Ros-general October 2005

ros-general@reactos.org

50 participants
86 discussions

Correction Re: Issue 1. [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues]

by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au

Sorry again Richard. I forgot to attach my references. Please see below. > Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 16:18:10 +1000 > From: "jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au" <jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au> > To: ReactOS General List <ros-general(a)reactos.org> > Subject: Re: Issue 1. [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues] > Cc: > > Strictly speaking you are correct Richard. > To be more precise http and html are merely a legacy of hypercard/hypertalk. > I beg your pardon I will try to be more precise. > Wikipedia too is not written by experts, so you can alter their facts if you fell they are wrong. > We are all to a certain extent captives of legacy. > I am on many lists and find that I sometime grab a convenient answer without properly checking it validity. > > Cheers and rosuccess > Justin > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperCard HyperText Transfer Protocol (HTTP) is the primary method used to convey information on the World Wide Web. The original purpose was to provide a way to publish and receive HTML pages. In August 1987, Apple Computer revealed its HyperCard application for its Macintosh line of computers at the MacWorld convention in Boston. HyperCard was an immediate hit and helped to popularize the concept of hypertext with the general public (although as Jakob Nielsen later pointed out, it was technically a hypermedia system because its hyperlinks originated only from regions on the screen). The first hypertext-specific academic conference also took place that year. Legacy HyperCard is one of the first products that made use of and popularized the hypertext concept to a large popular base of users. Jakob Nielsen has pointed out that HyperCard was really only a hypermedia program since its links started from regions on a card, not text objects; actual HTML-style text hyperlinks were possible in later versions, but were awkward to implement and seldom used. HyperCard saw a loss in popularity with the growth of the World Wide Web, since the Web could handle and deliver data in much the same way as HyperCard without being limited to files on your hard disk. Interestingly, HyperCard had a significant impact on the web as it inspired the creation of both HTTP itself and JavaScript (through its influence on Tim Berners-Lee's colleague Robert Cailliau).

18 years, 10 months

Re: Issue 1. [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues]

by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au

Sorry Richard I am not strictly correct, the concept was around long before Apple. However Apple is credited with popularlising it. I know I first leaned of hypercard, hypertalk and hypertext from Apple sources. Next time I will use the word "legacy". As for the connection, to http and html, I got that too from the source below. If you feel strongly enough about it you are able to change the material in the Wikipedia. Of course I still may have read it incorrectly. They only require that the material be well researched and the changes made with professional skill. You are entitled to question my sources Richard. By so doing you improve this list Cheers and rosuccess Justin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperCard HyperText Transfer Protocol (HTTP) is the primary method used to convey information on the World Wide Web. The original purpose was to provide a way to publish and receive HTML pages. In August 1987, Apple Computer revealed its HyperCard application for its Macintosh line of computers at the MacWorld convention in Boston. HyperCard was an immediate hit and helped to popularize the concept of hypertext with the general public (although as Jakob Nielsen later pointed out, it was technically a hypermedia system because its hyperlinks originated only from regions on the screen). The first hypertext-specific academic conference also took place that year. Legacy HyperCard is one of the first products that made use of and popularized the hypertext concept to a large popular base of users. Jakob Nielsen has pointed out that HyperCard was really only a hypermedia program since its links started from regions on a card, not text objects; actual HTML-style text hyperlinks were possible in later versions, but were awkward to implement and seldom used. HyperCard saw a loss in popularity with the growth of the World Wide Web, since the Web could handle and deliver data in much the same way as HyperCard without being limited to files on your hard disk. Interestingly, HyperCard had a significant impact on the web as it inspired the creation of both HTTP itself and JavaScript (through its influence on Tim Berners-Lee's colleague Robert Cailliau). ---- Richard Campbell <eek2121(a)comcast.net> wrote: > FYI, Hypercard and it's programming language have nothing to do with > HTTP, nor HTML or anything else. It was completely different. > Hypercard 1.0/hypertext was the first language i was really interested > in (I liked Tandy BASIC, however the machine died. I grew up using a > Tandy CoCo 2.) > > jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au wrote: > > >I don't quite understand what you mean here Alex: > > > > > >>Jobs' failed OS ???? Sounds interesting though. > >> > >> > >And as for: > > > > > >>QBASIC-level scripting language are the backbone of > >>the Internet? Perhaps you might expand on that one?? > >> > >> > >I was refering to the "HT" in "HTTP" > >And "backbone was a poor choice of words. > >I'm sure even sure whether the internet has one. > > > >Cheers and rosuccess > >Justin > > > > > >---- Alex Ionescu <ionucu(a)videotron.ca> wrote: > > > > > >>jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Put them both together you get NeXT, for Jobs's Apple HyperText and HyperCard > >>>Which today is the backbone of the Internet. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>Jobs' failed OS and QBASIC-level scripting language are the backbone of > >>the Internet? > >>I thought Al Gore was the man behind it! > >> > >>Best Regards, > >>Alex Ionescu > >>_______________________________________________ > >>ros-general mailing list > >>ros-general(a)reactos.org > >>http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >ros-general mailing list > >ros-general(a)reactos.org > >http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ros-general mailing list > ros-general(a)reactos.org > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

