Ros-dev February 2006

ros-dev@reactos.org

57 participants
84 discussions

RE: [ros-dev] RE: What Happened
by Murphy, Ged (Bolton) 10 Feb '06

10 Feb '06

Carlo J. Calica wrote: > I don't remember reading that on this list. The public > allegations were: > wide spread "questionable" reverse engineering practices, and > devs looking > at leaked code. There were many allegations thrown about. One of the first places for something to appear was our own forums in which the post was titled something along the lines of "ReactOS contains MS leaked source code" (I don't remember the exact wording). I picked that one because it was completely untrue and unfounded. I was just using it as an example of how something untrue can escalate into something damaging. > > > Now, if this mail was received privately, we could have > dealt with the > > issue internally and avoided all this mess. Development would have > > continued whilst we resolved any potential issues. For the > community and > > the project as a whole, which would you consider to be the > better option? > > > Pretending issues don't exist won't make them go away. The resolution > shouldn't change if discussed in private or public. I never once said they would. I don't know where you got that from. The way something is handled can vary greatly dependant on the circumstances, but that doesn't avoid the fact that the issue remains and must be dealt with. > Maybe development > could have continued during a code review, but then the code > review would > take much longer and may never be completed. There might > never have been > the clarification on reverse engineering techniques. As a > potential user > and project proponent, I am VERY happy with the whistle > blowing and the > public response. ReactOS IS stronger after this setback. > Now you have a > good IP policy that is defensible. We don't have a valid IP Policy at the moment. I also fail to see how a project on the edge of closing and divided developers is stronger. > PLEASE reconsider the private list. Failing that, members of > the list, move > public topics here. We DO appreciate it. It IS for the good of the > project. Public topics are _not_ discussed on the private list. In all honesty, very little is discussed on the private list. This is just another example of something being blown out of proportion. Developers have been having private discussions since the project started about 8 years ago, however they are few and far between. It's just that now instead of using private emails exclusively, a mailing list has been set up for convenience. Nothing has changed. I'm sure members of the community who are non-developers also do the same. I don't ask that they discuss their issues on the public mailing list either. > Don't feel the need to respond. I just wanted to provide an alternate > viewpoint. This topic is very much opinion. I doubt you'll > be able to > change mine and I may be unable to change yours. I am nothing but an > interested observer, you owe me nothing. Thanks for hearing me out. All views are fully welcome, and valid. This project belongs to everyone. Ged. ************************************************************************ The information contained in this message or any of its attachments is confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. The views expressed may not be company policy, but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact postmaster(a)exideuk.co.uk <mailto:postmaster@exideuk.co.uk> and then delete this message. Exide Technologies is an industrial and transportation battery producer and recycler with operations in 89 countries. Further information can be found at www.exide.com

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RE: [ros-dev] What Happened
by Murphy, Ged (Bolton) 10 Feb '06

10 Feb '06

Rick Langschultz wrote: > Creating a private mailing list > not available to the community restricts information from getting to > developers that want to continue to develop reactos, whether they > commit or not. The private mailing list has nothing to do with development and certainly contains no information that could be deemed useful towards the development of ROS. It's just somewhere developers can discuss sensitive issues without worrying about setting a an exponential bomb off. All projects have their problems. It's much better for both the project and community as a whole if these problems aren't broadcast worldwide. We used to use personal emails or MSN, this just takes over that role making it easier and quicker. I'll give you an example, take the recent allegations of leaked MS source code in the ReactOS repository. These allegations completely were untrue, however as soon as this found it's way onto the public mailing list, drastic and maybe over reactive actions were taken. This email has single handidly stopped all development of ReactOS for the past 2 weeks and has the potential of holding the project up for a year or two. It's safe to say the project has been in trouble of dying off completely. Now, if this mail was received privately, we could have dealt with the issue internally and avoided all this mess. Development would have continued whilst we resolved any potential issues. For the community and the project as a whole, which would you consider to be the better option? All projects have their problems, you just never hear about them because they aren't made public. There is nothing to be gained by hanging out your dirty linen in public. Ged. ************************************************************************ The information contained in this message or any of its attachments is confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. The views expressed may not be company policy, but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact postmaster(a)exideuk.co.uk <mailto:postmaster@exideuk.co.uk> and then delete this message. Exide Technologies is an industrial and transportation battery producer and recycler with operations in 89 countries. Further information can be found at www.exide.com

