ros chatter

[Mark Grosberg]

Guido writes:
>   Boca Raton? Isn't that SPAM City? 
If I wouldn't go to jail I would probably shoot some of the spammers here.
There is more in Boca than just spam you know. In fact, the birthplace of
the PC (not that it was a great architecture) is a 5 minute walk from my
house.
Although lately it seems there is less and less tech here. Sigh.

[Rick Parrish]

Mark Grosberg wrote:
>  There is more in Boca than just spam you know. In fact,
> the birthplace of the PC (not that it was a great architecture) is a 5 minute walk from my
> house.
>  
(clears throat) *ahem*
That would be the birthplace of the IBM PC.  You know the one - Intel
8088 microprocessor with 64k DRAM, choice of monochrome or CGA graphics,
optional 160 kilobyte single-sided 5.25" floppy disk drive. Having been
involved with microcomputers since before IBM's entry into the market, I
feel obligated to point out that there were personal computers before
the IBM PC (like the Apple II, Atari 400/800, Commodore's C-64 and CBM
series, Timex Sinclair, and so many others).
Actually it *was* a great architecture because it was so open and easy
to duplicate. We've enjoyed commodity "beige box" pricing on most of our
hardware for most of the last two decades because of it.
Cheers,
Rick

[Mark Grosberg]

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Rick Parrish wrote:
>   That would be the birthplace of the IBM PC.  You know
> the one - Intel
>  8088 microprocessor with 64k DRAM, choice of monochrome or CGA graphics, 
As somebody who cut his teath on the 6502 I can say I am well aware
of that... However, I tend to use the term PC as only "IBM PC" and the
term computer for everything else. I am certainly no lover of that
architecture, the electrically ugly ISA bus, 4-bit latch DMA hacks, and
inept firmware that is the PC.
>   Actually it *was* a great architecture because it was
> so open and easy
>  to duplicate. We've enjoyed commodity "beige box" pricing on most of our
>  hardware for most of the last two decades because of it. 
I dunno. It may have been open, but it certainly wasn't good. Electrically
the ISA bus had problems (which don't show up at 8MHz -- but the layout of
the signals on the connector sure cause problems); the BIOS is pretty
dumb. Had it been designed correctly we could have had multi-tasking in
8086 real mode... The DMA hacks on a PC are only now being somewhat
removed.
The flaws in that system architecture have been kept around far too long.
Actually, I use Apple & Sun hardware at home (and mostly Sun 4m's for the
Sun's), so PC hardware isn't helping me much with cost. PCI is nice but
really came out of a somewhat unexpected area at Intel and is amazingly
portable and clean -- in partiuclar the clever use of reflection for
switching.
But the IBM Boca Plant housed many other projects besides the PC. In
particular I happen to posess the sign that was at the front hallway: "The
Home of OS/2" -- I passed on the "Birthplace of the PC" sign below it. ;-)
And I was certainly a big OS/2 fan back in the day (the workplace shell is
far superior to Windows Explorer, IMHO).
L8r,
Mark G.

[Rick Parrish]

Mark Grosberg wrote:
>  However, I tend to use the term PC as only "IBM
> PC" and the
> term computer for everything else.
>  
Yeah - that's what I was objecting to - our opions differ - no big deal.
I think now a-days "PC" means an Intel/Windows compatible computer as
opposed to "the" IBM PC.
>  I dunno. It may have been open, but it certainly
> wasn't good. Electrically the ISA bus had problems (which don't show up at 8MHz --
>  
I've had to resort to "Master Thevenin" on a few passive ISA bus
backplane projects.
>  but the layout of the signals on the connector sure
> cause problems); the BIOS is pretty dumb. Had it been designed correctly we could have had
> multi-tasking in 8086 real mode... The DMA hacks on a PC are only now being somewhat
> removed.
>  
Hey, at least it *had* DMA.
>  The flaws in that system architecture have been kept
> around far too long.
>  
Compatibility is a PITA - sort of an ironic footnote on the ROS list.
>  But the IBM Boca Plant housed many other projects
> besides the PC. In
> particular I happen to posess the sign that was at the front hallway: "The Home of
> OS/2" -- I passed on the "Birthplace of the PC" sign below it. ;-)
>  
Thanks Mark. At one point, I thought OS/2 was going to be "it" - boy was
I wrong. It's tough to be in the hardware and software markets while
trying to get other h/w makers to adopt your software.
Regards,
Rick

[Mark Grosberg]

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Rick Parrish wrote:
>   Compatibility is a PITA - sort of an ironic footnote
> on the ROS list.
>  
[...]
>   Thanks Mark. At one point, I thought OS/2 was going to
> be "it" - boy was
>  I wrong. It's tough to be in the hardware and software markets while
>  trying to get other h/w makers to adopt your software. 
I guess I should be thankful that I've rarely had to worry about backwards
compatability. Until about 4 months ago I've spent my entire career
designing embedded systems. So I always had both hardware and software
under my control.
And boy do I wish I was back in embedded systems...