18 years, 10 months

Re: Issue 1. [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues]

by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au

Strictly speaking you are correct Richard. To be more precise http and html are merely a legacy of hypercard/hypertalk. I beg your pardon I will try to be more precise. Wikipedia too is not written by experts, so you can alter their facts if you fell they are wrong. We are all to a certain extent captives of legacy. I am on many lists and find that I sometime grab a convenient answer without properly checking it validity. Cheers and rosuccess Justin ---- Richard Campbell <eek2121(a)comcast.net> wrote: > FYI, Hypercard and it's programming language have nothing to do with > HTTP, nor HTML or anything else. It was completely different. > Hypercard 1.0/hypertext was the first language i was really interested > in (I liked Tandy BASIC, however the machine died. I grew up using a > Tandy CoCo 2.) > > jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au wrote: > > >I don't quite understand what you mean here Alex: > > > > > >>Jobs' failed OS ???? Sounds interesting though. > >> > >> > >And as for: > > > > > >>QBASIC-level scripting language are the backbone of > >>the Internet? Perhaps you might expand on that one?? > >> > >> > >I was refering to the "HT" in "HTTP" > >And "backbone was a poor choice of words. > >I'm sure even sure whether the internet has one. > > > >Cheers and rosuccess > >Justin > > > > > >---- Alex Ionescu <ionucu(a)videotron.ca> wrote: > > > > > >>jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>Put them both together you get NeXT, for Jobs's Apple HyperText and HyperCard > >>>Which today is the backbone of the Internet. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>Jobs' failed OS and QBASIC-level scripting language are the backbone of > >>the Internet? > >>I thought Al Gore was the man behind it! > >> > >>Best Regards, > >>Alex Ionescu > >>_______________________________________________ > >>ros-general mailing list > >>ros-general(a)reactos.org > >>http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general > >> > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > >ros-general mailing list > >ros-general(a)reactos.org > >http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ros-general mailing list > ros-general(a)reactos.org > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

18 years, 10 months

Re: Issue 1. [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues]

by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au

I don't quite understand what you mean here Alex: > Jobs' failed OS ???? Sounds interesting though. And as for: > QBASIC-level scripting language are the backbone of > the Internet? Perhaps you might expand on that one?? I was refering to the "HT" in "HTTP" And "backbone was a poor choice of words. I'm sure even sure whether the internet has one. Cheers and rosuccess Justin ---- Alex Ionescu <ionucu(a)videotron.ca> wrote: > jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au wrote: > > >Put them both together you get NeXT, for Jobs's Apple HyperText and HyperCard > >Which today is the backbone of the Internet. > > > > > > > Jobs' failed OS and QBASIC-level scripting language are the backbone of > the Internet? > I thought Al Gore was the man behind it! > > Best Regards, > Alex Ionescu > _______________________________________________ > ros-general mailing list > ros-general(a)reactos.org > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

18 years, 10 months

Re: Issue 1. [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues]

by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au

18 years, 10 months

Re: Issue 1. [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues]

by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au

There you are Alex, there are plenty more mistakes. Would you tell me what your sources are? As for Al Gore, please teeeelll me moorre??!! Isn't he the famous green oil man? from Bolivia? Cheers and rosuccess Justin ---- Alex Ionescu <ionucu(a)videotron.ca> wrote: > jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au wrote: > > >Put them both together you get NeXT, for Jobs's Apple HyperText and HyperCard > >Which today is the backbone of the Internet. > > > > > > > Jobs' failed OS and QBASIC-level scripting language are the backbone of > the Internet? > I thought Al Gore was the man behind it! > > Best Regards, > Alex Ionescu > _______________________________________________ > ros-general mailing list > ros-general(a)reactos.org > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

