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Idea to save time in future - Language Support AndUse inReactos [non HTML - sorry for previous post]
by Radovan Skolnik 12 Mar '05

12 Mar '05

What you're saying is true however let me bring forth few points: 1. MUI only works one some Windows versions - true. However it runs basically on all Windows versions available today (Windows 98/Me is not your target) and Windows XP Home Edition as we all know is binary compatible with Windows XP so the limitation is only in version check. 2. You cannot get it free - true. But is this important? You cannog get Windows for free as well and still you're trying to clone it (rather succesfully). 3. Are you sure the API is not available? I believe it would be fairly easy to reasearch it even if it wasn't. 4. "So I think reactos must support least 2 langues at fly." Why limit yourself to 2 only? Why not 3 or 4? 5. "But why not deside which langues it will support when it compile." In my opinion this is answered very easily: a. Because you do not want to create ReactOS for power-users who are keen to compile stuff. If you need to compile it you'll scare newbies who just want the simplicity of their old Windows for free. b. Because it contradicts your initial requirement: "If you look at Amiga OS (Workbench 2.0 or higher) you can change the hole os langues when it was running." All in all: I think the M$ approach is really good one: scalable and easy to use. If you don't want to clone the API for whatever reason, clone the principle... Best regards Radovan Skolnik "Magnus Olsen" <magnus(a)itkonsult-olsen.com> Sent by: ros-dev-bounces(a)reactos.com 12.03.2005 14:57 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please respond to ReactOS Development List -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To "ReactOS Development List" <ros-dev(a)reactos.com> cc bcc Subject Re: [ros-dev] Idea to save time in future - Language Support AndUse inReactos The MUI only work on some windows version and you can not geting it free. or even the api. So I think reactos must support least 2 langues at fly. But why not deside which langues it will support when it compile. if you only want example english and french example you got it or you want all langues. you got it instead. when reactos are beign compile ? I have done a copy and paste from ms site http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/MUIFaq.mspx#MUIques1 read it about it here. What versions of Windows are supported by MUI? MUI was introduced in the Windows 2000 timeframe and is available for: a.. Windows 2000 Professional b.. Windows 2000 Server Family - often implemented in a Terminal Services environment c.. Windows XP Professional d.. Windows XP for Tablet PC e.. Windows Server 2003 Family f.. Windows XP Embedded MUI is not supported on consumer versions of Windows such as Windows 9x, Windows Me, and Windows XP Home Edition. What are the system requirements of Windows MUI? MUI is an add-on to the English version of Windows XP Professional and Windows 2000 family of operating systems, and will not install on localized versions of Windows XP/2000 or on Windows XP Home Edition. Every additional language installed will require approximately 115 MB extra disk space for Windows XP, 45MB for Windows 2000; East Asian language support requires an additional 250 MB. How can I acquire Windows MUI? The Windows XP/2000 MUI is sold only through Volume Licensing programs such as the Microsoft Open License Program (MOLP / Open), Select, and Enterprise agreement (or with a new computer as an OEM version at customer request). It is not available through retail channels. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Radovan Skolnik" <Radovan_Skolnik(a)tempest.sk> To: <ros-dev(a)reactos.com> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 1:40 PM Subject: RE: [ros-dev] Idea to save time in future - Language Support AndUse inReactos > Hello guuys (and girls if any out there)! > > Until now I have been watching the development of ReactOS with great > interest but as a not-so-great C/C++ programmer (especially for kernel > stuff) I felt no urge to add my (for you would be worthless) comments :-) > However the discussion about localizing ReactOS struck me because I think > there's one thing in/for M$ Windows/Office you probably don't know about > that already handles this. It is called MUI (Multilingual User Interface > Pack) - read about it here: > http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/MUIFaq.mspx What it does is > that it adds another combo box to Regional Settings in Control Panel and > each user can choose language to its liking (from those installed of > course). I can have a look at install media for few languages but as far as > I remember it is only bunch of .inf & .dll (probably resources) files. So I > believe there is indeed an API to achieve this. So if you're aiming for > maximum compatibility with original Windows (whatever version) you should > probably consider this approach. I'm home and sick now with flu but when I > get well I'll research the MUI media in more detailed way and let you > know... > > Best regards > > Radovan Skolnik > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Magnus Olsen magnus at itkonsult-olsen.com > > I want see driffnet langues in the dll and change langues on fly > instead compile a dll file for each langues. I am mising that feturtuer in > windows. > If you look at Amiga OS (Workbench 2.0 or higher) you can change the hole > os > langues > when it was running. in windows you are stuck with one langues. > > So I think it is good idea to compile all langues into all dll file. > then select in the os wich langues you want use. > > _______________________________________________ > Ros-dev mailing list > Ros-dev(a)reactos.com > http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev _______________________________________________ Ros-dev mailing list Ros-dev(a)reactos.com http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev

