Ros-dev

ros-dev@reactos.org

5789 discussions

by Dann B. Smith

Hi! I'm probably a non-person to most people here. This is my first foray into the mailing list as a submitter. If I may say a few things: First: No one has a RIGHT to anything. Mailing lists, archives, whatever. You only have whatever options the originators of IP or code decide to give. Second: For a fully open source project, private lists are Bad News. While they do allow sensitive ideas to be discussed in a more informal setting, they also give the options to have high-level decisions to be made without any community support. I've seen it saidf in this list that the "private" list developers talk abut things that don't affect other developers. WRONG! Anything that the "primary" developers talk about affects the entire development community. Otherwise, there's no reason to duscuss it at all. Third: While reverse engineering may be legal in Europe, it's only legal in certain circumstances in the US. Open source projects tend to be world-wide in scope. Thus, the most restrictive of laws MUST be applied so that no legal boundaries are crossed. In this case, it looks like the US has laws that do not exist elsewhere. Likewise, the US has one of the largest "markets" for software, so the US can't be discounted unless we wish to develop a Europe-only OS. Thus, no matter what, we have to follow the restrictive US laws on reverse engineering. Despite any personal feelings, laws must be upheld. Fourth: Re: dirty laundry. This is almost a non-starter. Yes, some things were said that caused a bit of an uproar. Yes, the project is being held up in some respects. On the other hand, we have enough people here who care enough to give voice to their opinions AND who care enough to see the project succeed that the idea that "dirty laundry" being aired in public being a bad thing is absurd. The results say otherwise. Politics has NO place in an engineering project. None. Ever. Don't let the idea of politics creep in and kill an otherwise wonderful thing. Fifth: Personal attacks here are without doubt, worthless. This is a list for developers, coders, and engineers. To call someone's attitude ridiculous goes right back into my previous statement about politics. Sixth: I would like to thank you all for reading my post, whether you agree or not. In the end, I speak for no one but myself, and you can take what I say however you want. Dann Smith Dallas, TX, US -----Original Message----- From: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.org [mailto:ros-dev-bounces@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Rick Langschultz Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 6:27 PM To: ReactOS Development List Subject: Re: [ros-dev] What Happened Don't get me wrong, reactos is a great programming idea. The way some people do things is not necessarily what the community would want. As a long term web developer I had an interest in VFS implementation of NTFS over FAT or other filesystem. Creating a private mailing list not available to the community restricts information from getting to developers that want to continue to develop reactos, whether they commit or not. Everyone has the right to develop what they think ReactOS needs. Personally I think ReactOS needs stable Networking, a more stable and secure filesystem, and service implementation. I also think that building a universal install disk would be great -- install on PowerPC, intel, arm, all on one cd would be great. I am not willing to give up on programming projects so I will continue developing code, but when the audit is complete I just hope 99% of the community is there to back ReactOS up... On Feb 8, 2006, at 4:05 PM, Ged Murphy wrote: > Rick Langschultz wrote: >> "The ReactOS(r) project is dedicated to making Free Software >> available to everyone by providing a ground-up implementation of a >> Microsoft Windows(r) XP compatible operating system." Why not say I >> am sorry ReactOS is off limits to you, the community, because people >> steal, cheat and lie. It is said that good programmers steal code, >> and great programmers know whose code to steal... >> Stealing M$ code is obviously not the wisest choice... >> >> I will continue to develop my own personal ReactOS code but I don't >> think I will contribute it to ReactOS. My implementation of the NT >> VFS over FAT will be rolled into a new project. And be able to be >> downloaded by ROS developers and community members. >> >> Ridiculous... > > As is your attitude ... > > The ReactOS developers have spent thousands upon thousands of hours > writing a free operating system for the world to use. > It has become so large now, that the inner workings are becoming > business like, and measures must be put into place to deal with this. > If you can't accept that developers need a place where they can > discuss topics, have arguments and sort out issues, out of the public > eye then that's your problem. I'm positive Linux and BSD have > somewhere where developers can discuss issues, as do most other large > (and even small) projects Maybe we should take minutes of any > telephone conversations we have and post those too? > > I for one am glad you won't be committing any code. You attitude > sounds like it would generate more problems than it's worth. > _______________________________________________ > Ros-dev mailing list > Ros-dev(a)reactos.org > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev(a)reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

