Hi,
I decide to join the mailing list to comment on this announcement and the way it has been treated. I've been following the development of this project and had a good hope it will develop into a full mature soon enough.
However the replies of Marius Przybylski and Zachary Gorden showed me that's far from being the case. Sorry you guys, you may not agree with the guy who did, but treating someone who's done something for the project with the kind of responses you had is highly immature and just plain stupid. It only harms the project and confort the opinion that's it's not a friendly environment to work in. Wonder why there isn't that many devs maybe?
I have little hope you'll actually understand that or act on it but we'll see...
Francois Prunier
Dear Francois,
all who is part of our community (those who made a significant or insignificant contribution to ReactOS, for example, or those who just think they belong to our community) are free to have and express their own view on the matter. Our project is all about freedom, and freedom of speech would be the first one.
Neither me, nor anyone else have stated any official opinion about your project so far, so no reason to do a drama out of nothing.
With the best regards, Aleksey Bragin.
On Sep 28, 2009, at 4:03 PM, François Prunier wrote:
Hi,
I decide to join the mailing list to comment on this announcement and the way it has been treated. I've been following the development of this project and had a good hope it will develop into a full mature soon enough.
However the replies of Marius Przybylski and Zachary Gorden showed me that's far from being the case. Sorry you guys, you may not agree with the guy who did, but treating someone who's done something for the project with the kind of responses you had is highly immature and just plain stupid. It only harms the project and confort the opinion that's it's not a friendly environment to work in. Wonder why there isn't that many devs maybe?
I have little hope you'll actually understand that or act on it but we'll see...
Francois Prunier
Hi Aleksey,
It's not my project at all (it's from *David Zaragoza)* and I'm related to this project in any way. My point was just that the responses to David's announcement were pretty harsh and I felt bad for this guy.
Now, whether or not including Python is good idea, I do *not* know or care to be honest. I'm not developing for reactos and whatever decision is taken in the end will be alright with me and I'll respect it.
But when someone makes the effort of trying to add something to the project, whether good or bad, it should be recognized, and maybe give some direction to the guy instead of a harsh reply.
Now don't get me wrong, I think most of you are doing a really good job, I'm just worried some might not be open minded enough sometimes. And at this stage of the project it's critical to get it going.
Best regards, Francois Prunier
2009/9/28 Aleksey Bragin aleksey@reactos.org
Dear Francois,
all who is part of our community (those who made a significant or insignificant contribution to ReactOS, for example, or those who just think they belong to our community) are free to have and express their own view on the matter. Our project is all about freedom, and freedom of speech would be the first one.
Neither me, nor anyone else have stated any official opinion about your project so far, so no reason to do a drama out of nothing.
With the best regards, Aleksey Bragin.
On Sep 28, 2009, at 4:03 PM, François Prunier wrote:
Hi,
I decide to join the mailing list to comment on this announcement and the way it has been treated. I've been following the development of this project and had a good hope it will develop into a full mature soon enough.
However the replies of Marius Przybylski and Zachary Gorden showed me that's far from being the case. Sorry you guys, you may not agree with the guy who did, but treating someone who's done something for the project with the kind of responses you had is highly immature and just plain stupid. It only harms the project and confort the opinion that's it's not a friendly environment to work in. Wonder why there isn't that many devs maybe?
I have little hope you'll actually understand that or act on it but we'll see...
Francois Prunier
Ros-general mailing list Ros-general@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
Could you point out this harsh reply?
Im really failing to see any part of this discussion which could be deemed as being overly harsh.
In reality, this is a public mailing list which we (the reactos team) do not moderate in any way.
If anyone is sensitive to negative comments of any sort, whether they be against reactos, for reactos or against any other interest people may have, then I suggest you moderate yourselves in whatever way best suits you. Whether that be for inappropriate language, personal infringements or just your own personal offences, its not something we cannot handle personally. One persons question is another persons upset.
Regards,
Ged.