18 years, 10 months

Issue 2. [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues]

by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au

Thanks Lyrical Not bad for a demented old timer though, just one mistake? I think this ros-general list is good for me. I can't have only got that much wrong, I guessed most of it? The point I am trying to make is this: Gossip is great but it doesn't cut in court. Rule of Evidence and Rules the the Court are all a Judge rules on. The Judge in on our Case is the ordinary person in the street. Statements like ReactOS is still an Alpha release is not necessary. Microsoft has made the eternal Alpha release it's fortune. Now Red Hat has too, and most other Linux releases. Copy Cat Industrialised production cannot be trusted. I get mixed messages from ReactOS Users. Is this an issue worth pursuing? Cheers and rosuccess Justin ---- Lyrical Nanoha <LyricalNanoha(a)dosius.net> wrote: > On Wed, 26 Oct 2005, jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au wrote: > > > Jobs takes his payout after being dumped from Apple, takes the bit he missed from Xerox Smalltalk80 and builds NeXT computers, the ferrari of Computers. > > He brings it back to Apple again put it on a Linux kernel and calles it NextStep. > > Together (AIM group Apple, IBM and Motorolla) they build the "G" series. > > Microsofts decides to catch up by applying it to his own hardware base i.e. Intel. > > It is called the Wintel group. > > NeXT was always based on BSD - OSX still is based on BSD, not Linux. > > -uso. > _______________________________________________ > ros-general mailing list > ros-general(a)reactos.org > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

18 years, 10 months

ROS 0.2.8 RC-2 available

by Robert Köpferl

A new version of ReactOS has arrived on SourceForge.Net Release Candidate 2 of version 0.2.8 has been finished last night and upped. As usual you're welcome to download and test. At this space some personal note: This is the first publish the new Releasemanager Brandon Turner did. For an unknown time, he'll do all future releases, since I go on some longer jorney. I'll not disappear from ROS but at least for some time. But I'm coming back within a year or so.

18 years, 10 months

Re: Issue 1. [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues]

by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au

Sorry guys. In my preoccupation with separating USER from PROGRAMMER I stepped into a rather smelly issue of my own making. However your response is making me aware of a number of issues which may have lain dormant, simply because nobody "in the know" would have had (myself included) the courage to ask such a seemingl silly question.. How many Users would know what NT even means: Afterall Users don't program or do they? Cheers and rosuccess Justin ---- "Robert Köpferl" <rob(a)koepferl.de> wrote: > Seems to me like you missed the point (or I did) > > It's about updates, patches for win98 and their current apps still > working on win98 > > jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au wrote: > > Issue 1 > > > > Telstra Bigbond has announced that they are following Microsofts plan to drop support for Windows98 fron 17th August this year. > > It is clear that Microsoft is no longer supporting backward compatability, only forward. > > These are two entirely different Technologies, both at the OS and at the File level. > > If ReactOS policy is to be plug compatibe with Windows, how does ReactOS plan to deal with it? > > > > Cheers and rosuccess > > Justin > > > > > > ---- Justin Walsh <justin_2006(a)operamail.com> wrote: > > > >>---- Justin Walsh <justin_2006(a)operamail.com> wrote: > >> > >>>I'm a little confused. > >> > >>Well not anymore. > >>This may not be a Wiki, but I can make it look like one. > >>All I have to do is comply strictly with the ReactOS Code of Conduct. > >>I think ROS-User-Issues or RUI is pretty clear. > >>If you need to talk code then got to: > >>ROS-Programmer-Issues or RPI. > >>We already have Mingw-Msys for those don't just read or talk code, > >>but seriously do it. > >>Kicking off RUI. > >>I recommend taking a look at http://www.pcpitstop.com > >>He has some interesting things to say about Microsoft. > >>Not that I agree entirely with him. > >> > >>Any objections or recomendations are welcome > >> > >>Cheers and rosuccess > >> > >>Justin > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >>_______________________________________________ > >>Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way: > >>Download Opera 8 at http://www.opera.com > >> > >>Powered by Outblaze > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>ros-general mailing list > >>ros-general(a)reactos.org > >>http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ros-general mailing list > > ros-general(a)reactos.org > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general > > > _______________________________________________ > ros-general mailing list > ros-general(a)reactos.org > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