19 years, 4 months

White Paper outdated ?

by Maarten Bosma

Our Withe Paper on http://www.reactos.org/xhtml/en/dev_whitepaper.html says > The original target for ReactOS, with regards to driver and application > compatibility, was Microsoft Windows NT 4.0. Since then, Microsoft > Windows 2000 and Windows XP have been released. Microsoft Windows 2000 > and Windows XP are both descendants of Windows NT. As such we can > gradually shift our compatibility target without worrying about the > architecture changing too much. In fact, internally, Windows 2000 > reports version information as Windows 5.0 and Windows XP as Windows > 5.1. The ReactOS team have decided to maintain Windows NT 4.0 as the > official compatibility target. This is because most of the resources, > articles and books on Windows NT/2000/XP technology are written for > Windows NT 4.0. This does not mean that features present in later > versions of Windows NT based operating systems will not be implemented > in ReactOS. Since we changed the reported version to Windows 2000, i'd say that is not true anymore is it ? Maarten Bosma

19 years, 4 months

rbuild XML processing

by Martin Fuchs

Hi, as you may know rbuild uses its own XML reading routines independent from any existing XML parser. This means there is missing some functionality we could get using a "real" XML parser: - no real syntax and hierarchy check of XML data - no UTF-8 support I am working on integrating Expat (the XML parser used for example in ROS Explorer) into rbuild. This is currently only an experiment just for fun - independent from ReactOS. I may use this rbuild derived build system for some private projects. Is there any interest to include Expat into the ReactOS version of rbuild? Regards, Martin

19 years, 4 months

RE: [ros-dev] What Happened--It Happened Lets Get To Work.

by Peter Dolding

Reverse engineering. USA states clear rules. A person who pulls appear the code cannot take part in creating the new code or device. Ie Document how it work. This rule does not change where ever you are. Reverse engineering cases have been fort and lost in most countries because developer not been able that they did not copy X section of code directly from what they were Reverse engineering. Ie since the code matched close enough it was pick since they had seen inside the program they copied and then tried to hide it. USA method prevents this. The coder never saw inside the program so it must be a fluke. Legal or not is not the issue it if you can prove that you have not breached copyright in a court of law. Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) Has never been tested in a court of law. Australian Government had something simpler for about two months since then fair use clauses have been added allowing reverse engineering and other methods of bypass with restrictions of course you cannot set out with the reason bar to break DRM but setting out to bypass to allow legal backups or for compatibility is fine or to bypass some other forms of stupidity. Ie region codes fall into stupidity. I by a legal copy of something bring it home then cannot play it that is stupidity. DRM is not allowed to create trade barriers if so it illegal so completely open to attack. Simple example provide it. Completely Open Source Player. Linux kernel ... Only part closed kinda was a public key. The license on the key was a killer. [quote] You here by agree to use only approved software on any machine that is use with this public key. No existing or third party data allowed on the playing device along with the public key except for approved software and file created by approved software as part of approved software operation. [/quote] Now a pirate that does not care about the license does not have to format their computer to watch the video. Law abiding person has to. Note approved software only contains a player not a converter. Pirate is free do what they like and law abiding is hurt majorly. The addon's in Australia would allow above to be got around legally. Just give this to your government. They realize there is a flaw in the DMCA and its not friendly. We have a mess. Fighting over what rules apply here apply there solve nothing. Laws that have not been to court may or may not hold. Lets take a really good look at the source tree. -Insert new version of externally source sections. Leave documentation so next update of this section is simpler. Note my Zlib patch posted to ros-dev is a requirement 1.1.4 has known security problems. Most likely there are more. -Locate sections that need documentation written. Rbuild is one of these things that needs documentation for new developers. It confused the heck out of me. I am not a documentation writer. I woffle to much and suffer from dislexer so sometime documentation I can read no one else can(yes it can pass a grammar and spell checker). -Find features that external libs need added to improve them inside Reactos to produce a better Reactos. Mesa could do with a opengl version change option. Ie no hardware accel and low processor user drop it back to version 1.2 opengl. Ie adjustable 1.2 takes a lot less process to render than 1.5. Developers could work on adding these features while main tree is completing audit. Developers with nothing to do get upset. I guess most of the developers in Reactos that this first time they have had to handle a Audit. Key to handling a Audit effectively is not to remain frozen at the same point in time. But to move forward in the process of Auditing. If have access to external developers get them working on parts that will be required in future as soon as able normally requiring feature requests. Peter Dolding