From: ros-general-bounces@reactos.org [mailto:ros-general-bounces@reactos.org] On Behalf Of François Prunier Sent: 04 October 2009 05:39 To: ReactOS General List Subject: Re: [ros-general] Reaction project announcement
Hi Aleksey,
It's not my project at all (it's from David Zaragoza) and I'm related to this project in any way. My point was just that the responses to David's announcement were pretty harsh and I felt bad for this guy.
Now, whether or not including Python is good idea, I do *not* know or care to be honest. I'm not developing for reactos and whatever decision is taken in the end will be alright with me and I'll respect it.
But when someone makes the effort of trying to add something to the project, whether good or bad, it should be recognized, and maybe give some direction to the guy instead of a harsh reply.
Now don't get me wrong, I think most of you are doing a really good job, I'm just worried some might not be open minded enough sometimes. And at this stage of the project it's critical to get it going.
Best regards, Francois Prunier
2009/9/28 Aleksey Bragin aleksey@reactos.org
Dear Francois,
all who is part of our community (those who made a significant or insignificant contribution to ReactOS, for example, or those who just think they belong to our community) are free to have and express their own view on the matter. Our project is all about freedom, and freedom of speech would be the first one.
Neither me, nor anyone else have stated any official opinion about your project so far, so no reason to do a drama out of nothing.
With the best regards, Aleksey Bragin.
On Sep 28, 2009, at 4:03 PM, François Prunier wrote:
Hi,
I decide to join the mailing list to comment on this announcement and the way it has been treated. I've been following the development of this project and had a good hope it will develop into a full mature soon enough.
However the replies of Marius Przybylski and Zachary Gorden showed me that's far from being the case. Sorry you guys, you may not agree with the guy who did, but treating someone who's done something for the project with the kind of responses you had is highly immature and just plain stupid. It only harms the project and confort the opinion that's it's not a friendly environment to work in. Wonder why there isn't that many devs maybe?
I have little hope you'll actually understand that or act on it but we'll see...
Francois Prunier
_______________________________________________ Ros-general mailing list Ros-general@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
Clearly that should have said its something we cannot handle personally.
A few too many I think. That new Stella 4 is great though, isnt it J
From: Ged Murphy [mailto:gedmurphy@gmail.com] Sent: 04 October 2009 07:03 To: 'ReactOS General List' Subject: RE: [ros-general] Reaction project announcement
Could you point out this harsh reply?
Im really failing to see any part of this discussion which could be deemed as being overly harsh.
In reality, this is a public mailing list which we (the reactos team) do not moderate in any way.
If anyone is sensitive to negative comments of any sort, whether they be against reactos, for reactos or against any other interest people may have, then I suggest you moderate yourselves in whatever way best suits you. Whether that be for inappropriate language, personal infringements or just your own personal offences, its not something we cannot handle personally. One persons question is another persons upset.
Regards,
Ged.
From: ros-general-bounces@reactos.org [mailto:ros-general-bounces@reactos.org] On Behalf Of François Prunier Sent: 04 October 2009 05:39 To: ReactOS General List Subject: Re: [ros-general] Reaction project announcement
Hi Aleksey,
It's not my project at all (it's from David Zaragoza) and I'm related to this project in any way. My point was just that the responses to David's announcement were pretty harsh and I felt bad for this guy.
Now, whether or not including Python is good idea, I do *not* know or care to be honest. I'm not developing for reactos and whatever decision is taken in the end will be alright with me and I'll respect it.
But when someone makes the effort of trying to add something to the project, whether good or bad, it should be recognized, and maybe give some direction to the guy instead of a harsh reply.
Now don't get me wrong, I think most of you are doing a really good job, I'm just worried some might not be open minded enough sometimes. And at this stage of the project it's critical to get it going.
Best regards, Francois Prunier
2009/9/28 Aleksey Bragin aleksey@reactos.org
Dear Francois,
all who is part of our community (those who made a significant or insignificant contribution to ReactOS, for example, or those who just think they belong to our community) are free to have and express their own view on the matter. Our project is all about freedom, and freedom of speech would be the first one.
