Translators ARE needed (HTML email)

[Aleksey Bragin]

        Hello,
the time for ReactOS website to become multilanguage is coming, and actually is rather
near :-)

So, to start, we need to gather a team of translators for every language.
As an initial attempt, I searched the ReactOS maillist archives, and found the following
people are (were?) willing to do the ReactOS translation.

Here is the list:
      Name Languages E-Mail 
      Rick Langschultz 1) French absleadcoder(a)cox.net 
     2) Spanish  
     3) Irish Gaelic  
     4) Manx Gaelic  
      Mikhail Y. Zvyozdochkin Russian mzvyozd(a)narod.ru 
      Waldo Alvarez Spanish wac(a)ghost.matcom.uh.cu 
      Alexander Ciobanu 1) Romanian alex(a)prodidactica.md 
     2) Russian  
      Filip Navara Czech xnavara(a)volny.cz 
      Bjorn Fischer German thebear80(a)gmx.net 
      Mark IJbema Dutch mark(a)ijbema.xs4all.nl 
      Lorenzo Italian garbage(a)loz.it 
      mtg Japanese mtg(a)ce.wakwak.com 
      tmtsac(a)hotmail.com 
      Oliwer French oliwer(a)free.fr 



This list is a very preliminary one, since actually I haven't asked anyone from this
list if he really wants to do the translation now, except for Oliwer, who already sent me
an email regarding his English -> French translation skills.

If anyone has changed their mind since they post to ros-general/ros-kernel --- let me
know, and I will remove you from this list.

So far we have this (hope line wrap doesn't harm this, in any case I will repost the
updated versions of these tables in a better format later):
      Czech Dutch French Gaelic (Irish) Gaelic (Manx) German Italian Japanese Romanian
Russian Spanish 
      Navara IJbema Oliwer Langschultz Langschultz Fischer Lorenzo mtg Ciobanu Bragin
Langschultz 
     (GvG ?) Langschultz       Ciobanu  
             Zvyozdochkin  


We have a good situation in Dutch (IJbema can translate, and GvG can approve --- ? ),
French, and Russian (we may have even another man here - Semyon Novikov) languages.
But certainly for a start, at least one people per language is enough, though two are
highly preferable.


I will post translation rules and guideline here later, and actually I am going to start
preparing the stuff for translation.


With the best regards,
Aleksey Bragin.

[Rick Langschultz]

I am still interested in translating, I was wondering however what needed to
be translated. Just the classic dialog, buttons, etc. or documents and
everybit of sourcecode that exists. That would be a task, I don't have a
problem doing it but remember that irish gaelic uses about 10% more words
per paragraph.

[Michael]

I would help with the English->German translation, too.
 
-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Von: ros-general-bounces(a)reactos.com
[mailto:[e-mail]] Im Auftrag von Aleksey Bragin
Gesendet: Montag, 16. Februar 2004 17:34
An: ros-general(a)reactos.com
Betreff: [ros-general] Translators ARE needed (HTML email)
 
        Hello,
the time for ReactOS website to become multilanguage is coming, and
actually is rather near :-)
 
So, to start, we need to gather a team of translators for every
language.
As an initial attempt, I searched the ReactOS maillist archives, and
found the following people are (were?) willing to do the ReactOS
translation.
 
Here is the list:

Name
Languages
E-Mail

Rick Langschultz
1) French
 <mailto:[e-mail]> absleadcoder(a)cox.net

 
2) Spanish
 

 
3) Irish Gaelic
 

 
4) Manx Gaelic
 

Mikhail Y. Zvyozdochkin
Russian
 <mailto:[e-mail]> mzvyozd(a)narod.ru

Waldo Alvarez
Spanish
 <mailto:[e-mail]> wac(a)ghost.matcom.uh.cu

Alexander Ciobanu
1) Romanian
 <mailto:[e-mail]> alex(a)prodidactica.md

 
2) Russian
 

Filip Navara
Czech
 <mailto:[e-mail]> xnavara(a)volny.cz

Bjorn Fischer
German
 <mailto:[e-mail]> thebear80(a)gmx.net

Mark IJbema
Dutch
 <mailto:[e-mail]> mark(a)ijbema.xs4all.nl

Lorenzo
Italian
 <mailto:[e-mail]> garbage(a)loz.it

mtg
Japanese
 <mailto:[e-mail]> mtg(a)ce.wakwak.com

 
 
 <mailto:[e-mail]> tmtsac(a)hotmail.com

Oliwer
French
 <mailto:[e-mail]> oliwer(a)free.fr
 
 
This list is a very preliminary one, since actually I haven't asked
anyone from this list if he really wants to do the translation now,
except for Oliwer, who already sent me an email regarding his English ->
French translation skills.
 
If anyone has changed their mind since they post to
ros-general/ros-kernel --- let me know, and I will remove you from this
list.
 
So far we have this (hope line wrap doesn't harm this, in any case I
will repost the updated versions of these tables in a better format
later):

Czech
Dutch
French
Gaelic (Irish)
Gaelic (Manx)
German
Italian
Japanese
Romanian
Russian
Spanish

Navara
IJbema
Oliwer
Langschultz
Langschultz
Fischer
Lorenzo
mtg
Ciobanu
Bragin
Langschultz

 
(GvG ?)
Langschultz
 
 
 
 
 
 
Ciobanu
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Zvyozdochkin
 
 
We have a good situation in Dutch (IJbema can translate, and GvG can
approve --- ? ), French, and Russian (we may have even another man here
- Semyon Novikov) languages.
But certainly for a start, at least one people per language is enough,
though two are highly preferable.
 
 
I will post translation rules and guideline here later, and actually I
am going to start preparing the stuff for translation.
 
 
With the best regards,
Aleksey Bragin.

[Wishmaster Webmaster]

I also would like to help.
Ich wu"rde auch gerne helfen.

English->German

Michael wrote:

>   I would help with the English->German translation,
> too.
>
>  -----Urspru"ngliche Nachricht-----
>  *Von:* ros-general-bounces(a)reactos.com 
>  [mailto:[e-mail]] *Im Auftrag von *Aleksey Bragin
>  *Gesendet:* Montag, 16. Februar 2004 17:34
>  *An:* ros-general(a)reactos.com
>  *Betreff:* [ros-general] Translators ARE needed (HTML email)
>
>  Hello,
>
>  the time for ReactOS website to become multilanguage is coming, and 
>  actually is rather near :-)
>
>  So, to start, we need to gather a team of translators for every language.
>
>  As an initial attempt, I searched the ReactOS maillist archives, and 
>  found the following people are (were?) willing to do the ReactOS 
>  translation.
>
>  Here is the list:
>
>  **Name**
>
>  	
>
>  **Languages**
>
>  	
>
>  **E-Mail**
>
>  Rick Langschultz
>
>  	
>
>  1) French
>
>  	
>
>  absleadcoder(a)cox.net <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	
>
>  2) Spanish
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  3) Irish Gaelic
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  4) Manx Gaelic
>
>  	
>
>  Mikhail Y. Zvyozdochkin
>
>  	
>
>  Russian
>
>  	
>
>  mzvyozd(a)narod.ru <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  Waldo Alvarez
>
>  	
>
>  Spanish
>
>  	
>
>  wac(a)ghost.matcom.uh.cu <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  Alexander Ciobanu
>
>  	
>
>  1) Romanian
>
>  	
>
>  alex(a)prodidactica.md <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	
>
>  2) Russian
>
>  	
>
>  Filip Navara
>
>  	
>
>  Czech
>
>  	
>
>  xnavara(a)volny.cz <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  Bjo"rn Fischer
>
>  	
>
>  German
>
>  	
>
>  thebear80(a)gmx.net <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  Mark IJbema
>
>  	
>
>  Dutch
>
>  	
>
>  mark(a)ijbema.xs4all.nl <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  Lorenzo
>
>  	
>
>  Italian
>
>  	
>
>  garbage(a)loz.it <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  mtg
>
>  	
>
>  Japanese
>
>  	
>
>  mtg(a)ce.wakwak.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  tmtsac(a)hotmail.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  Oliwer
>
>  	
>
>  French
>
>  	
>
>  oliwer(a)free.fr <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  This list is a very preliminary one, since actually I haven't asked 
>  anyone from this list if he really wants to do the translation now, 
>  except for Oliwer, who already sent me an email regarding his English 
>  -> French translation skills.
>
>  If anyone has changed their mind since they post to 
>  ros-general/ros-kernel --- let me know, and I will remove you from 
>  this list.
>
>  So far we have this (hope line wrap doesn't harm this, in any case I 
>  will repost the updated versions of these tables in a better format 
>  later):
>
>  **Czech**
>
>  	
>
>  **Dutch**
>
>  	
>
>  **French**
>
>  	
>
>  **Gaelic (Irish)**
>
>  	
>
>  **Gaelic (Manx)**
>
>  	
>
>  **German**
>
>  	
>
>  **Italian**
>
>  	
>
>  **Japanese**
>
>  	
>
>  **Romanian**
>
>  	
>
>  **Russian**
>
>  	
>
>  **Spanish**
>
>  Navara
>
>  	
>
>  IJbema
>
>  	
>
>  Oliwer
>
>  	
>
>  Langschultz
>
>  	
>
>  Langschultz
>
>  	
>
>  Fischer
>
>  	
>
>  Lorenzo
>
>  	
>
>  mtg
>
>  	
>
>  Ciobanu
>
>  	
>
>  Bragin
>
>  	
>
>  Langschultz
>
>  	
>
>  (GvG ?)
>
>  	
>
>  Langschultz
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  Ciobanu
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  	
>
>  Zvyozdochkin
>
>  	
>
>  We have a good situation in Dutch (IJbema can translate, and GvG can 
>  approve --- ? ), French, and Russian (we may have even another man 
>  here - Semyon Novikov) languages.
>
>  But certainly for a start, at least one people per language is enough, 
>  though two are highly preferable.
>
>  I will post translation rules and guideline here later, and actually I 
>  am going to start preparing the stuff for translation.
>
>  With the best regards,
>
>  Aleksey Bragin.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ros-general mailing list
> ros-general(a)reactos.com
> http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
>