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Re: [ros-dev] Idea to save time in future - Language Support AndUse inReactos
by Radovan Skolnik 12 Mar '05

12 Mar '05

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RE: [ros-dev] Idea to save time in future - Language Support AndUse in Reactos
by Radovan Skolnik 12 Mar '05

12 Mar '05

Hello guuys (and girls if any out there)! Until now I have been watching the development of ReactOS with great interest but as a not-so-great C/C++ programmer (especially for kernel stuff) I felt no urge to add my (for you would be worthless) comments :-) However the discussion about localizing ReactOS struck me because I think there's one thing in/for M$ Windows/Office you probably don't know about that already handles this. It is called MUI (Multilingual User Interface Pack) - read about it here: http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/MUIFaq.mspx What it does is that it adds another combo box to Regional Settings in Control Panel and each user can choose language to its liking (from those installed of course). I can have a look at install media for few languages but as far as I remember it is only bunch of .inf & .dll (probably resources) files. So I believe there is indeed an API to achieve this. So if you're aiming for maximum compatibility with original Windows (whatever version) you should probably consider this approach. I'm home and sick now with flu but when I get well I'll research the MUI media in more detailed way and let you know... Best regards Radovan Skolnik ----- Original Message ----- From: Magnus Olsen magnus at itkonsult-olsen.com I want see driffnet langues in the dll and change langues on fly instead compile a dll file for each langues. I am mising that feturtuer in windows. If you look at Amiga OS (Workbench 2.0 or higher) you can change the hole os langues when it was running. in windows you are stuck with one langues. So I think it is good idea to compile all langues into all dll file. then select in the os wich langues you want use.

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Re: AW: [ros-dev] Saying To All
by Thomas Larsen 12 Mar '05

12 Mar '05

--- Rouven We�ling <rouven(a)rouvenwessling.de> wrote: Thomas Larsen schrieb: >4. Disam shell32 and scsiport.sys Theire where lot of places where it where identical > > >The M$ compiler and gcc is very different. If you compare the assembler >code which is compiled from the same source, you can found the same >functions bodies, but inside the functions there are many differences. >Some time ago, I've ported a simple driver for an eprom programer from >M$ tools to the ReactOS build system. At the start it hasn't worked, >because I forgot the stdcall attributes for some functions. The >reassembled code was very different. Their are not that big difference agre that scsiport is in c code when you compile it you get machine code right when you compare the "C CODE from scsiport.sys from REACTOS" with microsoft asm from ida pro it will list the functions used and the params used and what cases it used around in the code what internal function their are called not so hard BUT if you compare GNU Asm Vs. Ms Asm their will be a big diff. >5. Microsoft Source leak my friend just downloaded it i got parts of the >code what could be on my >1,33 mb floppy > > >If you was interessted to compare the ros and M$ code, >you have neverworked with a floppy. It is too simple to burn a cd or dvd. If i want to use a floppy i use a fucking floppy the parts i wanted to find out where small sections from shell32 and scsiport.sys just to get some invidence from winnt4.0 and i got those thing one my so simple floppy i could use a dvd a cdrom a harddisk but why i could be on my floppy >6. Saw scsiport.sys where 90% identical i layout and code and alittel of >shell32 > > >Some parts of scsiport are from me. I've never seen the scsiport sources >from M$. I'm not sure which code from M$ you know. Our scsiport is more >compatible with the NT4.0 one. I've test many scsi controller with its >NT 4.0 drivers (adaptect 2940, ataptec on asus p2d, dmx3194uw, diamond >fireport, tekram dc390, initio a100, some with different lsi chipset, >some with initio 950 chip set). I think M$ has lost the W2K sourcesand >not the NT4.0 one. Our scsiport is very different from W2k and it is >different from NT4.0. I've add a list of imported functions. Some >functions are very specific for the implemention. ReactOS doesn't use >IoFreeMdl, IoFreeIrp, the DeviceQueu functions and some others. Many >things may nearly the same, bcause they must implement the some >functions. Our implementation is different from M$. The different >imported functions shows this. You cannot find 90% identical, if you >compare our source with the M$ source. 1. You point is GNU Asm / Microsoft Asm is Different - SO 2. I Dont use a cdrom or other media when its so easy - SO i still use floppy for small items dont think you know that in denmark their are taxes on the cdroms 3. Saying that microsoft uses some function witch reactos dont; i leave up to you to take an asm program Ida Pro 4.7 remember debug info is a good start see the exports in Winnt 4.0 Scsiport Driver and the imports and come back to me.. then you can open your mouth once again.- else its it would be a waste of time writing to me Thomas __________ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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Re: [ros-dev] Saying To All
by Thomas Larsen 12 Mar '05