Neither me, nor anyone else have stated any official opinion about your project so far, so no reason to do a drama out of nothing.
With the best regards, Aleksey Bragin.
On Sep 28, 2009, at 4:03 PM, François Prunier wrote:
Hi,
I decide to join the mailing list to comment on this announcement and the way it has been treated. I've been following the development of this project and had a good hope it will develop into a full mature soon enough.
However the replies of Marius Przybylski and Zachary Gorden showed me that's far from being the case. Sorry you guys, you may not agree with the guy who did, but treating someone who's done something for the project with the kind of responses you had is highly immature and just plain stupid. It only harms the project and confort the opinion that's it's not a friendly environment to work in. Wonder why there isn't that many devs maybe?
I have little hope you'll actually understand that or act on it but we'll see...
Francois Prunier
_______________________________________________ Ros-general mailing list Ros-general@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
Op 4-10-2009 6:39, François Prunier schreef:
Hi Aleksey,
It's not my project at all (it's from /David Zaragoza)/ and I'm related to this project in any way. My point was just that the responses to David's announcement were pretty harsh and I felt bad for this guy.
Now, whether or not including Python is good idea, I do *not* know or care to be honest. I'm not developing for reactos and whatever decision is taken in the end will be alright with me and I'll respect it.
But when someone makes the effort of trying to add something to the project, whether good or bad, it should be recognized, and maybe give some direction to the guy instead of a harsh reply.
Now don't get me wrong, I think most of you are doing a really good job, I'm just worried some might not be open minded enough sometimes. And at this stage of the project it's critical to get it going.
I've never read the original announcement of this Reaction project (where to find it?), nor the responses of it, but it seems to me that it's easier to include ReactOS into some distribution that you're making/releasing yourself, than trying to add 3rdparty programs/projects to the ReactOS sourcecode repository (which, if I remember correctly, prefers just C [MSVC/GCC) and in troublesome cases assembly [NASM?]). Downside is you'd have to synchronize regularly the updated ReactOS code into your own project.
On another subject..any news regarding the release of 0.3.11? A lot of work has been done since 0.3.10 but no idea if 0.3.11 would enable Firefox/Openoffice to work properly as originally planned.
Bernd
François Prunier schrieb:
Hi,
However the replies of Marius Przybylski and Zachary Gorden showed me that's far from being the case. Sorry you guys, you may not agree with the guy who did, but treating someone who's done something for the project with the kind of responses you had is highly immature and just plain stupid. It only harms the project and confort the opinion that's it's not a friendly
The replies of these two person was rather harsh. However, the anouncement of the Reaction project was welcomed by the majority of developers (at least I spoke to).
Francois Prunier
WBR, Johannes Anderwald
Am Montag 28 September 2009 15:47:50 schrieb Johannes Anderwald:
The replies of these two person was rather harsh. However, the anouncement of the Reaction project was welcomed by the majority of developers (at least I spoke to).
I would say it this way: To keep a specific technology like Python out of ReactOS is simply a matter of politics. Yes, politics. It would be rather wise to choose the technology which is most suitable, and when it comes to runtime environments, interpreters etc., it is very important to get as many of them as possible runnable on ReactOS. This will attract more developers and testers.
Yes, ReactOS is not Linux...but it still has one thing in common: It is targeted towards those who find Win*** too un-free and expensive.
Cheers J.R.
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Co godzine losujemy 15 000 z³! http://link.interia.pl/f2376
Hello all.
I have some thoughts about the initial criticism made concerning the use of Python. The use of any particular scripting language within the context of any operating system is the sole decision of the programmer and any subsequent adopters. On the other hand, it is important that React OS have some driving philosophy supporting it. If the purpose and philosophy of React OS tend to discourage certain practices, then its devotees will tend not to use these practices. Other users who don¹t care may contribute, instead, to the use of a wide variety of technologies, even if this does not adhere to the initial purpose of React OS.