[Max]

And here is another English->German translator (if you can use another one).
My English isn't perfect but I would like to support this project.
I have programming experiences in C if that helps.

[Fabian Kupferschmid]

Max wrote:

>  And here is another English->German translator (if
> you can use another one).
>  
And here's one more. :-) I think, my English is good enough (but not perfect).

I also could translate it into swiss-german. ;-)

Greets
 Fabian

[Robert Köpferl]

So there's an additional additional one.

Fabian, what's swiss german?
Is it just the ß->ss
Or like österreichisch vs. german?

Fabian Kupferschmid schrieb:

>   Max wrote:
>  
> >   And here is another English->German translator
> > (if you can use another 
> >  one).
> >  
>  And here's one more. :-) I think, my English is good enough (but not 
>  perfect).
>  
>  I also could translate it into swiss-german. ;-)
>  
>  Greets
>  Fabian
>  
>  _______________________________________________
>  ros-general mailing list
>  ros-general(a)reactos.com
>  http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

[Fabian Kupferschmid]

Robert Köpferl wrote:

>   So there's an additional additional one.
>
>  Fabian, what's swiss german?
>  Is it just the ß->ss
>  Or like österreichisch vs. german? 
Well, there are two things:

First, swiss german means the language we (in Switzerland) usually use 
when we write something.
That's ß->ss but there are also some different words. Perhaps like 
"österreichisch vs. german" (but
I don't know exactly what you mean).
But I think it isn't necessary to "translate" a german text into swiss 
german.

Secound, swiss german could mean the dialect we speak. A translation 
into swiss german wouldn't
be useful , but could be funny (cf. Google's languages "Bork, bork, 
bork", "Klingon" or "Hacker", ...).

Greetings
 Fabian

[Aleksey Bragin]

I'm really impressed -- we have 7 people for German language :-)

German ReactOS is going to be rather cool :)

Thanks everyone certainly for your wish to help with the translation.


With the best regards,
Aleksey Bragin.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Fabian Kupferschmid" <ich-m(a)g-kein-spam.com>
To: <ros-general(a)reactos.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [ros-general] Translators ARE needed (HTML email)


>   Max wrote:
>
>  >And here is another English->German translator (if you can use another
one).
> >   
>  And
> here's one more. :-) I think, my English is good enough (but not 
perfect).
>  
>  I also could translate it into swiss-german. ;-)
>
>  Greets
>   Fabian
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  ros-general mailing list
>  ros-general(a)reactos.com
>  http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

[[handytone24.de] Markus Nicoleit]

I would make a german translation to but when we've got already 7
translators i think we don't need one more.

-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Von: ros-general-bounces(a)reactos.com
[mailto:[e-mail]]Im Auftrag von Aleksey Bragin
Gesendet: Montag, 16. Februar 2004 23:11
An: ros-general(a)reactos.com
Betreff: Re: AW: [ros-general] Translators ARE needed (HTML email)


I'm really impressed -- we have 7 people for German language :-)

German ReactOS is going to be rather cool :)

Thanks everyone certainly for your wish to help with the translation.


With the best regards,
Aleksey Bragin.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fabian Kupferschmid" <ich-m(a)g-kein-spam.com>
To: <ros-general(a)reactos.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [ros-general] Translators ARE needed (HTML email)


>   Max wrote:
>
>  >And here is another English->German translator (if you can use another
one).
> >   
>  And
> here's one more. :-) I think, my English is good enough (but not 
perfect).
>  
>  I also could translate it into swiss-german. ;-)
>
>  Greets
>   Fabian
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  ros-general mailing list
>  ros-general(a)reactos.com
>  http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general 
_______________________________________________
ros-general mailing list
ros-general(a)reactos.com
http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

[Mark IJbema]

On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 03:22:23PM +0100, [handytone24.de] Markus Nicoleit wrote:
>   I would make a german translation to but when
> we've got already 7
>  translators i think we don't need one more. 
Well, atm there's relatively little to translate, but as the content
will grow, so will the need for translators, i think there can't really
be too much translators...

Mark

[Kamil Maj]

Hello,
I could do the Polish translation. It's high time to start doing 
something for the project. No more lurking

Regards,
Kamil Maj

[Sascha Gehrke]

As already said I'm interestet, too

English->German

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Aleksey Bragin 
  To: ros-general(a)reactos.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 5:34 PM
  Subject: [ros-general] Translators ARE needed (HTML email)


          Hello,
  the time for ReactOS website to become multilanguage is coming, and actually is rather
near :-)

  So, to start, we need to gather a team of translators for every language.
  As an initial attempt, I searched the ReactOS maillist archives, and found the following
people are (were?) willing to do the ReactOS translation.

  Here is the list:
        Name Languages E-Mail 
        Rick Langschultz 1) French absleadcoder(a)cox.net 
       2) Spanish  
       3) Irish Gaelic  
       4) Manx Gaelic  
        Mikhail Y. Zvyozdochkin Russian mzvyozd(a)narod.ru 
        Waldo Alvarez Spanish wac(a)ghost.matcom.uh.cu 
        Alexander Ciobanu 1) Romanian alex(a)prodidactica.md 
       2) Russian  
        Filip Navara Czech xnavara(a)volny.cz 
        Bjorn Fischer German thebear80(a)gmx.net 
        Mark IJbema Dutch mark(a)ijbema.xs4all.nl 
        Lorenzo Italian garbage(a)loz.it 
        mtg Japanese mtg(a)ce.wakwak.com 
        tmtsac(a)hotmail.com 
        Oliwer French oliwer(a)free.fr 



  This list is a very preliminary one, since actually I haven't asked anyone from this
list if he really wants to do the translation now, except for Oliwer, who already sent me
an email regarding his English -> French translation skills.

  If anyone has changed their mind since they post to ros-general/ros-kernel --- let me
know, and I will remove you from this list.