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Voting announcement: "Which way you would like ReactOS to go?"
by Aleksey Bragin 09 Feb '06

09 Feb '06

Subject: Which way you would like ReactOS to go? Proposed by: fireball Days of discussion: 7 Days of voting: 7 Proposal: Two plans for further development are being proposed, Plan A - "current", Plan B - "proposed" Rationale: - Further information is available in the Votings forum. Note to readers: Only developers can take part in the voting. Thanks, Aleksey Bragin.

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RE: [ros-dev] Bug: The calculator of ROS calculates wrong
by Murphy, Ged (Bolton) 09 Feb '06

09 Feb '06

Realistically, 3 + + should give a syntax error as it's not a valid mathematical equation. Anything generated from this equation is undefined. I know some calculators use hitting the + button as a trigger to calculate anything in memory. Looking at the Windows calculator, it seems to take a number then a operand as valid syntax to use the previous number as post number. Thus '3 +' = 6 '3 -' = 0 '3 *' = 9 Any further operand cancels out the previous. Thus: '3 + + + + - - - - * * *' is equivalent to '3 *' = 9 Strange .... -----Original Message----- From: Brian [mailto:briandabrain@gmail.com] Sent: 08 February 2006 23:21 To: ReactOS Development List Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Bug: The calculator of ROS calculates wrong just a thought... shouldn't 3,+,+ in calculator produce 6... brian friend of ReactOS ************************************************************************ The information contained in this message or any of its attachments is confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. The views expressed may not be company policy, but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact postmaster(a)exideuk.co.uk <mailto:postmaster@exideuk.co.uk> and then delete this message. Exide Technologies is an industrial and transportation battery producer and recycler with operations in 89 countries. Further information can be found at www.exide.com

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What Happened
by Rick Langschultz 09 Feb '06

09 Feb '06

I have a question: Where is everyone on the list. I have only received a few mailing list posts in the past couple of days. I know that there has been a scandle as of late, but does that stop mailing list posting? What is the deal?

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Bug: The calculator of ROS calculates wrong
by theUser BL 08 Feb '06

08 Feb '06

Is it an error of ROS or an error of WINE? The Wine-Calculator is every time one too high. 3 + 7 = 11 in the calculator and so on. But it comes already after the "+" or "*" was pressed. After [3] + [+] there stands 4 in the display. Or is it an error of QEmu? I don't know. Only to mentioned it. I know that you have at the moment no time for it, because you are in progress of oversearching your code. Greatings theuserbl

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Re: [ros-dev] What Happened
by Maarten Bosma 08 Feb '06

08 Feb '06

I think the existence of this mailing list has realy been revealed on ros-dev before. Maarten Bosma Ged Murphy wrote: > Maarten Bosma wrote: > >> Rick Langschultz wrote: >> >>> I have a question: >>> >>> Where is everyone on the list. I have only received a few mailing list posts in the past couple of days. I know that there has been a scandle as of late, but does that stop mailing list posting? What is the deal? >> >> >> >> I think I can solve that puzzle. Since that scandal we got a private mailing list just for developers. ;) >> > > I don't think that was meant to be public knowledge. People will think we have something to hide now. >

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Re: [ros-priv] OT: uni project
by Maarten Bosma 08 Feb '06

08 Feb '06

Ged Murphy wrote: >> good idea - a paint(brush) clone >> [..] > > Yeah, it's a nice idea. :) > Certainly worth considering. I don't think that is what ReactOS needs at it's current state. But that's just my opinion. > Other thoughts were taking on the cache manager I have heard that this is one of the hardest part of ReactOS and also the cache manager rewrite was already done so far. (However I don't know how much of it will be left after the audit.) > Keep em coming guys, I have until next Monday to decide. Maybe some kind of device driver, or a file system driver (for example Reiser4) although that is told to be hard too. Another idea of mine would be a web based job system. I think that one of the main problems of ReactOS is that we just say: "Here is the source, you can choose a part to work on. Have fun !". I know that we got Bugzilla, but you have to admit that it has not really proven to be a good place for new devs to get started. So a system, which lists tasks sorted by skills needed, would be a solution. Later such a system could be used for Bounties as well. But I don't know if it is a good project for you. Actually I just wanted to write down the idea before I forget about it again. > Thanks, > Ged. > Maarten Bosma