I, for one, believe in the importance of adhering to the founding purpose and philosophy of the development environment in which I work. This is how I choose which environments to work in. In fact, this is a major reason for the the development of React OS. We will never, though, be able to prohibit the work of those who don¹t so adhere nor should we.
Whether Python ³adheres², I do not know. I am sure this question is subject to debate.
Regards,
David
David J. Pogoff djpogoff@complexnet.com Complex Programming Incorporated -------------------
Am Montag 28 September 2009 15:47:50 schrieb Johannes Anderwald:
The replies of these two person was rather harsh. However, the anouncement of the Reaction project was welcomed by the majority of developers (at least I spoke to).
I would say it this way: To keep a specific technology like Python out of ReactOS is simply a matter of politics. Yes, politics. It would be rather wise to choose the technology which is most suitable, and when it comes to runtime environments, interpreters etc., it is very important to get as many of them as possible runnable on ReactOS. This will attract more developers and testers.
Yes, ReactOS is not Linux...but it still has one thing in common: It is targeted towards those who find Win*** too un-free and expensive.
Cheers J.R.
Co godzine losujemy 15 000 z³! http://link.interia.pl/f2376
Ros-general mailing list Ros-general@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
ReactOS Mailing List
I'm not a developer, i'm just a follower of the community and enthusiast but allow me to outline why the decision to not include components that do not add to the compatibility with the Win32 platform is more than simple politics.
The way windows works is that it provides a solid OS that has the neccesary API's to accomodate a healthy ecosystem of third-party software. It also bends over backwards to enable such third party software to work. I feel that this emphasis on third party packages and maintaining this ecosystem is possibly the most important of Windows principles. This is not a principle of Linux, or rather the third party software ecosystem only really exists on a source code level. (I'm not counting community repositories as 'third party' I mean there are pretty much no packages that you can just download, install and run on any given linux flavour and version.)
That's just the way it works there; arguably it's more secure for Linux, but it lacks in many ways the flexibility of Windows. For example I cannot install the latest firefox or OpenOffice in ubuntu without potentially breaking something - instead I wait for the next release of ubuntu.
ReactOS attempts to provides a synthesis of the opensource values of Linux and this software flexibility of Windows.
There is a tension, however, when you look at the bigger picture. Microsoft is a principle developer for it's own platform, and will often bundle things in an 'integrated' manner within the OS. This, in a sense, defies the third-party philosophy that should be inherent with the platform. This may be less of a problem these days as developers and users are more aware, but it's still an issue.
ReactOS, it seems, attempts to get rid of this tension by harshly pushing back the line between OS and third-party software - no bundling of anything that isn''t neccesary to maintain that third-party ecosystem. This is not a bad thing as it allows this software flexibility to show its strength, but many who are used to the feature set of linux distros and editions of Windows are confused. It must be noted that just because ReactOS won't come with Python, or a media player, or a browser etc does not mean that they will not be available. Because of the software flexibility inherent in the platform, it will be a simple matter of downloading a package and running it.
There's also nothing that anyone can, or should, do to stop people distributing versions with software packages bundled or 'integrated' a la the Reaction project. It has been said in the past that such 'distros' would compromise reactos, creating a nightmare of mutually incompatible systems like we see in the Linux world. I counter that the nature of the platform is such that those that break compatibiltiy will neccesarily die out, and to restrict or condemn third party distros would in fact be damaging to the strength of a platform with such emphasis on third party software.
The decision to keep ReactOS pure has more to it than simple politics. It is a principled commitment to the purity of the platform. It, of course, could be associated with the childish anti-linux stance adopted by a minority of ReactOS community members, but they do not speak for the project as a whole and they should largely be ignored in favour of relevent criticisms and judgements about the roles of each platform.
Chris Monahan
Hi to All,
I just would like to express my feeling about the current little debate about including Python and such.