  So far we have this (hope line wrap doesn't harm this, in any case I will repost the
updated versions of these tables in a better format later):
        Czech Dutch French Gaelic (Irish) Gaelic (Manx) German Italian Japanese Romanian
Russian Spanish 
        Navara IJbema Oliwer Langschultz Langschultz Fischer Lorenzo mtg Ciobanu Bragin
Langschultz 
       (GvG ?) Langschultz       Ciobanu  
               Zvyozdochkin  


  We have a good situation in Dutch (IJbema can translate, and GvG can approve --- ? ),
French, and Russian (we may have even another man here - Semyon Novikov) languages.
  But certainly for a start, at least one people per language is enough, though two are
highly preferable.


  I will post translation rules and guideline here later, and actually I am going to start
preparing the stuff for translation.


  With the best regards,
  Aleksey Bragin.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  ros-general mailing list
  ros-general(a)reactos.com
  http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

[Tobias Ussing]

i could probably translate it to danish, though i must warn, even though im 
from denmark, and it is my first language. I suck at both spelling and 
grammer in danish, so someone should probably proof read it. Though i expect 
it would be good enough, for now :D.

So, if no one better steps up, and you want it, i can translate to danish.

NOTE: I hate danish OS, ive always used english, and ive never had a danish 
windows installed.

Sincerly
Tobias Ussing

On Monday 16 February 2004 17:34, Aleksey Bragin wrote:
>           Hello,
>  the time for ReactOS website to become multilanguage is coming, and
>  actually is rather near :-)
>
>  So, to start, we need to gather a team of translators for every language.
>  As an initial attempt, I searched the ReactOS maillist archives, and found
>  the following people are (were?) willing to do the ReactOS translation.
>
>  Here is the list:
>        Name Languages E-Mail
>        Rick Langschultz 1) French absleadcoder(a)cox.net
>       2) Spanish
>       3) Irish Gaelic
>       4) Manx Gaelic
>        Mikhail Y. Zvyozdochkin Russian mzvyozd(a)narod.ru
>        Waldo Alvarez Spanish wac(a)ghost.matcom.uh.cu
>        Alexander Ciobanu 1) Romanian alex(a)prodidactica.md
>       2) Russian
>        Filip Navara Czech xnavara(a)volny.cz
>        Bjorn Fischer German thebear80(a)gmx.net
>        Mark IJbema Dutch mark(a)ijbema.xs4all.nl
>        Lorenzo Italian garbage(a)loz.it
>        mtg Japanese mtg(a)ce.wakwak.com
>        tmtsac(a)hotmail.com
>        Oliwer French oliwer(a)free.fr
>
>
>
>  This list is a very preliminary one, since actually I haven't asked anyone
>  from this list if he really wants to do the translation now, except for
>  Oliwer, who already sent me an email regarding his English -> French
>  translation skills.
>
>  If anyone has changed their mind since they post to ros-general/ros-kernel
>  --- let me know, and I will remove you from this list.
>
>  So far we have this (hope line wrap doesn't harm this, in any case I will
>  repost the updated versions of these tables in a better format later):
>  Czech Dutch French Gaelic (Irish) Gaelic (Manx) German Italian Japanese
>  Romanian Russian Spanish Navara IJbema Oliwer Langschultz Langschultz
>  Fischer Lorenzo mtg Ciobanu Bragin Langschultz (GvG ?) Langschultz      
>  Ciobanu
>               Zvyozdochkin
>
>
>  We have a good situation in Dutch (IJbema can translate, and GvG can
>  approve --- ? ), French, and Russian (we may have even another man here -
>  Semyon Novikov) languages. But certainly for a start, at least one people
>  per language is enough, though two are highly preferable.
>
>
>  I will post translation rules and guideline here later, and actually I am
>  going to start preparing the stuff for translation.
>
>
>  With the best regards,
>  Aleksey Bragin.

I discussed the translation into Dutch with Mark IJbema, I also want to 
do a English to Dutch (and vice versa if necesery) translation.
Cheers

Emil

Aleksey Bragin wrote:

>   Hello,
>  the time for ReactOS website to become multilanguage is coming, and 
>  actually is rather near :-)
>  So, to start, we need to gather a team of translators for every language.
>  As an initial attempt, I searched the ReactOS maillist archives, and 
>  found the following people are (were?) willing to do the ReactOS 
>  translation.
>  Here is the list:
>  *Name* 	*Languages* 	*E-Mail*
>  Rick Langschultz 	1) French 	absleadcoder(a)cox.net 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	2) Spanish 	
>
>  	3) Irish Gaelic 	
>
>  	4) Manx Gaelic 	
>  Mikhail Y. Zvyozdochkin 	Russian 	mzvyozd(a)narod.ru 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Waldo Alvarez 	Spanish 	wac(a)ghost.matcom.uh.cu 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Alexander Ciobanu 	1) Romanian 	alex(a)prodidactica.md 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	2) Russian 	
>  Filip Navara 	Czech 	xnavara(a)volny.cz <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Bjo"rn Fischer 	German 	thebear80(a)gmx.net <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Mark IJbema 	Dutch 	mark(a)ijbema.xs4all.nl <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Lorenzo 	Italian 	garbage(a)loz.it <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  mtg 	Japanese 	mtg(a)ce.wakwak.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	
>  	tmtsac(a)hotmail.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Oliwer 	French 	oliwer(a)free.fr <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  This list is a very preliminary one, since actually I haven't asked 
>  anyone from this list if he really wants to do the translation now, 
>  except for Oliwer, who already sent me an email regarding his English 
>  -> French translation skills.
>  If anyone has changed their mind since they post to 
>  ros-general/ros-kernel --- let me know, and I will remove you from 
>  this list.
>  So far we have this (hope line wrap doesn't harm this, in any case I 
>  will repost the updated versions of these tables in a better format 
>  later):
>  *Czech* 	*Dutch* 	*French* 	*Gaelic (Irish)* 	*Gaelic (Manx)* 
>  *German* 	*Italian* 	*Japanese* 	*Romanian* 	*Russian* 	*Spanish*
>  Navara 	IJbema 	Oliwer 	Langschultz 	Langschultz 	Fischer 	Lorenzo 
>  mtg 	Ciobanu 	Bragin 	Langschultz
>
>  	(GvG ?) 	Langschultz 	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	Ciobanu 	
>
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	Zvyozdochkin 	
>
>  We have a good situation in Dutch (IJbema can translate, and GvG can 
>  approve --- ? ), French, and Russian (we may have even another man 
>  here - Semyon Novikov) languages.
>  But certainly for a start, at least one people per language is enough, 
>  though two are highly preferable.
>  I will post translation rules and guideline here later, and actually I 
>  am going to start preparing the stuff for translation.
>  With the best regards,
>  Aleksey Bragin.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ros-general mailing list
> ros-general(a)reactos.com
> http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
>

[Timothy Schepens]

ROS(a)Q-collective.org wrote:
>   I discussed the translation into Dutch with Mark
> IJbema, I also want to 
>  do a English to Dutch (and vice versa if necesery) translation.
>  Cheers
>   
Count me in for Dutch.

Timothy

[Mark IJbema]

On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 07:27:49AM +0100, Timothy Schepens wrote:
>   ROS(a)Q-collective.org wrote:
> >  I discussed the translation into Dutch with Mark
> > IJbema, I also want to 
> > do a English to Dutch (and vice versa if necesery) translation.
> > Cheers
> >  
>  
>  Count me in for Dutch. 
I think we need a coordinator per country as well, i'd like to do that
for Dutch.

Mark

[Aleksey Bragin]

Mark - yes, it was already a little discussed here, and it is absolutely
right.


With the best regards,
Aleksey Bragin.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark IJbema" <mark(a)ijbema.xs4all.nl>
To: <ros-general(a)reactos.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [ros-general] Translators ARE needed (HTML email)


>   I think we need a coordinator per country as well,
> i'd like to do that
>  for Dutch.
>
>  Mark
>  _______________________________________________
>  ros-general mailing list
>  ros-general(a)reactos.com
>  http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

[Mark IJbema]

On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 07:00:45PM +0300, Aleksey Bragin wrote:
>   Mark - yes, it was already a little discussed here,
> and it is absolutely
>  right. 
Maybe it would be good to setup a seperate mailinglist, ros-translate
maybe, since i think when we start we'll have lots to discuss. I think
that list should be multilingual as well.

