Re: [ros-general] Ok guys...

[Jason Filby]

Martin Fuchs wrote:

>  I prefer MDI like in WINFILE, as it reduces the number
> of windows 
you
>  
> have to manage on your desktop. It packages them into one common
>
> frame window, so you don't need an extra app window for any open 
folder
>    
>  
I think that tabs, as in Mozilla, is a better solution.

Cheers
Jason


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

[Martin Fuchs]

>   Martin Fuchs wrote:
>  
> >  I prefer MDI like in WINFILE, as it reduces the
> > number of windows
> >  you have to manage on your desktop. It packages them into one
> >  common frame window, so you don't need an extra app window
> >  for any open folder
> >  
>  
>  I think that tabs, as in Mozilla, is a better solution. 
Well, but with tabs you can't use drag and drop to copy files as you
only see one child window at once. You have to use copy&paste
instead.

Regards,

   Martin

-- 
Martin Fuchs
martin-fuchs(a)gmx.net

GMX ProMail (250 MB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS, Virenschutz, 2,99 EUR/Monat...)
jetzt 3 Monate GRATIS + 3x DER SPIEGEL +++ http://www.gmx.net/derspiegel +++

[Michael]

And what about tabs + MDI, as in opera?

-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Von: ros-general-bounces(a)reactos.com
[mailto:[e-mail]] Im Auftrag von Martin Fuchs
Gesendet: Sonntag, 15. Februar 2004 16:22
An: ros-general(a)reactos.com
Betreff: Re: [ros-general] Ok guys...

>   Martin Fuchs wrote:
>  
> >  I prefer MDI like in WINFILE, as it reduces the
> > number of windows
> >  you have to manage on your desktop. It packages them into one
> >  common frame window, so you don't need an extra app window
> >  for any open folder
> >  
>  
>  I think that tabs, as in Mozilla, is a better solution. 
Well, but with tabs you can't use drag and drop to copy files as you
only see one child window at once. You have to use copy&paste
instead.

Regards,

   Martin

-- 
Martin Fuchs
martin-fuchs(a)gmx.net

GMX ProMail (250 MB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS, Virenschutz, 2,99 EUR/Monat...)
jetzt 3 Monate GRATIS + 3x DER SPIEGEL +++ http://www.gmx.net/derspiegel
+++

_______________________________________________
ros-general mailing list
ros-general(a)reactos.com
http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

[Martin Fuchs]

>   And what about tabs + MDI, as in opera? 
Mhh, yes. Would be a possible new feature.
If you want to give it a try.  ;-)

But I don't think this is what Richard and Jason had in their minds, is it?

What I also like with MDI is that I'm able to position two folder windows
side by side an compare their content by visual comparison.
This would of course also be possible with your MDI solution with tab
extension.

Regards,

   Martin

-- 
Martin Fuchs
martin-fuchs(a)gmx.net

GMX ProMail (250 MB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS, Virenschutz, 2,99 EUR/Monat...)
jetzt 3 Monate GRATIS + 3x DER SPIEGEL +++ http://www.gmx.net/derspiegel +++

[Robert Köpferl]

personally speaking, I like the desktop-windws solution of explorer
sometimes i have 10 of them open.

Martin Fuchs schrieb:

> >  Martin Fuchs
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >  I prefer MDI like in WINFILE, as it reduces the
> > > number of windows
> > > you have to manage on your desktop. It packages them into one
> > > common frame window, so you don't need an extra app window
> > > for any open folder
> > >  
> > I think that tabs, as in Mozilla, is a better solution. 
>  
>  
>  Well, but with tabs you can't use drag and drop to copy files as you
>  only see one child window at once. You have to use copy&paste
>  instead.
>  
>  Regards,
>  
>     Martin
>

[Richard Campbell]

This option could be a configurable option, the default could be non 
MDI, but the user could change to an MDI interface.