The thing that puts me off the most is the fact that the newest Windows and Linux versions/distros are all bundling a lot of software with their installations. Now being a advance uses for some time now, I have found a lot of software I like to use more that the standard stuff that comes with all the OS's. Now every time I install a new copy of Windows, I need to go and remove a lot of the stuff I don't use, because I found suitable replacements. For instance I use Winamp rather that Media Player, or Firefox rather than Internet Explorer (and recently have started using Chrome more often).
When you install a new OS the size of the installation astonish me everytime. I looked at Ubuntu that seems to be so nice according to everybody, but it uses almost 10Gig after installation. And look at Vista starting at 7Gig. I don't want all the gizmo's that come with them, yet I do not have the choice of installing them or not, I always have to go and remove them afterwards.
So what I expect from a decent OS is to support all the current hardware (not that I should come with the drivers, just to be able to work with the drivers) and to provide a platform that all my other software I like to use can run on.
I have a lot of PC's running at my house, and I use each one for different purposes, so having the same set of software on all of them is just taking up resources and slowing down the more important software I use on each.
I can't wait for ReactOS to start supporting more API calls or what ever is needed to allow me to run my everyday software.
Greatings,
Bernard du Toit
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote:
When you install a new OS the size of the installation astonish me everytime. I looked at Ubuntu that seems to be so nice according to everybody, but it uses almost 10Gig after installation.
Not that it tackles your piont but Ubuntu uses waaay less than 10GB. It comes on a 700mb disk. The requirements are: At least 4 GB of disk space (for full installation and swap space)
I think the default installation is below 3Gb I think.
Niels.
2009/9/29 Niels Egberts niels.egberts@gmail.com:
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote:
When you install a new OS the size of the installation astonish me everytime. I looked at Ubuntu that seems to be so nice according to everybody, but it uses almost 10Gig after installation.
Not that it tackles your piont but Ubuntu uses waaay less than 10GB. It comes on a 700mb disk. The requirements are: At least 4 GB of disk space (for full installation and swap space)
I think the default installation is below 3Gb I think.
Something like that, if you take the default full desktop install.
As for Windows, the point is entirely valid off course ;)
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote:
When you install a new OS the size of the installation astonish me everytime. I looked at Ubuntu that seems to be so nice according to everybody, but it uses almost 10Gig after installation.
Not that it tackles your piont but Ubuntu uses waaay less than 10GB. It comes on a 700mb disk. The requirements are: At least 4 GB of disk space (for full installation and swap space)
Thanks for correcting my mistake. I didn't mean to exaggerate, just didn't do research on the subject. I see most people report the installation at 3gig, with Gnome and KDE included about 5Gig.
I think the default installation is below 3Gb I think.
Niels.
I wanted to upgrade my Windows installations to Ubuntu about a year ago, but after hearing it needs that amount of space (I thought it would be less than 1Gig), I decided to stick to my Windows XP installations that Install to about 1.7Gig.
Thanks
Bernard
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to upgrade my Windows installations to Ubuntu about a year ago, but after hearing it needs that amount of space (I thought it would be less than 1Gig), I decided to stick to my Windows XP installations that Install to about 1.7Gig.
Thanks
Bernard
Just out of curiosity: Does that XP size include a full installation of OpenOffice? One of the few things I really don't like about Ubuntu is the fact that they include the full blown OO.org suit by default. Evolution is another beast that I usually remove 5 minutes after I finished installing the OS since it sucks and takes quite some space.
Cheers,
No this is a standard installation of Windows XP with nothing extra installed (and only the Windows folder). I just looked at an old laptop I installed XP to use as 'n gateway, and that installation is only 1Gig (Windows) and 100Mb (Program Files), nothing programs related installed. My File Server is at: 1.7Gig (Windows), Program files is 14Gig, quite a few things installed over time. On my other File server I used N-Lite to strip a lot out of windows so it's at: 850Mb (Windows) and 312Mb (Program Files), also have installed a lot of program files, and the setup of the n-lite windows is only 200Mb.