19 years, 4 months

RE: What Happened

by David Eckert

Allow me to just put it this way, reverse engineering IS illegal, HOWEVER even Microsoft reverse-engingeers stuff that they want to know how it works and to write drivers/etc for, so I still don't see the point of why anyone would have a problem, it's not like ReactOS is the first to utilize reverse-engineering practices to learn something, and secondly I'd like to point out by the information I have studied, ReactOS DOESN'T have Windows source code in it (at least by the current facts, no) it was suspected that so due to a certain crash that looked similar in terms of debugging very identicle to Windows. -- -David W. Eckert

19 years, 4 months

The zlib update from 1.1.4 to 1.2.3

by Peter Dolding

Get zlib 1.2.3 extact to a directory. Apply patch to that directory with normal bzcat zlibreactos.diff.bz2 | patch -p1 Read the README.ROS please edit as required. Me English don't mix. Made attempt at instructions for next updater of that section. I don't mind if it gets deleted if my English is to bad. When happy delete the old zlib dir and replace with the zlib 1.2.3 directory. If liked update to svn. As far as I can see it give no problems with Reactos 0.2.9. After in svn no need to audit if you look closely their is only one minor change other than that is zlib-1.2.3. Clean code. Peter Dolding

19 years, 4 months

FW: hi we have translated the explorer of React OS ...........

by Ge van Geldorp

Forwarded from ros-translate to ros-dev _____ From: mailman-bounces(a)reactos.org [mailto:mailman-bounces@reactos.org] On Behalf Of banglasoft Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 03:06 To: ros-translate-owner(a)reactos.org Subject: hi we have translated the explorer of React OS ........... hi gvg and other React OS developers, we have translated the React OS explorer in bangla. here is a screen shot attached with this mail. now we r looking forward to hearing from u people. if u give us the permition than we will translate the whole React OS. we think if some one translate the React OS in Bangla then this definitely will be a grate improvement for the React OS. React OS will be more femous then windows OS amoung the bangla speaking people. we r waiting for u r reply. -banglasoft.

19 years, 4 months

Re: [ros-dev] FW: hi we have translated the explorer of React OS ...........

by theUser BL

> we have translated the React OS explorer in bangla. here is a screen >shot >attached with this mail. now we r looking forward to hearing from u people. >if u give us the permition than we will translate the whole React OS. we >think if some one translate the React OS in Bangla then this definitely >will >be a grate improvement for the React OS. React OS will be more femous then >windows OS amoung the bangla speaking people. Nice. I know only that for Java is at http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/Appendix.C.html http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/Appendix.C2.html http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/Appendix.C3.html http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/Appendix.C4.html http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/Appendix.C5.html a side of different translations. It describes the standard translations for the Java-specification. So I think they can be used. GNU Classpath makes also use of the there discribes LookAndFeel. And at http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gtp/style-guides/ are GNOME translation guidelines. (in the pdf-files) And here are more of the GNOME thing: http://developer.gnome.org/doc/tutorials/gnome-i18n/developer.html http://developer.gnome.org/documents/style-guide/wordlist.html Greatings theuserbl

19 years, 4 months

RE: [ros-dev] RE: What Happened

by Murphy, Ged (Bolton)