Mark

[Wishmaster Webmaster]

Sorry i write in german because it is about translating in german.  Some 
words to Aleksey Bragin. If it is ok i would like to work for the german 
project in organization and translating.  I think i will start a new 
project for the german translationproject. please contact me: 
reactos(a)wishmaster.at

Hallo an alle deutschsprachigen hier draussen!!! nachdem ich bemerkt 
habe, dass es sehr viele gibt die an einer u"bersetzung von ros 
interessiert sind und auch mittun wu"rden ha"tte ich den vorschlag wir 
machen es gemeinsam. Soetwas braucht so und so immer mehrere leute. Die 
organisation wu"rde ich u"bernehmen.  Ich habe den Plan ein eigenes 
deutsches project aufzustellen. Vielleicht wa"re es gut wenn ihr euch 
alle mal bei mir per email meldet: reactos(a)wishmaster.at um alles 
weitere zu besprechen.

Danke an alle solche projecte Tatkra"ftig unterstu"tzen.
Thanks to all out there for there great work!

David Flechl


Aleksey Bragin wrote:

>           Hello,
>  the time for ReactOS website to become multilanguage is coming, and 
>  actually is rather near :-)
>   
>  So, to start, we need to gather a team of translators for every language.
>  As an initial attempt, I searched the ReactOS maillist archives, and 
>  found the following people are (were?) willing to do the ReactOS 
>  translation.
>   
>  Here is the list:
>  *Name* 	*Languages* 	*E-Mail*
>  Rick Langschultz 	1) French 	absleadcoder(a)cox.net 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	2) Spanish 	
>
>  	3) Irish Gaelic 	
>
>  	4) Manx Gaelic 	
>  Mikhail Y. Zvyozdochkin 	Russian 	mzvyozd(a)narod.ru 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Waldo Alvarez 	Spanish 	wac(a)ghost.matcom.uh.cu 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Alexander Ciobanu 	1) Romanian 	alex(a)prodidactica.md 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	2) Russian 	
>  Filip Navara 	Czech 	xnavara(a)volny.cz <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Bjo"rn Fischer 	German 	thebear80(a)gmx.net <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Mark IJbema 	Dutch 	mark(a)ijbema.xs4all.nl <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Lorenzo 	Italian 	garbage(a)loz.it <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  mtg 	Japanese 	mtg(a)ce.wakwak.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	
>  	tmtsac(a)hotmail.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Oliwer 	French 	oliwer(a)free.fr <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>   
>   
>  This list is a very preliminary one, since actually I haven't asked 
>  anyone from this list if he really wants to do the translation now, 
>  except for Oliwer, who already sent me an email regarding his English 
>  -> French translation skills.
>   
>  If anyone has changed their mind since they post to 
>  ros-general/ros-kernel --- let me know, and I will remove you from 
>  this list.
>   
>  So far we have this (hope line wrap doesn't harm this, in any case I 
>  will repost the updated versions of these tables in a better format 
>  later):
>  *Czech* 	*Dutch* 	*French* 	*Gaelic (Irish)* 	*Gaelic (Manx)* 
>  *German* 	*Italian* 	*Japanese* 	*Romanian* 	*Russian* 	*Spanish*
>  Navara 	IJbema 	Oliwer 	Langschultz 	Langschultz 	Fischer 	Lorenzo 
>  mtg 	Ciobanu 	Bragin 	Langschultz
>
>  	(GvG ?) 	Langschultz 	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	Ciobanu 	
>
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	Zvyozdochkin 	
>
>   
>  We have a good situation in Dutch (IJbema can translate, and GvG can 
>  approve --- ? ), French, and Russian (we may have even another man 
>  here - Semyon Novikov) languages.
>  But certainly for a start, at least one people per language is enough, 
>  though two are highly preferable.
>   
>   
>  I will post translation rules and guideline here later, and actually I 
>  am going to start preparing the stuff for translation.
>   
>   
>  With the best regards,
>  Aleksey Bragin.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ros-general mailing list
> ros-general(a)reactos.com
> http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
>

[Mark IJbema]

On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 12:43:09AM +0100, Wishmaster Webmaster wrote:
>   
>  Sorry i write in german because it is about translating in german.  Some 
>  words to Aleksey Bragin. If it is ok i would like to work for the german 
>  project in organization and translating.  I think i will start a new 
>  project for the german translationproject. please contact me: 
>  reactos(a)wishmaster.at
>  
>  Hallo an alle deutschsprachigen hier draussen!!! nachdem ich bemerkt 
>  habe, dass es sehr viele gibt die an einer u"bersetzung von ros 
>  interessiert sind und auch mittun wu"rden ha"tte ich den vorschlag wir 
>  machen es gemeinsam. Soetwas braucht so und so immer mehrere leute. Die 
>  organisation wu"rde ich u"bernehmen.  Ich habe den Plan ein eigenes 
>  deutsches project aufzustellen. Vielleicht wa"re es gut wenn ihr euch 
>  alle mal bei mir per email meldet: reactos(a)wishmaster.at um alles 
>  weitere zu besprechen.
>  
>  Danke an alle solche projecte Tatkra"ftig unterstu"tzen.
>  Thanks to all out there for there great work! 
Hmm, i don't think a seperate project will be necessary, why do you
think we need it (i think splitting up too much isn't good, actually,
that's what sucks about linux imho atm).

Mark

[Wishmaster Webmaster]

Mark IJbema wrote:

>  On Tue, Feb 17, 2004 at 12:43:09AM +0100, Wishmaster
> Webmaster wrote:
>   
>
> >  Sorry i write in german because it is about
> > translating in german.  Some 
> > words to Aleksey Bragin. If it is ok i would like to work for the german 
> > project in organization and translating.  I think i will start a new 
> > project for the german translationproject. please contact me: 
> > reactos(a)wishmaster.at
> >
> > Hallo an alle deutschsprachigen hier draussen!!! nachdem ich bemerkt 
> > habe, dass es sehr viele gibt die an einer u"bersetzung von ros 
> > interessiert sind und auch mittun wu"rden ha"tte ich den vorschlag wir 
> > machen es gemeinsam. Soetwas braucht so und so immer mehrere leute. Die 
> > organisation wu"rde ich u"bernehmen.  Ich habe den Plan ein eigenes 
> > deutsches project aufzustellen. Vielleicht wa"re es gut wenn ihr euch 
> > alle mal bei mir per email meldet: reactos(a)wishmaster.at um alles 
> > weitere zu besprechen.
> >
> > Danke an alle solche projecte Tatkra"ftig unterstu"tzen.
> > Thanks to all out there for there great work!
> >     
> >  
> Hmm, i don't think a seperate project will be necessary, why do you
> think we need it (i think splitting up too much isn't good, actually,
> that's what sucks about linux imho atm).
>
>   
>  
I think it is easier because in german there are many who would like to 
work for the translation.  it shouldn't be a standalon-project i think. 
the project should be a daughter-project. on other opensource-projects 
like openoffice there are also seperate daughter-projects. an it is 
nice.... there is much work for a languge project: translating the 
mainsite, translate the program, ...

david

>  Mark
> _______________________________________________
> ros-general mailing list
> ros-general(a)reactos.com
> http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
>
>   
>

[Aleksey Bragin]

First of all, I am glad so many people are willing to help in translation,
this really impressess me.

David --- I get your idea, however I don't agree with it completely, and
maybe this is because I haven't published any plans of our work, what will
we translate and how.

Translation can be roughly divided into 3 parts:
1. www.reactos.com website, it should become multilanguage
2. ReactOS Documentation (it's part of www.reactos.com website, but it goes
into another category)
3. ReactOS itself (all text, strings, dialogs, applications, etc). It should
be discussed and people should agree on the prefereable way to do this
(Robert Koepferl brings such a discussion into ros-general today).

We will start from translating the website, and then will plan our work on
translating the ReactOS itself.

