> escribió:
>   Hi all!
>
>   Let me invite you to the November 2018 meeting,
>   taking place next
>   Thursday, November 29, 2018 at 19:00 UTC.
>   Invited members will again receive their credentials
>   shortly before the
>   meeting.
>
>   This will be the first meeting since August and I
>   hope we get some more
>   topics than just the obligatory Status Reports.
>   Please send your
>   proposals by replying to this mail.
>
>
>   Best regards,
>
>   Colin
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   Ros-dev mailing list
>   [e-mail]
>   http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
>
>
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev
>
> Ros-dev mailing list
> [e-mail]
> http://reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

[Thomas Mueller]

> Usually when we talk about ReactOS 0.5, we implicitly think that it will enter beta state there.<br>
> So unless you consider this to not completely hold anymore, we can look at what remains to be done/fixed (importantly) so that we may qualify as going into beta state.<br>
> (And yes, USB and storage sound strongly as prerequisites for 0.5 in my opinion).<br>
>
> <br>
> Best,<br>      
> Hermes

I strongly agree that USB support, being able to install to and boot from USB, is critically important.  Support for GPT would also be highly desirable.

Linux, FreeBSD, NetBSD, and Haiku can all be installed and run from USB, and all of these OSes support GPT.

My hard drives are all partitioned GPT, and lack of support for USB and GPT has kept me away from doing anything regarding ReactOS.  Where would I put it?

Tom