Carlo J. Calica wrote: > I don't remember reading that on this list. The public > allegations were: > wide spread "questionable" reverse engineering practices, and > devs looking > at leaked code. There were many allegations thrown about. One of the first places for something to appear was our own forums in which the post was titled something along the lines of "ReactOS contains MS leaked source code" (I don't remember the exact wording). I picked that one because it was completely untrue and unfounded. I was just using it as an example of how something untrue can escalate into something damaging. > > > Now, if this mail was received privately, we could have > dealt with the > > issue internally and avoided all this mess. Development would have > > continued whilst we resolved any potential issues. For the > community and > > the project as a whole, which would you consider to be the > better option? > > > Pretending issues don't exist won't make them go away. The resolution > shouldn't change if discussed in private or public. I never once said they would. I don't know where you got that from. The way something is handled can vary greatly dependant on the circumstances, but that doesn't avoid the fact that the issue remains and must be dealt with. > Maybe development > could have continued during a code review, but then the code > review would > take much longer and may never be completed. There might > never have been > the clarification on reverse engineering techniques. As a > potential user > and project proponent, I am VERY happy with the whistle > blowing and the > public response. ReactOS IS stronger after this setback. > Now you have a > good IP policy that is defensible. We don't have a valid IP Policy at the moment. I also fail to see how a project on the edge of closing and divided developers is stronger. > PLEASE reconsider the private list. Failing that, members of > the list, move > public topics here. We DO appreciate it. It IS for the good of the > project. Public topics are _not_ discussed on the private list. In all honesty, very little is discussed on the private list. This is just another example of something being blown out of proportion. Developers have been having private discussions since the project started about 8 years ago, however they are few and far between. It's just that now instead of using private emails exclusively, a mailing list has been set up for convenience. Nothing has changed. I'm sure members of the community who are non-developers also do the same. I don't ask that they discuss their issues on the public mailing list either. > Don't feel the need to respond. I just wanted to provide an alternate > viewpoint. This topic is very much opinion. I doubt you'll > be able to > change mine and I may be unable to change yours. I am nothing but an > interested observer, you owe me nothing. Thanks for hearing me out. All views are fully welcome, and valid. This project belongs to everyone. Ged. ************************************************************************ The information contained in this message or any of its attachments is confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. The views expressed may not be company policy, but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact postmaster(a)exideuk.co.uk <mailto:postmaster@exideuk.co.uk> and then delete this message. Exide Technologies is an industrial and transportation battery producer and recycler with operations in 89 countries. Further information can be found at www.exide.com

19 years, 4 months

RE: [ros-dev] What Happened

by Murphy, Ged (Bolton)

Rick Langschultz wrote: > Creating a private mailing list > not available to the community restricts information from getting to > developers that want to continue to develop reactos, whether they > commit or not. The private mailing list has nothing to do with development and certainly contains no information that could be deemed useful towards the development of ROS. It's just somewhere developers can discuss sensitive issues without worrying about setting a an exponential bomb off. All projects have their problems. It's much better for both the project and community as a whole if these problems aren't broadcast worldwide. We used to use personal emails or MSN, this just takes over that role making it easier and quicker. I'll give you an example, take the recent allegations of leaked MS source code in the ReactOS repository. These allegations completely were untrue, however as soon as this found it's way onto the public mailing list, drastic and maybe over reactive actions were taken. This email has single handidly stopped all development of ReactOS for the past 2 weeks and has the potential of holding the project up for a year or two. It's safe to say the project has been in trouble of dying off completely. Now, if this mail was received privately, we could have dealt with the issue internally and avoided all this mess. Development would have continued whilst we resolved any potential issues. For the community and the project as a whole, which would you consider to be the better option? All projects have their problems, you just never hear about them because they aren't made public. There is nothing to be gained by hanging out your dirty linen in public. Ged. ************************************************************************ The information contained in this message or any of its attachments is confidential and is intended for the exclusive use of the addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. The views expressed may not be company policy, but the personal views of the originator. If you are not the addressee, any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other dissemination or use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact postmaster(a)exideuk.co.uk <mailto:postmaster@exideuk.co.uk> and then delete this message. Exide Technologies is an industrial and transportation battery producer and recycler with operations in 89 countries. Further information can be found at www.exide.com

19 years, 4 months

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