David - as for creating your own project, I understand what you mean, but
this isn't the good way to do this, at least for now. I want all translation
process be generalized, going smoothly in all languages. Though I think
Japan language would be rather different, and it really may become a
standalone project (as Chinese and other similar languages).
If you have interesting ideas about organisation of the translation
process --- please email list/me.


With the best regards,
Aleksey Bragin.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wishmaster Webmaster" <webmaster(a)wishmaster.at>
To: <ros-general(a)reactos.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2004 4:04 AM
Subject: Re: [ros-general] Translators ARE needed (HTML email)
> >  Hmm, i
> > don't think a seperate project will be necessary, why do you
> > think we need it (i think splitting up too much isn't good, actually,
> > that's what sucks about linux imho atm).
> >
> >
> >  
>  I think it is easier because in german there are many who would like to
>  work for the translation.  it shouldn't be a standalon-project i think.
>  the project should be a daughter-project. on other opensource-projects
>  like openoffice there are also seperate daughter-projects. an it is
>  nice.... there is much work for a languge project: translating the
>  mainsite, translate the program, ...
>
>  david
>
>  >Mark

[M.Taguchi]

"Aleksey Bragin" <aleksey(a)studiocerebral.com> wrote:
>   Translation can be roughly divided into 3 parts:
>  1. www.reactos.com website, it should become multilanguage
>  2. ReactOS Documentation (it's part of www.reactos.com website, but it goes
>  into another category)
>  3. ReactOS itself (all text, strings, dialogs, applications, etc). It should
>  be discussed and people should agree on the prefereable way to do this. 
Hi,

I'd like to start with "light-weighted" matters;)

First, why don't you use ROS-wiki to list people who are willing to
translate? It supports the table-layout and much smart than posting the
HTML mails when there're changes, IMHO.

Next, I'm still willing to take the translation roll on Japanese.

And.. it might be too long to read, boring, redundant, and so on;but at
least Aleksey, please read the rest of this mail, it's a very important
thing to discuss.

I read the discussion on translation on this list and thought that
almost the same problem as other OSS have'll happen on ROS translation,
too. IMO, you can handle those languages which have many translators
easily(in this case, German, Dutch, and some other western languages).
If there're strange translations, they are easy to be found and fixed.
When there's a argument about translation, it's also solved easily; you
can vote or do anything you like. But on the languages which have few
translators, the circumstances'll be definitively different. Before
arguing about this, I want to make the point clear; do you guys think
that those terrible translations on some OSS(e.g.Linux, some guys
mentioned) are done on purpose? Do you guys think the translators on
those projects are nothing but fools? You can always do much better
than them? NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Those translators try to translate as
far as they can, but they fail to make good translations because of
miss, lacking of experience, etc... So, those who noticed that the
translations are mess, they are (at least partially) potentially better
translators than the main-translator who're working on the projects.
But why those "messy" translations are left as they are? In most cases
I think, it's because those users don't report the matter but just
complain:"the translation is a mess!!!". Hmm, what's lines the claimers
and the testers? I believe it's whether they report what they found and
or propose the solutions or not. Yeah, it's a quite important problem.
There're more and more potential testers all over the world but most of
the software vendors(not only the OSS, but also the proprietary vendors
I think) are just cutting them off and categorize they are "claimers".
What a wasteful loss! Anyway, I think you guys agree on the point that
if there are more contributers, things turn to better states. Of course,
I don't mean that the state that everyone have unlimited access on CVS
is great. It's clear that it'll cause a catastrophe. No review, no rule,
no order, no peace:) Well, obeying the opensource bazzar model, it's
quite natural to try on taking the so-called "claimers" into the
project as "testers" and/or "reviewers". So I propose the above(about
the ROS iself):
why don't you put a "bug/translation report" button next to the
minimize/maximize button on all dialogs/windows shown on ROS for a
"tester edition" or something? I'm not sure but I think some Unix'
window manager have this feature to have more feedbacks. On production
release, there'll be many users who doesn't like the strange buttons
are shown on their windows, so it'd be stripped away from the
production release(the future release for practical use, I mean).
* Clicking the button'll show the dialog to report bug/translation
feedback which has a form consisted of the user's name and comment box
to fill in.
* Fill in the forms and click "feedback" to send the app-path, window
name, and the comments to the server.
/* Note: we should apply the forms which are completely blank, because
the translation matters are mostly caused by lacking of translators'
awareness, because there're massive amount of strings/documents. The
numbers of fully-blanked forms'll be great help for translators to
indicate the problems. It doesn't tell nothing, but DOES tell there're
odd points on the dialogs/windows. */
* Then translators view the feedbacks and decide what to do.

I think most of you should've noticed; this "feature" requires at least
tweak on dialog API and support for TCP/IP, but it's worth implementing
(tho I can't take the implementation roll).

I'm not writing this massive messy unrecognizable English mail because
I've accidentally had this idea, but I've seen the terrible state of
softwares/OS's and thought how to make them better over times. For
instance, KDE stripped away the Japanese locale from their release
because it was lacking of quality and quantity, in spite of they have
great system to coodinate translations. (Well, it's partially solved
problem now, as the tragic state became a article on slashdot-jp and
eventually many people noticed the problem, proposed to help them.)
Then, it's clear that the same problem'll happen on ReactOS. I'm almost
sure. So we should expand the bazzar model to user-land. It'll cause a
few problems but the benefits are countless.

It's still a "draft idea", there might be some issues I'm not awared
of.

But I'd like to repeat; remember, many users complain the terrible
quality of translation but curerntly, most of them just complain,
overlook, and spread bad image of those softwares, but don't report and
try to make them better. It'll be a great help if we can take them into
the project as testers.

Any comments are appreciated.

Regards, and thanks for reading,

Masahiro.

[M.Taguchi]

I think I have to explain the word "claimer" I used, because it means quite
differ
in Japan and I meant the mean in Japan;"who complain and abuse, speak ill of the
product but do nothing, just complain".

Regards, Masahiro.

[Rick Parrish]

M.Taguchi wrote:

>  I think I have to explain the word "claimer"
> I used, because it means quite differ in Japan 
>  
Suggest: "complainer"

-rick

[James Pritchard]

M.Taguchi wrote:

>  "Aleksey Bragin"
> <aleksey(a)studiocerebral.com> wrote:
>   
>
> >  Translation can be roughly divided into 3 parts:
> > 1. www.reactos.com website, it should become multilanguage
> > 2. ReactOS Documentation (it's part of www.reactos.com website, but it goes
> > into another category)
> > 3. ReactOS itself (all text, strings, dialogs, applications, etc). It should
> > be discussed and people should agree on the prefereable way to do this.
> >     
> >  
>   
>  
>  First, why don't you use ROS-wiki to list people
> who are willing to
> translate? It supports the table-layout and much smart than posting the
> HTML mails when there're changes, IMHO.
>
>   
>  
Good idea, this is what project wiki's are there for.

<big snip>

>   So I propose the above(about
> the ROS iself):
> why don't you put a "bug/translation report" button next to the
> minimize/maximize button on all dialogs/windows shown on ROS for a
> "tester edition" or something? I'm not sure but I think some Unix'
> window manager have this feature to have more feedbacks. On production
> release, there'll be many users who doesn't like the strange buttons
> are shown on their windows, so it'd be stripped away from the
> production release(the future release for practical use, I mean).
> * Clicking the button'll show the dialog to report bug/translation
> feedback which has a form consisted of the user's name and comment box
> to fill in.
> * Fill in the forms and click "feedback" to send the app-path, window
> name, and the comments to the server.
> /* Note: we should apply the forms which are completely blank, because
> the translation matters are mostly caused by lacking of translators'
> awareness, because there're massive amount of strings/documents. The
> numbers of fully-blanked forms'll be great help for translators to
> indicate the problems. It doesn't tell nothing, but DOES tell there're
> odd points on the dialogs/windows. */
> * Then translators view the feedbacks and decide what to do.
>
> I think most of you should've noticed; this "feature" requires at least
> tweak on dialog API and support for TCP/IP, but it's worth implementing
> (tho I can't take the implementation roll).
>
>   
>  
I like this idea, it will encourage testers/users to get involved with
reporting problems.
But as is said, we need a working TCP/IP networking system before it
will work.
I think pressing the button could do 1 of 2 things. Either start a web
browser window that loads bugzilla or our own problem tracker; or it
launches a little app that asks a few questions. It would be passed the
calling apps name and version etc when it is executed. The all the app
needs is space for the reporters name, email and a box for a description
of the problem. The most important thing is to keep it simple.