18 years, 10 months

Re: Issue 1. [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues]

by jwalsh＠bigpond.net.au

Heh! I opened either a treasure trove or a pandoras box. It doesn't matter which at this stage. All it means is, it's ok to express that opinion which you thought too silly to mention before. This is the concept of Freedom which the concept of Limit enhances. For without Limit there can be no progress at all. Within relative Limits of course. [Newtons laws of motion] Sorry I just can't help myself. --- May I add one more suggestion? Should anyone have a non trivial point tp make then it should look like this: Subject: Issue 1.1 [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues]. Later on I will demonstrate another nifty trick. Cheers and rosuccess Justin ---- TwoTailedFox <twotailedfox(a)gmail.com> wrote: > It was initially supposed to mean "New Technology", but soon after, it > became Just Another Meaningless Acronym. > > However... Look at VMS, and WNT. See how the shorthand of Windows NT > is a play on one-upping VMS? :p > > On 10/24/05, Kevin Lawton <kepla(a)btinternet.com> wrote: > > I sometimes wonder if even Microsoft know what NT means. > > Look at the Windows 2000 splash screen - 'based on NT technology'. > > Translate the 'NT' into 'New Technology' and we get 'based on new technology technology'. > > Not very confidence inspiring, Microsoft. > > Kevin. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ros-general-bounces(a)reactos.org > > > [mailto:ros-general-bounces@reactos.org]On Behalf Of > > > jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au > > > Sent: 24 October 2005 21:13 > > > To: ReactOS General List > > > Cc: Robert Köpferl > > > Subject: Re: Issue 1. [Re: [ros-general] ROS-User-Issues] > > > > > > > > > Sorry guys. > > > In my preoccupation with separating USER from PROGRAMMER I > > > stepped into a rather smelly issue of my own making. > > > However your response is making me aware of a number of issues > > > which may have lain dormant, simply because nobody "in the know" > > > would have had (myself included) the courage to ask such a > > > seemingl silly question.. > > > How many Users would know what NT even means: Afterall Users > > > don't program or do they? > > > Cheers and rosuccess > > > Justin > > > ---- "Robert Köpferl" <rob(a)koepferl.de> wrote: > > > > Seems to me like you missed the point (or I did) > > > > > > > > It's about updates, patches for win98 and their current apps still > > > > working on win98 > > > > > > > > jwalsh(a)bigpond.net.au wrote: > > > > > Issue 1 > > > > > > > > > > Telstra Bigbond has announced that they are following > > > Microsofts plan to drop support for Windows98 fron 17th August > > > this year. > > > > > It is clear that Microsoft is no longer supporting backward > > > compatability, only forward. > > > > > These are two entirely different Technologies, both at the OS > > > and at the File level. > > > > > If ReactOS policy is to be plug compatibe with Windows, how > > > does ReactOS plan to deal with it? > > > > > > > > > > Cheers and rosuccess > > > > > Justin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- Justin Walsh <justin_2006(a)operamail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >>---- Justin Walsh <justin_2006(a)operamail.com> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>>I'm a little confused. > > > > >> > > > > >>Well not anymore. > > > > >>This may not be a Wiki, but I can make it look like one. > > > > >>All I have to do is comply strictly with the ReactOS Code of Conduct. > > > > >>I think ROS-User-Issues or RUI is pretty clear. > > > > >>If you need to talk code then got to: > > > > >>ROS-Programmer-Issues or RPI. > > > > >>We already have Mingw-Msys for those don't just read or talk code, > > > > >>but seriously do it. > > > > >>Kicking off RUI. > > > > >>I recommend taking a look at http://www.pcpitstop.com > > > > >>He has some interesting things to say about Microsoft. > > > > >>Not that I agree entirely with him. > > > > >> > > > > >>Any objections or recomendations are welcome > > > > >> > > > > >>Cheers and rosuccess > > > > >> > > > > >>Justin > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>-- > > > > >>_______________________________________________ > > > > >>Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way: > > > > >>Download Opera 8 at http://www.opera.com > > > > >> > > > > >>Powered by Outblaze > > > > >> > > > > >>_______________________________________________ > > > > >>ros-general mailing list > > > > >>ros-general(a)reactos.org > > > > >>http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > ros-general mailing list > > > > > ros-general(a)reactos.org > > > > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > ros-general mailing list > > > > ros-general(a)reactos.org > > > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > ros-general mailing list > > > ros-general(a)reactos.org > > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ros-general mailing list > > ros-general(a)reactos.org > > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general > > > > > -- > "I had a handle on life, but then it broke" > > _______________________________________________ > ros-general mailing list > ros-general(a)reactos.org > http://www.reactos.org/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

18 years, 10 months

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Ros-general October 2005