Robert Köpferl wrote:

>   personally speaking, I like the desktop-windws
> solution of explorer
>  sometimes i have 10 of them open.
>
>  Martin Fuchs schrieb:
>
> > >   Martin
> > > Fuchs wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >   I prefer MDI like in WINFILE, as it reduces the
> > > > number of windows
> > > >  you have to manage on your desktop. It packages them into one
> > > >  common frame window, so you don't need an extra app window
> > > >  for any open folder
> > > >  
> > >  I think that tabs, as in Mozilla, is a better solution. 
> >
> >
> >  Well, but with tabs you can't use drag and drop to copy files as you
> >  only see one child window at once. You have to use copy&paste
> >  instead.
> >
> >  Regards,
> >
> >     Martin
> >  
>  _______________________________________________
>  ros-general mailing list
>  ros-general(a)reactos.com
>  http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
>

[Andrew "Silver Blade" Greenwood]

And for this reason, I don't like tabs.

But as long as you could open folders in new windows by default, that'd be
fine.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Fuchs" <martin-fuchs(a)gmx.net>
To: <ros-general(a)reactos.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [ros-general] Ok guys...


> >   Martin Fuchs
> > wrote:
> >
> > >  I prefer MDI like in WINFILE, as it reduces the
> > > number of windows
> > >  you have to manage on your desktop. It packages them into one
> > >  common frame window, so you don't need an extra app window
> > >  for any open folder
> > >  
> >  I think that tabs, as in Mozilla, is a better solution. 
>  Well, but with tabs you can't use drag and drop to copy files as you
>  only see one child window at once. You have to use copy&paste
>  instead.
>
>  Regards,
>
>     Martin
>
>  --
>  Martin Fuchs
>  martin-fuchs(a)gmx.net
>
>  GMX ProMail (250 MB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS, Virenschutz, 2,99 EUR/Monat...)
>  jetzt 3 Monate GRATIS + 3x DER SPIEGEL +++ http://www.gmx.net/derspiegel 
+++
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  ros-general mailing list
>  ros-general(a)reactos.com
>  http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
>
>

[Jasper van de Gronde]

Actually you could drag and drop with tabs, just like you do when 
dragging and dropping via the taskbar (first hover over the tab you want 
to drop on until it opens, then drop on that window).

Martin Fuchs wrote:

> >  Martin Fuchs
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >  I prefer MDI like in WINFILE, as it reduces the
> > > number of windows
> > > you have to manage on your desktop. It packages them into one
> > > common frame window, so you don't need an extra app window
> > > for any open folder
> > >  
> > I think that tabs, as in Mozilla, is a better solution. 
>  
>  
>  Well, but with tabs you can't use drag and drop to copy files as you
>  only see one child window at once. You have to use copy&paste
>  instead.
>  
>  Regards,
>  
>     Martin
>

[Brian Palmer]

I think the tab itself should accept the drag and drop. I hate hovering
waiting for it to open...

On another note -- is multiple desktop support going to be added? One thing
I think MS missed out on and only partially got right in XP (with fast user
switching) is a multi-desktop aware shell. The tab grouping and hidden
notification icons are cool as well.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: ros-general-bounces(a)reactos.com
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Jasper van de Gronde
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2004 9:04 AM
To: ros-general(a)reactos.com
Subject: Re: [ros-general] Ok guys...

Actually you could drag and drop with tabs, just like you do when 
dragging and dropping via the taskbar (first hover over the tab you want 
to drop on until it opens, then drop on that window).