-----Original Message----- From: ros-general-bounces@reactos.org [mailto:ros-general-bounces@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Ivan Vodopiviz Sent: 29 September 2009 09:24 PM To: ReactOS General List Subject: Re: [ros-general] Keep it Clean
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to upgrade my Windows installations to Ubuntu about a year ago, but after hearing it needs that amount of space (I thought it would be less than 1Gig), I decided to stick to my Windows XP installations that Install to about 1.7Gig.
Thanks
Bernard
Just out of curiosity: Does that XP size include a full installation of OpenOffice? One of the few things I really don't like about Ubuntu is the fact that they include the full blown OO.org suit by default. Evolution is another beast that I usually remove 5 minutes after I finished installing the OS since it sucks and takes quite some space.
Cheers,
ros-general-bounces@reactos.org wrote on 09/29/2009 03:49:44 PM:
No this is a standard installation of Windows XP with nothing extra installed (and only the Windows folder). I just looked at an old laptop I installed XP to use as 'n gateway, and that installation is only 1Gig (Windows) and 100Mb (Program Files), nothing programs related installed. My File Server is at: 1.7Gig (Windows), Program files is 14Gig, quite a few things installed over time. On my other File server I used N-Lite to strip a lot out of windows so it's at: 850Mb (Windows) and 312Mb (Program Files), also have installed a lot of program files, and the setup of the n-lite windows is only 200Mb.
The point is that a Ubuntu install gives you *everything*: OS, browser, e-mail client, full Office suite, games, loads of utilities, etc. Windows doesn't. So, you're comparing apples to oranges.
If you want a slimmed down install, you might want to look into something like CentOS (or Debian).
What would be nice would be either a full-featured installer (so that you can pick and choose items), or an n-lite-like tool for Ubuntu. You may want to do some Googling for respinning or remastering Ubuntu.
Or check out Fedora: it gives you easy, n-lite tools for remixing it: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Remix
Tim Massey
-----Original Message----- From: ros-general-bounces@reactos.org [
mailto:ros-general-bounces@reactos.org
] On Behalf Of Ivan Vodopiviz Sent: 29 September 2009 09:24 PM To: ReactOS General List Subject: Re: [ros-general] Keep it Clean
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to upgrade my Windows installations to Ubuntu about a year
ago, but
after hearing it needs that amount of space (I thought it would beless
than
1Gig), I decided to stick to my Windows XP installations that Install
to
about 1.7Gig.
Thanks
Bernard
Just out of curiosity: Does that XP size include a full installation of OpenOffice? One of the few things I really don't like about Ubuntu is the fact that they include the full blown OO.org suit by default. Evolution is another beast that I usually remove 5 minutes after I finished installing the OS since it sucks and takes quite some space.
Cheers,
-- Iván Vodopiviz
Ros-general mailing list Ros-general@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
Ros-general mailing list Ros-general@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
The point is that a Ubuntu install gives you *everything*: OS, browser,
e-mail client, full Office suite, games, loads of utilities, etc. Windows
doesn't. So, you're comparing apples to oranges.
This definitely is a good point. If you look at it this way, Ubuntu is beating the hell out of Vista, since with Vista you still need to install everything else you need. And then it is wrong comparing Ubuntu with any other OS in terms of size.
If you want a slimmed down install, you might want to look into something
like CentOS (or Debian).
What would be nice would be either a full-featured installer (so that you
can pick and choose items), or an n-lite-like tool for Ubuntu. You may
want to do some Googling for respinning or remastering Ubuntu.
If ReactOS would ever consider adding applications to their installation I hope this will be their approach from the start.
Or check out Fedora: it gives you easy, n-lite tools for remixing it:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Remix
Will look into it. Thanks.
Bernard
(South Africa)
I think the whole point is that most distros (Linux, Windows, etc) try to accommodate the majority of users who are not computer literate. They just want to push a few buttons and everything is there. That is wonderful for your parents maybe and others who look at a PC with some suspicion. But yes there should be an option at install to indicate what kind of user you are (Novice, Nervous, Newbie, Power-User, etc) and it should then install accordingly.