<snip>

As for how the translations are done. There should definatly be a stage
of review/evaluation in my opinion.
So the translators submit translations to a coordinator for each
language that checks them before passing them onto Aleksey for
committing to CVS.

James

[Rick Parrish]

James Pritchard wrote:

>   So the translators submit translations to a
> coordinator for
>  eachlanguage that checks them before passing them onto Aleksey
>  forcommitting to CVS. 
Dumb question: how well does CVS handle UTF-8 vs. UTF-16 ? Has anyone
hit any snags in using a large number of character sets / encodings?

-rick

[Aleksey Bragin]

        Hello Masahiro,
I've read your email, and found it really interesting.

I agree and disagree in some points of your email, and I answer between
lines in your email -- read below.


>   Hi,
>
>  I'd like to start with "light-weighted" matters;)
>
>  First, why don't you use ROS-wiki to list people who are willing to
>  translate? It supports the table-layout and much smart than posting the
>  HTML mails when there're changes, IMHO. 
Thanks -- I'm just haven't used to wiki, but I agree it's a good idea -- I
will convert all my lists into ROS-Wiki.

>   Next, I'm still willing to take the translation
> roll on Japanese. 
Great

>   And.. it might be too long to read, boring, redundant,
> and so on;but at
>  least Aleksey, please read the rest of this mail, it's a very important
>  thing to discuss. 
It isn't boring at all :-) And you really discuss real
problems.

>   I read the discussion on translation on this list and
> thought that
>  almost the same problem as other OSS have'll happen on ROS translation,
>  too. IMO, you can handle those languages which have many translators
>  easily(in this case, German, Dutch, and some other western languages). 
I may sound
obvious but my point is to not let this happen.

>   If there're strange translations, they are easy to
> be found and fixed.
>  When there's a argument about translation, it's also solved easily; you
>  can vote or do anything you like. But on the languages which have few
>  translators, the circumstances'll be definitively different. Before 
Yes, I
agree with you --- if a language have only one translator -- than I'd
better postpone the translation until we have at least two, who can review
each other's work. Otherwise the situation you're describing will certainly
happen. (Replace 'at least two' with 'at least n number of people' - where
n
>  = 2). 
>   arguing about this, I want to make the point clear; do
> you guys think
>  that those terrible translations on some OSS(e.g.Linux, some guys
>  mentioned) are done on purpose? Do you guys think the translators on
>  those projects are nothing but fools? You can always do much better 
As for me, I
always respect people, but if they have come to such a
situation, then they probably have done some errors during their work. (And
I'm not saying I know everything how to avoid this -- no, but with support
of other people I want to overcome this).

>   than them? NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Those translators try
> to translate as
>  far as they can, but they fail to make good translations because of
>  miss, lacking of experience, etc... So, those who noticed that the
>  translations are mess, they are (at least partially) potentially better
>  translators than the main-translator who're working on the projects. 
Absolutely
right.

>   But why those "messy" translations are left
> as they are? In most cases
>  I think, it's because those users don't report the matter but just
>  complain:"the translation is a mess!!!". Hmm, what's lines the claimers
>  and the testers? I believe it's whether they report what they found and
>  or propose the solutions or not. Yeah, it's a quite important problem.
>  There're more and more potential testers all over the world but most of
>  the software vendors(not only the OSS, but also the proprietary vendors
>  I think) are just cutting them off and categorize they are "claimers".
>  What a wasteful loss! Anyway, I think you guys agree on the point that
>  if there are more contributers, things turn to better states. Of course,
>  I don't mean that the state that everyone have unlimited access on CVS
>  is great. It's clear that it'll cause a catastrophe. No review, no rule,
>  no order, no peace:) Well, obeying the opensource bazzar model, it's
>  quite natural to try on taking the so-called "claimers" into the
>  project as "testers" and/or "reviewers". So I propose the
> above(about
>  the ROS iself):
>  why don't you put a "bug/translation report" button next to the
>  minimize/maximize button on all dialogs/windows shown on ROS for a
>  "tester edition" or something? I'm not sure but I think some Unix'
>  -= skip =- 
I don't know how other people likes this, but for now unfortunately
I think
it's not very suitablel. Despite ROS is just technically can't do this (e.g.
lack of TCP/IP) - but even if we can, imagine very common situation - ROS
bugchecks arfter user have tried to run some application. And what to do? No
dialogs, nothing except for the blue text-screen showing stack trace.
Or another error example --- Quake-II is shown as bottom-up. User can go to
Bugzilla on the website and report this error. Or can click on that 'report
bug' button (unfamiliar to Windows user at all, and testers should know
bugzilla already, with these buttons) and still write the same text, and
send it using ROS (when it becomes mature enough). In this case bug-report
button is more suitable, but I still think it doesn't worth implementing it
yet.


>   I'm not writing this massive messy unrecognizable
> English mail because
>  I've accidentally had this idea, but I've seen the terrible state of
>  softwares/OS's and thought how to make them better over times. For
>  instance, KDE stripped away the Japanese locale from their release
>  because it was lacking of quality and quantity, in spite of they have
>  great system to coodinate translations. (Well, it's partially solved
>  problem now, as the tragic state became a article on slashdot-jp and
>  eventually many people noticed the problem, proposed to help them.)
>  Then, it's clear that the same problem'll happen on ReactOS. I'm almost
>  sure. So we should expand the bazzar model to user-land. It'll cause a
>  few problems but the benefits are countless. 
My POV on this is rather similar - if
we can't do good translation right
now - better not do it at all, but wait until there are enough translators.

>   It's still a "draft idea", there might
> be some issues I'm not awared of. 
Every idea is arguable, and in arguing the
truth is.

>   But I'd like to repeat; remember, many users
> complain the terrible
>  quality of translation but curerntly, most of them just complain,
>  overlook, and spread bad image of those softwares, but don't report and
>  try to make them better. It'll be a great help if we can take them into
>  the project as testers. 
hmm.. I think if the translation is really bad, then really
a lot of people
will notice that. And if someone is spreading the bad image of the software,
it might be the one who doesn't like that software at all, translation is
just an excuse :-) (joke)

>   Any comments are appreciated.
>  Regards, and thanks for reading,
>  Masahiro. 
I really appreciate people writing such letters - it improves the quality of
the work very much!

With the best regards,
Aleksey Bragin.

[M.Taguchi]

Rick, James, and Aleksey, thanks for your comments.

>   James Pritchard <jnpritchard(a)btopenworld.com>
> (2004/02/17 23:56:35)
>  I like this idea, it will encourage testers/users to get involved with
>  reporting problems.
>  But as is said, we need a working TCP/IP networking system before it
>  will work.
>  I think pressing the button could do 1 of 2 things. Either start a web
>  browser window that loads bugzilla or our own problem tracker; or it
>  launches a little app that asks a few questions. It would be passed the
>  calling apps name and version etc when it is executed. The all the app
>  needs is space for the reporters name, email and a box for a description
>  of the problem. The most important thing is to keep it simple. 
Thanks. I think the
latter's the better, I'll explain the why later.

>   As for how the translations are done. There should
> definatly be a stage
>  of review/evaluation in my opinion.
>  So the translators submit translations to a coordinator for each
>  language that checks them before passing them onto Aleksey for
>  committing to CVS. 
Yes, it should be; as long as the language have at least two
translators.
I'll also mention about this above as a reply to Aleksey.



>   "Aleksey Bragin"
> <aleksey(a)studiocerebral.com> (2004/02/18 00:56:22)
> >   I read the discussion on translation on this list
> > and thought that
> >  almost the same problem as other OSS have'll happen on ROS translation,
> >  too. IMO, you can handle those languages which have many translators
> >  easily(in this case, German, Dutch, and some other western languages). 
>  I may sound
> obvious but my point is to not let this happen. 
Well, every translation coodinator
wills to do so, but unfortunately, it's
quite difficult matter to deal with. I'll also explain about this on the
later paragraph. (Don't take me wrong! I'm not saying that you're not capable
to take the role or something.)