12 Mar '05

My english is sometimes poor For the first i give a shit public or not 1. One day i found reactos 2. Where looking on how you made reactos drivers and got (exiting=happy dont know how to spell) 3. Got Ida Disam in demo version 4. Disam shell32 and scsiport.sys Theire where lot of places where it where identical 5. Microsoft Source leak my friend just downloaded it i got parts of the code what could be on my 1,33 mb floppy 6. Saw scsiport.sys where 90% identical i layout and code and alittel of shell32 7. Wrote one mail or two dont remember saying it should newer have done so 8. Got many really unhappy ppl. email answers (they want to see the source and No i dident) 9. Talked with alot of ppl and i discover that i where not right 10. Worked on with reactos 11. The mail today ;I'm not quite sure what you're driving at, but are you saying you ;posess(ed) the leaked sources? And - by comparing it with ReactOS/WINE - ;we must have been tainted with it? I really hope I mistook that. i dident possess (in my word book its is "showing" the source) And no that where not what i meant to say Im Saying that i could just have changed email and name (NO Worry i dident do that) And my point only where give me a chance the only thing i want to is to help reactos.. but it seems that their are no chance so saying goodbye.. sry.. Thomas __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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Re: AW: [ros-dev] Saying To All
by Steven Edwards 12 Mar '05

12 Mar '05

Hi, --- Thomas Larsen <sikker2004(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > If i want to use a floppy > i use a fucking floppy the parts i wanted to find out where small sections from shell32 and > scsiport.sys just to get some invidence from winnt4.0 and i got those thing one my so simple > floppy i could use a dvd a cdrom a harddisk but why i could be on my floppy If I am reading this right, he is saying that he has looked at Microsoft source code and compared it to ReactOS. Is that right? Or just compared disassembled functions? In anycase, if Microsoft thinks there is a copyright violation in ReactOS please have them contact us and stop spaming the list. Thanks Steven __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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Re: Re: [ros-dev] Idea to save time in future - Language Support AndUse in Reactos
by rlangschultz＠cox.net 12 Mar '05