Martin Fuchs wrote:

> >  Martin Fuchs
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >  I prefer MDI like in WINFILE, as it reduces the
> > > number of windows
> > > you have to manage on your desktop. It packages them into one
> > > common frame window, so you don't need an extra app window
> > > for any open folder
> > >  
> > I think that tabs, as in Mozilla, is a better solution. 
>  
>  
>  Well, but with tabs you can't use drag and drop to copy files as you
>  only see one child window at once. You have to use copy&paste
>  instead.
>  
>  Regards,
>  
>     Martin
>   
_______________________________________________
ros-general mailing list
ros-general(a)reactos.com
http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

[Martin Fuchs]

On 15.02.2004 21:42:21 Brian Palmer wrote:
>   I think the tab itself should accept the drag and
> drop. I hate hovering
>  waiting for it to open...
>  
>  On another note -- is multiple desktop support going to be added? One thing
>  I think MS missed out on and only partially got right in XP (with fast user
>  switching) is a multi-desktop aware shell. The tab grouping and hidden
>  notification icons are cool as well. 
There is already basic multi desktop support in Explorer. It doesn't use
"true" desktops because that's not compatible with notification (aka tray)
icons. It simply hides any window not on the current desktop like XP's explorer does.

Regards,

   Martin

[ilmcuts]

Martin Fuchs wrote:

>  On 15.02.2004 21:42:21 Brian Palmer wrote:
>   
>
> >  I think the tab itself should accept the drag and
> > drop. I hate hovering
> > waiting for it to open...
> >
> > On another note -- is multiple desktop support going to be added? One thing
> > I think MS missed out on and only partially got right in XP (with fast user
> > switching) is a multi-desktop aware shell. The tab grouping and hidden
> > notification icons are cool as well.
> >     
> >  
> There is already basic multi desktop support in Explorer. It doesn't use
> "true" desktops because that's not compatible with notification (aka tray)
> icons. It simply hides any window not on the current desktop like XP's explorer does.
>  
There also are APIs such as CreateDesktop or SwitchDesktop, I believe 
those are what the VWM PowerToy uses. Note that iirc those are truly 
separate desktops though, ie. on each desktop there's a separate 
instance of the shell. Then again, given the list this is posted on, I 
probably just stated the obvious. ;)

[Martin Fuchs]

> >  There is
> > already basic multi desktop support in Explorer. It doesn't use 
> "true" desktops because that's not compatible with notification (aka tray)
>  icons. It simply hides any window not on the current desktop like XP's
>  explorer does.
> >   
>  
>  There also are APIs such as CreateDesktop or SwitchDesktop, I believe 
>  those are what the VWM PowerToy uses. Note that iirc those are truly 
>  separate desktops though, ie. on each desktop there's a separate 
>  instance of the shell. Then again, given the list this is posted on, I 
>  probably just stated the obvious. ;) 
I know. I treid to implement the multiple desktops using this functions,
(thats's what I called "true desktops") but had to see it isn't possible
to
get
it right this way. If you want, you can look into my explorer source code.
It's still there - just disabled. Using CreateDesktop() and SwitchDesktop()
shows the following problems:
- It's not possible to share the notification area among different desktops.
- If you want to launch programs from those additional desktops, it's not
enough to create a new thread per desktop, you have to launch an explicit
new explorer processes for each of the desktops.
- You can't (simply) move one application from one desktop to another.
(However it could be possible by using a thread-/DLL-injection technic,
I didn't try this.)

The XP powertoy desktop switcher also doesn't use this CreateDesktop()
API, it's also just hiding windows when switiching from one "desktop" to
another.

Regards,

   Martin

-- 
Martin Fuchs
martin-fuchs(a)gmx.net

GMX ProMail (250 MB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS, Virenschutz, 2,99 EUR/Monat...)
jetzt 3 Monate GRATIS + 3x DER SPIEGEL +++ http://www.gmx.net/derspiegel +++

[ilmcuts]

Martin Fuchs wrote:

>  Using CreateDesktop() and SwitchDesktop()
> shows the following problems:
> - It's not possible to share the notification area among different desktops.
> - If you want to launch programs from those additional desktops, it's not
> enough to create a new thread per desktop, you have to launch an explicit
> new explorer processes for each of the desktops.
> - You can't (simply) move one application from one desktop to another.
> (However it could be possible by using a thread-/DLL-injection technic,
> I didn't try this.)
>   
>  
The inability to move application windows is by design, desktops 
wouldn't count as a "secure object" otherwise. You can move threads 
across desktops, but only as long as they don't have windows and other 
similar things.