> >   If
> > there're strange translations, they are easy to be found and fixed.
> >  When there's a argument about translation, it's also solved easily; you
> >  can vote or do anything you like. But on the languages which have few
> >  translators, the circumstances'll be definitively different. Before 
>  Yes, I
> agree with you --- if a language have only one translator -- than I'd
>  better postpone the translation until we have at least two, who can review
>  each other's work. Otherwise the situation you're describing will certainly
>  happen. (Replace 'at least two' with 'at least n number of people' -
> where n
>  >= 2). 
So, will the users who can only understand their own languages make to
wait
for the appearance of another translator despite there're already translations
ready? Well, a bit evil question;) It's not the real point that I want to
discuss here.

> >   <snip;
> > refer the former mail> 
>  I don't know how other people likes this, but for now
> unfortunately I think
>  it's not very suitablel. Despite ROS is just technically can't do this (e.g.
>  lack of TCP/IP) - but even if we can, imagine very common situation - ROS
>  bugchecks arfter user have tried to run some application. And what to do? No
>  dialogs, nothing except for the blue text-screen showing stack trace.
>  Or another error example --- Quake-II is shown as bottom-up. User can go to
>  Bugzilla on the website and report this error. Or can click on that 'report
>  bug' button (unfamiliar to Windows user at all, and testers should know
>  bugzilla already, with these buttons) and still write the same text, and
>  send it using ROS (when it becomes mature enough). In this case bug-report
>  button is more suitable, but I still think it doesn't worth implementing it
>  yet. 
Well, unfortunately, I think you and James have missed the point.
I'm not suggesting to implement the feature to mainly enhance
"testers'"
comfort on reporting bugs, but to make the general users into the testers.
I asked the admin about the number of ID's registered on reactos.com, and
the answer was 551 atm. 550, twenty times smaller than the number of
reactos-0.2.0 ISO image downloads. (Strictly, comparing these numbers might
be nonsense, because about 10% of the registered users have "used" the account
to report-bug/post-on-forum or something, on the other hand, not all people
who have downloaded the ISO should've tried on it.) Then, let's use the number
for explanation; 1/20 of the users've registered on reactos.com, 19/20 users
didn't. General users don't like registering on the site only to report a bug
or comment on translation. They want themselves to be anonymouse, we should
grant the fact. Some of you may suspect the anonymity mess things up to dumb.
But AFAIK, it's not true. Some Japanese forums are running under almost full
anonymity, most of the users post with default name (Imagine the situation;
most of the users on slashdot post their comments as Anonymouse Coward.) Of
course there're noise, but most of the users wisely ignore them. I think we
can adapt this model on bug-reports(tho I must admit that there's a cultual
diffence between eastern countries(now especially about Japanese) and the
western countries). The number of anonymouse users who complained about some
features/translation, it'll help developers/translators to make priority-based
well-constructed TODO list, because it's something like a "vote and/or comments
about enhancement". At least for the translation, it's a speed/quality tradeoff,
you know. I guess you(Aleksey)'ll consider much about quality rather than
quantity. So, the well-constructed TODO list is the must, because the
translation'll take much time and consideration; I mean, you should translate
following the context and you can't do it well without previewing the messages
in the applications.


Then, please take a look at KDE's i18n process(sorry if you've already read).
They have about five years of knowhow which are well-documented as kBabel, FAQ,
and tutorial. I saw many problem they dealed with on the process of i18n.
They'll be a great help on ROS i18n/l10n.
http://i18n.kde.org/
*Note*
even now, even they have average of tens of translators/language, 1/3 of the
languages are at enough quality on GUI stuff. See the chart below:
 http://i18n.kde.org/stats/gui/HEAD/index.php
On the other hand, about documents:
 http://i18n.kde.org/stats/doc/HEAD/
.......well, let's forget about the documents. They can't be simply translated
as same as the GUI stuff(there are numbers of unofficial documents).


> >   But I'd
> > like to repeat; remember, many users complain the terrible
> >  quality of translation but curerntly, most of them just complain,
> >  overlook, and spread bad image of those softwares, but don't report and
> >  try to make them better. It'll be a great help if we can take them into
> >  the project as testers. 
>  hmm.. I think if the translation is really bad, then
> really a lot of people
>  will notice that. And if someone is spreading the bad image of the software,
>  it might be the one who doesn't like that software at all, translation is
>  just an excuse :-) (joke) 
hehe, true.


Regards, Masahiro.

[Mark IJbema]

On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 07:34:25PM +0300, Aleksey Bragin wrote:
>         Mark IJbema Dutch mark(a)ijbema.xs4all.nl 
affirmative :) though i have very little time at the moment :( but
enough to translate i think. I assume you write some guide on what to
do, and how to document translating (concerning word choices etc).

Mark

[Mark IJbema]

On Mon, Feb 16, 2004 at 07:34:25PM +0300, Aleksey Bragin wrote:
>           Hello,
>  the time for ReactOS website to become multilanguage is coming, and actually is rather
> near :-)
>  
>  So, to start, we need to gather a team of translators for every language.
>  As an initial attempt, I searched the ReactOS maillist archives, and found the following
> people are (were?) willing to do the ReactOS translation.
>  
>  Here is the list: 
Oh, i forgot in my other mail, please check the forum, in several posts
people volunteered...

Mark

[larss]

I could be useful on the italian translation

Federico
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Aleksey Bragin 
  To: ros-general(a)reactos.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 5:34 PM
  Subject: [ros-general] Translators ARE needed (HTML email)


          Hello,
  the time for ReactOS website to become multilanguage is coming, and actually is rather
near :-)

  So, to start, we need to gather a team of translators for every language.
  As an initial attempt, I searched the ReactOS maillist archives, and found the following
people are (were?) willing to do the ReactOS translation.

  Here is the list:
        Name Languages E-Mail 
        Rick Langschultz 1) French absleadcoder(a)cox.net 
       2) Spanish  
       3) Irish Gaelic  
       4) Manx Gaelic  
        Mikhail Y. Zvyozdochkin Russian mzvyozd(a)narod.ru 
        Waldo Alvarez Spanish wac(a)ghost.matcom.uh.cu 
        Alexander Ciobanu 1) Romanian alex(a)prodidactica.md 
       2) Russian  
        Filip Navara Czech xnavara(a)volny.cz 
        Bjorn Fischer German thebear80(a)gmx.net 
        Mark IJbema Dutch mark(a)ijbema.xs4all.nl 
        Lorenzo Italian garbage(a)loz.it 
        mtg Japanese mtg(a)ce.wakwak.com 
        tmtsac(a)hotmail.com 
        Oliwer French oliwer(a)free.fr 



  This list is a very preliminary one, since actually I haven't asked anyone from this
list if he really wants to do the translation now, except for Oliwer, who already sent me
an email regarding his English -> French translation skills.

  If anyone has changed their mind since they post to ros-general/ros-kernel --- let me
know, and I will remove you from this list.

  So far we have this (hope line wrap doesn't harm this, in any case I will repost the
updated versions of these tables in a better format later):
        Czech Dutch French Gaelic (Irish) Gaelic (Manx) German Italian Japanese Romanian
Russian Spanish 
        Navara IJbema Oliwer Langschultz Langschultz Fischer Lorenzo mtg Ciobanu Bragin
Langschultz 
       (GvG ?) Langschultz       Ciobanu  
               Zvyozdochkin  


  We have a good situation in Dutch (IJbema can translate, and GvG can approve --- ? ),
French, and Russian (we may have even another man here - Semyon Novikov) languages.
  But certainly for a start, at least one people per language is enough, though two are
highly preferable.


  I will post translation rules and guideline here later, and actually I am going to start
preparing the stuff for translation.