My tuppence worth
Steve ________________________________
From: ros-general-bounces@reactos.org [mailto:ros-general-bounces@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Bernard Sent: 29 September 2009 11:53 To: 'ReactOS General List' Subject: Re: [ros-general] Keep it Clean
The point is that a Ubuntu install gives you *everything*: OS,
browser,
e-mail client, full Office suite, games, loads of utilities, etc.
Windows
doesn't. So, you're comparing apples to oranges.
This definitely is a good point. If you look at it this way, Ubuntu is beating the hell out of Vista, since with Vista you still need to install everything else you need. And then it is wrong comparing Ubuntu with any other OS in terms of size.
If you want a slimmed down install, you might want to look into something
like CentOS (or Debian).
What would be nice would be either a full-featured installer (so that you
can pick and choose items), or an n-lite-like tool for Ubuntu. You may
want to do some Googling for respinning or remastering Ubuntu.
If ReactOS would ever consider adding applications to their installation I hope this will be their approach from the start.
Or check out Fedora: it gives you easy, n-lite tools for remixing it:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Remix
Will look into it. Thanks.
Bernard
(South Africa)
This message is subject to Metropolitans disclaimer pertaining to electronic communications. To view the disclaimer please visit http://www.metropolitan.co.za/disclaimer.asp
If space is your worry and you will use it only as gateway / file server / whatever, try Damn Small Linux (http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/). 50 Mb and it's fully functional.
2009/9/29 Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com
No this is a standard installation of Windows XP with nothing extra installed (and only the Windows folder). I just looked at an old laptop I installed XP to use as 'n gateway, and that installation is only 1Gig (Windows) and 100Mb (Program Files), nothing programs related installed. My File Server is at: 1.7Gig (Windows), Program files is 14Gig, quite a few things installed over time. On my other File server I used N-Lite to strip a lot out of windows so it's at: 850Mb (Windows) and 312Mb (Program Files), also have installed a lot of program files, and the setup of the n-lite windows is only 200Mb.
-----Original Message----- From: ros-general-bounces@reactos.org [mailto: ros-general-bounces@reactos.org] On Behalf Of Ivan Vodopiviz Sent: 29 September 2009 09:24 PM To: ReactOS General List Subject: Re: [ros-general] Keep it Clean
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 4:17 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to upgrade my Windows installations to Ubuntu about a year ago,
but
after hearing it needs that amount of space (I thought it would be less
than
1Gig), I decided to stick to my Windows XP installations that Install to about 1.7Gig.
Thanks
Bernard
Just out of curiosity: Does that XP size include a full installation of OpenOffice? One of the few things I really don't like about Ubuntu is the fact that they include the full blown OO.org suit by default. Evolution is another beast that I usually remove 5 minutes after I finished installing the OS since it sucks and takes quite some space.
Cheers,
-- Iván Vodopiviz
Ros-general mailing list Ros-general@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
Ros-general mailing list Ros-general@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
I think it is important to ensure that you are actually comparing like for like, if comparisons are necessary, and not 'apples against oranges'. A 'normal' installation of Windows XP is basically just the operating system and a few tools and utilities to help use it in some basic ways. Yeah, it takes around a Gig or so but you are than going to want to install applications to be doing much usefull with it - and the way in which applications install under Windows impacts both the available space and the performance of the system badly. A 'bare bones' Ubuntu instalation will be somewhat smaller than that, depending upon just how far you want to go with optimising it. By default, Ubuntu will let you install a whole load of useful applications at the same time as you install the op system which of course will take up more space, but not really impact the prformance of the system. With storage space being so cheap these days, even 16Gb USB memory sticks cost hardly anything, most people make their choices based around functionality rather than size. Basically you one choice if you want to play games and experience all of the latest virus and spyware threats, and another choice if you are on a restricted budget but want a secure and efficient system to really get things done on. Like the motor manufacturers omit to say: 'You mileage might vary'.