12 Mar '05

The Problem with this would be that the dll files or perhaps any compiled file would be large. Think of all the words that the German, English, French, portuguese, etc languages have. Doing this would make a binary executable be extremely large. I know that i only can use a limited amount of space with my vmware, bochs, and qemu images. about 256mbs is all. even if ReactOS did something like shell32.us-en.dll or shell32.us-es.dll or perhaps even shell32.1033.dll would be difficult because some executables come precompiled to use a staticly named dll file. I would think that adding every language would be very time consuming, and tax your disk space. > > From: "Magnus Olsen" <magnus(a)itkonsult-olsen.com> > Date: 2005/03/11 Fri PM 01:08:08 EST > To: "ReactOS Development List" <ros-dev(a)reactos.com> > Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Idea to save time in future - Language Support AndUse > in Reactos > > I want see driffnet langues in the dll and change langues on fly > instead compile a dll file for each langues. I am mising that feturtuer in > windows. > If you look at Amiga OS (Workbench 2.0 or higher) you can change the hole os > langues > when it was running. in windows you are stuck with one langues. > > So I think it is good idea to compile all langues into all dll file. > then select in the os wich langues you want use. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Weidenmueller" <w3seek(a)reactos.com> > To: "ReactOS Development List" <ros-dev(a)reactos.com> > Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 11:16 AM > Subject: Re: [ros-dev] Idea to save time in future - Language Support AndUse > in Reactos > > > > Thomas Larsen wrote: > > > > >Language Support And Use in Reactos > > > > > >Idea: Split the files by using config and only include whats needed by > dev and end user > > >goal: Saves time in compiling and get smaller fil sizes. > > > > > > > > Resource files usually compile pretty fast and are usually not that big > > unless they contain large bitmaps. > > > > >If not done imagine 256 languages in each file getting included then we > would get pretty large > > >files just see shell32.dll and its a waste both for the end users and us > it takes a while extra to > > >include all those extra langs > > > > > > > > I wouldn't consider it as a waste of space, applications that use other > > locales then work correctly and dialogs etc work in all the same > > language. It's been bugging me that for instance german applications > > that run on an english system are completely german except the message > > box buttons, common controls, .... > > > > >The Config File i Reactos Root path > > ># Which default language would you like to use > > ># Select Between: English:En, Danish:Dk, France:Fr etc. > > >DEFAULTOSLANG=Dk > > > > > >The Ressource.rc file in each paths > > >#if DEFAULTLANG > > >#include %DEFAULTLANG%.rc // Need to test if exist if not include en.rc a > littel app could check > > >for this it would be pretty fast else include english res > > >#else > > >#include "En.rc" > > >#endif > > > > > >Just an idea.. Thomas > > > > > > > > Specifying a default language is indeed good, however I don't think it's > > good to compile just with this chosen language. But that's just my > > personal opinion. > > > > Best Regards, > > Thomas > > _______________________________________________ > > Ros-dev mailing list > > Ros-dev(a)reactos.com > > http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Ros-dev mailing list > Ros-dev(a)reactos.com > http://reactos.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/ros-dev >

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Idea to save time in future - Language Support And Use in Reactos
by Thomas Larsen 11 Mar '05

11 Mar '05

Language Support And Use in Reactos Idea: Split the files by using config and only include whats needed by dev and end user goal: Saves time in compiling and get smaller fil sizes. If not done imagine 256 languages in each file getting included then we would get pretty large files just see shell32.dll and its a waste both for the end users and us it takes a while extra to include all those extra langs The Config File i Reactos Root path # Which default language would you like to use # Select Between: English:En, Danish:Dk, France:Fr etc. DEFAULTOSLANG=Dk The Ressource.rc file in each paths #if DEFAULTLANG #include %DEFAULTLANG%.rc // Need to test if exist if not include en.rc a littel app could check for this it would be pretty fast else include english res #else #include "En.rc" #endif Just an idea.. Thomas Ps. alot of patches new files and translation on bugzilla if any want to use it. :-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

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Re: [ros-dev] Maybe Its All About Nothing
by Thomas Larsen 11 Mar '05

11 Mar '05

I Where pist that day from my point Illegal code in reactos in project i want to be in to Angry a took some maybe lille fast conclusions you just love to take old things up... or what.. Thomas __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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RE: [ros-cvs] CVS Update: rosapps
by Casper Hornstrup 11 Mar '05

11 Mar '05

> -----Original Message----- > From: ros-cvs-bounces(a)reactos.com > [mailto:ros-cvs-bounces@reactos.com] On Behalf Of Emanuele Aliberti > Sent: 1. december 2004 15:00 > To: ros-cvs(a)reactos.com > Subject: [ros-cvs] CVS Update: rosapps > > CVSROOT: /CVS/ReactOS > Module name: rosapps > Repository: rosapps/calc/ > Changes by: ea(a)mok.osexperts.com 04/12/01 14:59:52 > > Added files: > rosapps/calc/: .cvsignore > > Log message: Is it a CVS trick? Casper

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