About sharing the tray, you could do this by creating a memory mapped 
file or some other kind of shared memory which holds the internal NID 
list. At least if you want to use separate instances of Explorer. If you 
just want a single instance it's easier to share data, but it's more 
difficult to implement the rest. =) You need to create one thread per 
desktop and duplicate all UI elements in all those threads. I have never 
tried to implement this particular scenario, but it appears to be 
possible. Personally I'd go the one-process-per-desktop route with 
shared memory.

Note that if you're just after VWM-style functionality, you don't really 
need to use those APIs. What Litestep does is simply moving the windows 
off-screen, for example 10000 pixels to the right. Except for some 
glitches with the recent XP Styles, this has worked fine since '97 or 
'98. I can point you to some GPL'ed implementations if you want; if you 
want to test the binaries go to www.litestep.net, register (requirement 
by the host, we don't complain for $0 hosting), and download the installer.

[Martin Fuchs]

>   The inability to move application windows is by
> design, desktops 
>  wouldn't count as a "secure object" otherwise. You can move threads 
>  across desktops, but only as long as they don't have windows and other 
>  similar things. 
Sure. But I would like to be able to implement this feature, so I choose
not to use the CreateDesktop() API.

>   About sharing the tray, you could do this by creating
> a memory mapped 
>  file or some other kind of shared memory which holds the internal NID 
>  list. At least if you want to use separate instances of Explorer. If you 
>  just want a single instance it's easier to share data, but it's more 
>  difficult to implement the rest. =) You need to create one thread per 
>  desktop and duplicate all UI elements in all those threads. I have never 
>  tried to implement this particular scenario, but it appears to be 
>  possible. Personally I'd go the one-process-per-desktop route with 
>  shared memory. 
Well - this may be possbible. But it sounds a bit complicated.
The approach to hide windows using SW_HIDE or move them somewhere
abroad into non-visibility is simple and effective.

>   Note that if you're just after VWM-style
> functionality, you don't really 
>  need to use those APIs. What Litestep does is simply moving the windows 
>  off-screen, for example 10000 pixels to the right. Except for some 
>  glitches with the recent XP Styles, this has worked fine since '97 or 
>  '98. I can point you to some GPL'ed implementations if you want; if you 
>  want to test the binaries go to www.litestep.net, register (requirement 
>  by the host, we don't complain for $0 hosting), and download the
>  installer. 
Well, my implementation also works already (if you don't count a few
bugs that are included), so I will leave it this way.

Regards,

  Martin

-- 
Martin Fuchs
martin-fuchs(a)gmx.net

GMX ProMail (250 MB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS, Virenschutz, 2,99 EUR/Monat...)
jetzt 3 Monate GRATIS + 3x DER SPIEGEL +++ http://www.gmx.net/derspiegel +++

[Michael]

Good Idea!
Perhaps we could add the drive-buttons as preloaded-tabs then?

-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Von: ros-general-bounces(a)reactos.com
[mailto:[e-mail]] Im Auftrag von Jason Filby
Gesendet: Sonntag, 15. Februar 2004 16:17
An: ros-general(a)reactos.com
Betreff: Re: [ros-general] Ok guys...

Martin Fuchs wrote:

>  I prefer MDI like in WINFILE, as it reduces the number
> of windows 
you
>  
> have to manage on your desktop. It packages them into one common
>
> frame window, so you don't need an extra app window for any open 
folder
>    
>  
I think that tabs, as in Mozilla, is a better solution.

Cheers
Jason


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
_______________________________________________
ros-general mailing list
ros-general(a)reactos.com
http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general