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FixedSys-fonts
by theUser BL 08 Feb '06

08 Feb '06

As I see in ROS 0.2.9 the font in noteopad looks a lot of different to the font which Microsoft used in its Notepad. In Win95/98 Microsoft used for Notepad FixedSys as font. In WinXP it used LucidaConsole. But what is with FixedSys? Is it completly new created by Microsoft? I think no. Have a look at the PC-system font. I mean the VGA-font which you see, if you start your computer or which you see, when FreeLoader runs. The PC-system have three standard fonts. The CGA font have 8x8 pixel. The EGA-font is a little bit bigger and the VGA-font is 8x16 pixel large. Today you see nearly only the VGA-fonts. There existing also some OpenSource programs, which draws this fonts on the screen: QEmu, DosBox, freeBASIC, etc. And if you compare this font with the Win95/Win98 fixedsys font, you will see, that letters like "A" and "O" are completly the same. And the other letters have mostly only the squiggle, curlicue, flourish or how it is called erased. If you erase it on letters like "B", "D", "F", "d" and so on, then the most majority of the letters looks completly like the fixedsys font of Win95/Win98. Only the "0" and some other letters looks then different. In WinXP the FixedSys font looks now different. I think there it is a completly new creation by Microsoft. It is also smaller (I think 7x14 or so) then the old fixedsys font. But I think, if anybody want to create a fixedsys font for ReactOS, then using the PC-system-fonts and removing the protruded lines, would be a good basis for the ReactOS fixedsys font. The fixedsys font is a little bit unique. It is not a extern TrueType font. It is integrated in the system. It is also not a vector-graphic font. It exists only in one size. There existing no bold or italic version of it. And it will not be antialiased. And if you remove all fonts of the Windows-System, Windows will use the fixedsys font insted. Greatings theuserbl

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Reverse Engineering Apps instead Windows
by theUser BL 08 Feb '06

08 Feb '06

Hi! I am not a programmer. So, it can be possible, that my idea is naive. You write here in the list, that the best would be, to make clean room reverse enginering, if an API isn't documented. But why you not disasseble the apps which you want to run on ROS instead of disassembling Windows? I see for it two advancements and one disadvancement. The advancements: 1. If you make clean room rev. eng., then you cut into halves the number of developer of ROS. Then only one half programs for the system. The other half writes documents. But if you disasseble the apps which running on Windows, then you are still allowed to publish the documentation of the API it used. You are not allowed to write then an application like that, what you have disassembled. But that is nothing you want. You want to write an OS, which can execute this app. And that is (hopefully) allowed. I don't know, if I am naive, but I think, if you see, that the program used a function void WindowsFunctuion (int, int, float); then you can write little test apps, with different values, to see what happens. So you don't need to disasseble Windows to look which happens. 2. If you make a clean room rev. eng. the people who write the document can make a mistake. Discribes the API wrong or not complete, so that the program which needs it still not runs. In this case the people who program, must say to the documenter, that he must do it again or better. But they can not communicate to much about it. Not to detailed. But this problem can be solved if you use the programs/drivers for Windows to disasseble insted of Windows itself. The only disadvantage I see is, that it can need more time to understand the code. If you "only" disassemble Windows, you comprehend the code in any time. But if you disassemble an app, it is at first the same. But if you have written the API for ROS and the app runs on ROS, then you must begin by zero by disassembling the next app, which don't run on ROS. And you must try to understand the code of this app and so on. So it can be possible, that this way takes longer, then clean room rev. eng. Windows direct. But I am not sure. Greatings theuserbl

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Ros-dev February 2006