Kevin Lawton(0161 654 8944 & 07973 303785 *kepla@btinternet.com & kepla56@hotmail.com
________________________________ From: Niels Egberts niels.egberts@gmail.com To: ReactOS General List ros-general@reactos.org Sent: Tuesday, 29 September, 2009 7:50:23 PM Subject: Re: [ros-general] Keep it Clean
On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Bernard bernarddt@gmail.com wrote: When
you install a new OS the size of the installation astonish me everytime. I looked at Ubuntu that seems to be so nice according to everybody, but it uses almost 10Gig after installation.
Not that it tackles your piont but Ubuntu uses waaay less than 10GB. It comes on a 700mb disk. The requirements are: At least 4 GB of disk space (for full installation and swap space)
I think the default installation is below 3Gb I think.
Niels.
Now I like this one. I seriously would love to see ReactOS be successful, and I'm no developer, but I can say that if we want this to be successful, then we need to take the winning features from the best of both worlds. Windows has the flexibility and user-friendliness, and Linux is free. So, put them together and you have the winning combination right? On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Chris Monahan < foreverwatcher@googlemail.com> wrote:
ReactOS Mailing List
I'm not a developer, i'm just a follower of the community and enthusiast but allow me to outline why the decision to not include components that do not add to the compatibility with the Win32 platform is more than simple politics.
The way windows works is that it provides a solid OS that has the neccesary API's to accomodate a healthy ecosystem of third-party software. It also bends over backwards to enable such third party software to work. I feel that this emphasis on third party packages and maintaining this ecosystem is possibly the most important of Windows principles. This is not a principle of Linux, or rather the third party software ecosystem only really exists on a source code level. (I'm not counting community repositories as 'third party' I mean there are pretty much no packages that you can just download, install and run on any given linux flavour and version.)
That's just the way it works there; arguably it's more secure for Linux, but it lacks in many ways the flexibility of Windows. For example I cannot install the latest firefox or OpenOffice in ubuntu without potentially breaking something - instead I wait for the next release of ubuntu.
ReactOS attempts to provides a synthesis of the opensource values of Linux and this software flexibility of Windows.
There is a tension, however, when you look at the bigger picture. Microsoft is a principle developer for it's own platform, and will often bundle things in an 'integrated' manner within the OS. This, in a sense, defies the third-party philosophy that should be inherent with the platform. This may be less of a problem these days as developers and users are more aware, but it's still an issue.
ReactOS, it seems, attempts to get rid of this tension by harshly pushing back the line between OS and third-party software - no bundling of anything that isn''t neccesary to maintain that third-party ecosystem. This is not a bad thing as it allows this software flexibility to show its strength, but many who are used to the feature set of linux distros and editions of Windows are confused. It must be noted that just because ReactOS won't come with Python, or a media player, or a browser etc does not mean that they will not be available. Because of the software flexibility inherent in the platform, it will be a simple matter of downloading a package and running it.
There's also nothing that anyone can, or should, do to stop people distributing versions with software packages bundled or 'integrated' a la the Reaction project. It has been said in the past that such 'distros' would compromise reactos, creating a nightmare of mutually incompatible systems like we see in the Linux world. I counter that the nature of the platform is such that those that break compatibiltiy will neccesarily die out, and to restrict or condemn third party distros would in fact be damaging to the strength of a platform with such emphasis on third party software.
The decision to keep ReactOS pure has more to it than simple politics. It is a principled commitment to the purity of the platform. It, of course, could be associated with the childish anti-linux stance adopted by a minority of ReactOS community members, but they do not speak for the project as a whole and they should largely be ignored in favour of relevent criticisms and judgements about the roles of each platform.
Chris Monahan
Ros-general mailing list Ros-general@reactos.org http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
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Aleksey Bragin -
Bernard -
Bernd Blaauw -
Chris Monahan -
David J. Pogoff -
Eduardo Menezes -
Frank Van Damme -
François Prunier -
Ged Murphy -
Ivan Vodopiviz -
Jacek Rużyczka -
Johannes Anderwald -
Kevin Lawton -
Niels Egberts -
Patrick Lopez -
Steve Walters -
Timothy J Massey