  With the best regards,
  Aleksey Bragin.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
  ros-general mailing list
  ros-general(a)reactos.com
  http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general

[KJK::Hyperion]

At 11.15 17/02/2004, you wrote:
>  I could be useful on the italian translation 
I reserve myself the right to bitch endle*ahem* quality-control the Italian 
translation. See you all on the Wiki, gentlemen

PS: what about setting up translation mailing lists?

[Aleksey Bragin]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "KJK::Hyperion" <noog(a)libero.it>
To: <ros-general(a)reactos.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2004 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: R: [ros-general] Translators ARE needed (HTML email)

>   PS: what about setting up translation mailing lists? 
I also vote for this.


WBR,
Aleksey Bragin.

[Cao Cao]

Hi,

I would help with Chinese.

Regards,
Cao


Aleksey Bragin wrote:

>   Hello,
>  the time for ReactOS website to become multilanguage is coming, and 
>  actually is rather near :-)
>  So, to start, we need to gather a team of translators for every language.
>  As an initial attempt, I searched the ReactOS maillist archives, and 
>  found the following people are (were?) willing to do the ReactOS 
>  translation.
>  Here is the list:
>  *Name* 	*Languages* 	*E-Mail*
>  Rick Langschultz 	1) French 	absleadcoder(a)cox.net 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	2) Spanish 	
>
>  	3) Irish Gaelic 	
>
>  	4) Manx Gaelic 	
>  Mikhail Y. Zvyozdochkin 	Russian 	mzvyozd(a)narod.ru 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Waldo Alvarez 	Spanish 	wac(a)ghost.matcom.uh.cu 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Alexander Ciobanu 	1) Romanian 	alex(a)prodidactica.md 
>  <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	2) Russian 	
>  Filip Navara 	Czech 	xnavara(a)volny.cz <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Bjo"rn Fischer 	German 	thebear80(a)gmx.net <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Mark IJbema 	Dutch 	mark(a)ijbema.xs4all.nl <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Lorenzo 	Italian 	garbage(a)loz.it <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  mtg 	Japanese 	mtg(a)ce.wakwak.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  	
>  	tmtsac(a)hotmail.com <mailto:[e-mail]>
>  Oliwer 	French 	oliwer(a)free.fr <mailto:[e-mail]>
>
>  This list is a very preliminary one, since actually I haven't asked 
>  anyone from this list if he really wants to do the translation now, 
>  except for Oliwer, who already sent me an email regarding his English 
>  -> French translation skills.
>  If anyone has changed their mind since they post to 
>  ros-general/ros-kernel --- let me know, and I will remove you from 
>  this list.
>  So far we have this (hope line wrap doesn't harm this, in any case I 
>  will repost the updated versions of these tables in a better format 
>  later):
>  *Czech* 	*Dutch* 	*French* 	*Gaelic (Irish)* 	*Gaelic (Manx)* 
>  *German* 	*Italian* 	*Japanese* 	*Romanian* 	*Russian* 	*Spanish*
>  Navara 	IJbema 	Oliwer 	Langschultz 	Langschultz 	Fischer 	Lorenzo 
>  mtg 	Ciobanu 	Bragin 	Langschultz
>
>  	(GvG ?) 	Langschultz 	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	Ciobanu 	
>
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	
>  	Zvyozdochkin 	
>
>  We have a good situation in Dutch (IJbema can translate, and GvG can 
>  approve --- ? ), French, and Russian (we may have even another man 
>  here - Semyon Novikov) languages.
>  But certainly for a start, at least one people per language is enough, 
>  though two are highly preferable.
>  I will post translation rules and guideline here later, and actually I 
>  am going to start preparing the stuff for translation.
>  With the best regards,
>  Aleksey Bragin.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ros-general mailing list
> ros-general(a)reactos.com
> http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
>

[Jasper van de Gronde]

I wouldn't mind helping with the English->Dutch translation.

Aleksey Bragin wrote:

>           Hello,
>  the time for ReactOS website to become multilanguage is coming, and 
>  actually is rather near :-)
>  ...........

[Robert Köpferl]

I took initiative and thus have made
this http://mok.lvcm.com/cgi-bin/reactos/roswiki?Translations
wiki-page. I tried to include most of the people i collected in this list.

However all, go there and correct your entries and provide additional 
for example an email adress or a whole wikipage for your own.


Be awre that editing the wiki may produce conflicts.

Please add me to the Dutch list:
Emil Jacobs
alias: Q-collective

Grtz

Emil

Robert Köpferl wrote:

>   I took initiative and thus have made
>  this http://mok.lvcm.com/cgi-bin/reactos/roswiki?Translations
>  wiki-page. I tried to include most of the people i collected in this 
>  list.
>
>  However all, go there and correct your entries and provide additional 
>  for example an email adress or a whole wikipage for your own.
>
>
>  Be awre that editing the wiki may produce conflicts.
>  _______________________________________________
>  ros-general mailing list
>  ros-general(a)reactos.com
>  http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
>

[João Jerónimo Barata de Oliveira]

>  
>  But certainly for a start, at least one people per language is enough, 
>  though two are highly preferable. 

I would like to translate into Portugese (of Portugal)...

But before I want to know what level of knowns I need, in order to 
translate, for example, the ReactOS itself... Do I need to know C 
programing, or I can use any other method?
I also don't know any portuguese who use ReactOS! Would be the 
translation usefull? I will also be alone because of the same reason.

João Jerónimo

[Filip Navara]

João Jerónimo Barata de Oliveira wrote:

>   But before I want to know what level of knowns I need,
> in order to 
>  translate, for example, the ReactOS itself... Do I need to know C 
>  programing, or I can use any other method? 
You don't need to know C to translate the ReactOS itself. Take a look at 
reactos/ntoskrnl/ntoskrnl.mc and reactos/lib/shell32/shell32_En.rc for 
the two formats that are currently used for message that will be translated.

>   I also don't know any portuguese who use ReactOS!
> Would be the 
>  translation usefull? I will also be alone because of the same reason. 
Well, you will not be alone! There's already one Portugese guy (Paulo 
Correa Silva) that wants to help with translating to your native 
langauge. ;-)

>   João Jerónimo 
Regards,
Filip

[Robert Köpferl]

João Jerónimo Barata de Oliveira schrieb:


>   I would like to translate into Portugese (of
> Portugal)... 
Ive put you on list at 
http://mok.lvcm.com/cgi-bin/reactos/roswiki?Translations
>   
>  But before I want to know what level of knowns I need, in order to 
>  translate, for example, the ReactOS itself... Do I need to know C 
>  programing, or I can use any other method? 
No its just editing either HTML files or resource files wich are to be 
understood within 5 min

>   I also don't know any portuguese who use ReactOS!
> Would be the 
>  translation usefull? I will also be alone because of the same reason.
>  
>  João Jerónimo
>  _______________________________________________
>  ros-general mailing list
>  ros-general(a)reactos.com
>  http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
>

[João Jerónimo Barata de Oliveira]

Robert Köpferl wrote:

>   João Jerónimo Barata de Oliveira schrieb:
>
> >   I would like to translate into Portugese (of
> > Portugal)... 
>
>  Ive put you on list at 
>  http://mok.lvcm.com/cgi-bin/reactos/roswiki?Translations 

put the following mail instead:

j_j_b_o AT sapo DOT pt

in order to avoid that other people think that I'm Brasilian!

João Jerónimo

[Robert Köpferl]

>   
>  put the following mail instead: 
you can edit it on your own. Everyone is allowed to edit. Just find the link
>   
>  j_j_b_o AT sapo DOT pt
>  
>  in order to avoid that other people think that I'm Brasilian!
>  
>  João Jerónimo
>  _______________________________________________
>  ros-general mailing list
>  ros-general(a)reactos.com
>  http://reactos.com/mailman/listinfo/ros-general
>

[João Jerónimo Barata de Oliveira]

Robert Köpferl wrote:

>  
>
> >  
> >  put the following mail instead: 
>
>  you can edit it on your own. Everyone is allowed to edit. Just find 
>  the link 
OK...


PS: tomorrow, I'll go for some holydays, so I won't be able to answer 
nor to read the ML, Unless by chance, if i can get access to the Internet!

João Jerónimo